Draft Expert ModernArtillery 2022 Draft Thread

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LemmingMaster

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Slightly different topic, are there any State League tall defenders over your side of the country that are worth picking up for the mid season draft? (Thinking about a guy that can defend against the monster talls.
 

ModernArtillery

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Slightly different topic, are there any State League tall defenders over your side of the country that are worth picking up for the mid season draft? (Thinking about a guy that can defend against the monster talls.
I think it depends on whether you're looking for a stop-gap or a long term solution. There's a handful of key defenders in the SANFL with AFL experience. If we're talking strictly those that can handle the monster talls, Connor Ballenden is playing ruck, but he could probably go down back. Sam Durdin from Glenelg (previously on North's list) and Oscar Clavarino (previously on St Kilda's list) could be options. All three have had long enough in the AFL system that you'd think clubs would have a fair idea of their ceiling, and so while they could probably be a short term depth solution, I'd say they're probably not the long term answer.
 

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I think it depends on whether you're looking for a stop-gap or a long term solution. There's a handful of key defenders in the SANFL with AFL experience. If we're talking strictly those that can handle the monster talls, Connor Ballenden is playing ruck, but he could probably go down back. Sam Durdin from Glenelg (previously on North's list) and Oscar Clavarino (previously on St Kilda's list) could be options. All three have had long enough in the AFL system that you'd think clubs would have a fair idea of their ceiling, and so while they could probably be a short term depth solution, I'd say they're probably not the long term answer.
Ballenden played as a key defender in our reserves in his last year.

Very good third man intercept marker and elite kick out of defence.

But he struggled with one on one defence and was easily out bodied by smaller opponents.

Would love to see him get a second go though.
 

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Mutineer

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I think it depends on whether you're looking for a stop-gap or a long term solution. There's a handful of key defenders in the SANFL with AFL experience. If we're talking strictly those that can handle the monster talls, Connor Ballenden is playing ruck, but he could probably go down back. Sam Durdin from Glenelg (previously on North's list) and Oscar Clavarino (previously on St Kilda's list) could be options. All three have had long enough in the AFL system that you'd think clubs would have a fair idea of their ceiling, and so while they could probably be a short term depth solution, I'd say they're probably not the long term answer.
Sturt's Daniel Fahey-Sparks seems to get used all over the joint even in the Ruck but I've always thought his best spot was CHB, good athleticism, good closing speed and agility for a tall and an impressive leap. I reckon if he was settled on defence he'd be worth a look by an AFL club. Handy chop out on the Ruck if required too.
 

Crow till I die

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Sturt's Daniel Fahey-Sparks seems to get used all over the joint even in the Ruck but I've always thought his best spot was CHB, good athleticism, good closing speed and agility for a tall and an impressive leap. I reckon if he was settled on defence he'd be worth a look by an AFL club. Handy chop out on the Ruck if required too.
Just checking out these threads and saw your comment. I actually disagree - Fahey-Sparks can really take a good contested grab and knows where the goals are. I have seen him play live plenty and I really think he could crack it as a forward at AFL level as he is very mobile and strong in the contest and as you say can pinch hit in ruck
 

Mutineer

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Just checking out these threads and saw your comment. I actually disagree - Fahey-Sparks can really take a good contested grab and knows where the goals are. I have seen him play live plenty and I really think he could crack it as a forward at AFL level as he is very mobile and strong in the contest and as you say can pinch hit in ruck
Opinions be like ********..

No chance he gets a crack at AFL as a forward, as a tall defender that can chop out in ruck would be his only chance and probably a slim chance at that.
 

ModernArtillery

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Ballenden played as a key defender in our reserves in his last year.

Very good third man intercept marker and elite kick out of defence.

But he struggled with one on one defence and was easily out bodied by smaller opponents.

Would love to see him get a second go though.
He does seem to have some tools to work with, but that competitiveness in the contest is a critical piece. Without it, I'd expect opportunities at the next level to be limited, particularly if he was being considered in defence.

Sturt's Daniel Fahey-Sparks seems to get used all over the joint even in the Ruck but I've always thought his best spot was CHB, good athleticism, good closing speed and agility for a tall and an impressive leap. I reckon if he was settled on defence he'd be worth a look by an AFL club. Handy chop out on the Ruck if required too.
DFS has been thereabouts for a while. He always felt like he had a real rawness to him, like there was some genuine untapped potential. He's never truly won me over, but I see the intrigue with the athleticism and versatility.
 

ModernArtillery

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I just wanted to share some thoughts on Isaac Keeler, as I've seen some interesting discussion on the board as of late. I think he's going to be a fascinating case-study this year. We all have our own biases and Keeler ticks a lot of the 'stay away' boxes for me. It sucks being negative about a kid, but I think this is fair. Over the past two years, I've found he's often looked disinterested and lacked the competitiveness, motor and physicality that I really want to see from someone who should command an early selection. In years gone past, that would be enough for me and he'd probably find himself 35+ on my board.

Despite that, his talent is undeniable. 198cm, athletic, good skills, can cover the ground (if he wants too). There's not too many things lacking from a talent and athletic profile perspective, and that's why I'm hesitant to write him off.

Weighing up the talent vs competitiveness concerns makes this a great watch for me. I think I'll go with my gut but I'm very prepared to be wrong.
 

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I just wanted to share some thoughts on Isaac Keeler, as I've seen some interesting discussion on the board as of late. I think he's going to be a fascinating case-study this year. We all have our own biases and Keeler ticks a lot of the 'stay away' boxes for me. It sucks being negative about a kid, but I think this is fair. Over the past two years, I've found he's often looked disinterested and lacked the competitiveness, motor and physicality that I really want to see from someone who should command an early selection. In years gone past, that would be enough for me and he'd probably find himself 35+ on my board.

Despite that, his talent is undeniable. 198cm, athletic, good skills, can cover the ground (if he wants too). There's not too many things lacking from a talent and athletic profile perspective, and that's why I'm hesitant to write him off.

Weighing up the talent vs competitiveness concerns makes this a great watch for me. I think I'll go with my gut but I'm very prepared to be wrong.

this has been his issue for the last 2 years, he has the talent and skill, just lacks the desire to play at a high level regularly, when i have seen him play he reminds me of a young Paddy Ryder with his athleticism in the ruck and as a forward and his ability to play most roles well, but he seems to go through the motions rather than wanting to compete or dominate.
 

Smythe

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this has been his issue for the last 2 years, he has the talent and skill, just lacks the desire to play at a high level regularly, when i have seen him play he reminds me of a young Paddy Ryder with his athleticism in the ruck and as a forward and his ability to play most roles well, but he seems to go through the motions rather than wanting to compete or dominate.
He reminds me of a young Tyrone Vickery, had skills and at times could tear games apart at his level because of his size, but never translated and never looked like he could go beast mode in a game. Hope for his sake im wrong.
 

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Davo-27

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He reminds me of a young Tyrone Vickery, had skills and at times could tear games apart at his level because of his size, but never translated and never looked like he could go beast mode in a game. Hope for his sake im wrong.
if it doesnt click, he might end up being be a Tyrone Vickery.
 

Chris25

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I just wanted to share some thoughts on Isaac Keeler, as I've seen some interesting discussion on the board as of late. I think he's going to be a fascinating case-study this year. We all have our own biases and Keeler ticks a lot of the 'stay away' boxes for me. It sucks being negative about a kid, but I think this is fair. Over the past two years, I've found he's often looked disinterested and lacked the competitiveness, motor and physicality that I really want to see from someone who should command an early selection. In years gone past, that would be enough for me and he'd probably find himself 35+ on my board.

Despite that, his talent is undeniable. 198cm, athletic, good skills, can cover the ground (if he wants too). There's not too many things lacking from a talent and athletic profile perspective, and that's why I'm hesitant to write him off.

Weighing up the talent vs competitiveness concerns makes this a great watch for me. I think I'll go with my gut but I'm very prepared to be wrong.

I'll start by saying I'm a big Keeler fan. I have him well inside the top 10, and probably #1 on pure talent alone.

Yes, he has tended to drift in and out of games over the last 18 months. Is it an attitude thing? I personally don't think so. And not having a go at anyone on here, I don't think this is a fair criticism to make if you haven't watched him live (which I know you would have). You miss half the game just watching on a screen, don't see the unrewarded work or lack of work that goes on away from the ball.

In Keeler's case, I think he's supremely talented and that things have just tended to go his way - and this isn't uncommon in talented KPPs. It's often in their draft year that the two way game clicks and they realise what it takes to make it at the next level. I think he has shown improvement the last few games with his overall work rate. I believe he was sick ahead of the Round 6 game, but then had his two best performances in Rounds 7 and 8. And from what I've heard about him this year, I don't think motivation is an issue. And I don't think there's a lack of work or commitment off the field.

I suspect physicality won't ever be a feature of his game, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a lack of competitiveness. He has a laconic way about him in the way he moves, which I've found often highlights their quiet moments and mistakes - Jeremy Finlayson for example. Or Michael Johnson from Fremantle, he always drew the ire of some fans because of his casual style which highlighted his errors. If he was charging around he'd be noticed more, even if he wasn't getting any more touches or tackles. I just think his style can be misinterpreted as laziness. I'm really hoping he gets a chance to shine at the Champs because that will be the big test - I worry he'll be the forgotten player with Lemmey, Scully and Barnett. And if he's not given a genuine role to play, I worry these criticisms will only become further entrenched.

I think Keeler will be a frustrating player at times, and maybe he doesn't ever reach his full potential. But if he does, he could be the best player in the league. And for me, any concerns are yellow flags - not red. So he won't be leaving my top 10 any time soon.
 

ModernArtillery

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I'll start by saying I'm a big Keeler fan. I have him well inside the top 10, and probably #1 on pure talent alone.

Yes, he has tended to drift in and out of games over the last 18 months. Is it an attitude thing? I personally don't think so. And not having a go at anyone on here, I don't think this is a fair criticism to make if you haven't watched him live (which I know you would have). You miss half the game just watching on a screen, don't see the unrewarded work or lack of work that goes on away from the ball.

In Keeler's case, I think he's supremely talented and that things have just tended to go his way - and this isn't uncommon in talented KPPs. It's often in their draft year that the two way game clicks and they realise what it takes to make it at the next level. I think he has shown improvement the last few games with his overall work rate. I believe he was sick ahead of the Round 6 game, but then had his two best performances in Rounds 7 and 8. And from what I've heard about him this year, I don't think motivation is an issue. And I don't think there's a lack of work or commitment off the field.

I suspect physicality won't ever be a feature of his game, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a lack of competitiveness. He has a laconic way about him in the way he moves, which I've found often highlights their quiet moments and mistakes - Jeremy Finlayson for example. Or Michael Johnson from Fremantle, he always drew the ire of some fans because of his casual style which highlighted his errors. If he was charging around he'd be noticed more, even if he wasn't getting any more touches or tackles. I just think his style can be misinterpreted as laziness. I'm really hoping he gets a chance to shine at the Champs because that will be the big test - I worry he'll be the forgotten player with Lemmey, Scully and Barnett. And if he's not given a genuine role to play, I worry these criticisms will only become further entrenched.

I think Keeler will be a frustrating player at times, and maybe he doesn't ever reach his full potential. But if he does, he could be the best player in the league. And for me, any concerns are yellow flags - not red. So he won't be leaving my top 10 any time soon.
I think this perfectly captures the other side of the argument.

Just two points from me:

1. While I agree he's talented, I don't quite see the same ceiling. I have him a fair way off the King's and Naughton's of the world.

2. I think there's absolutely merit to the things you've said about his attitude/competitiveness. I'd just feel far more comfortable if that intensity and physicality was there. That doesn't make me right, just personal bias. Let's take Finlayson for example given you mentioned him and he's a current player. I think a greater level of physicality and intensity would make him far more consistent and raise his ceiling as a player. I'd say the same for Keeler.
 

Chris25

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It definitely comes down to how high you view the potential. Personally, I think he stacks up well with KPFs from the last couple of years. Thilthoroe, Ugle-Hagen, McDonald. I don’t think any of them are any more talented.

In my opinion, the other stuff will come. Maybe not for a few years still. And it is what sets apart the good from the great - like Finlayson who hasn’t taken that next step. But from a 17 year old KPP, give me a hard working pure talent over someone with good tackling pressure any day.
 

philthy05

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I think there’s a certain amount of risk with all draftees once you get past the first few names (like Jhye Clark who if he doesn’t end up being a gun footballer I’ll eat my shoes).

I would rather port for instance go after someone maybe a little safer who also has upside in the top ten…

But after that I think why not take the punt?

Once i get past about 10-15 names in this draft I start thinking well, this players good but it’s still a punt he turns out as you expect.

I’m really happy to take a punt on a kpp with keelers upside then.

If port ends up with a second draft pick and keelers available I’m very happy for my club to pick him.

I reckon there will be teams throughout the teens that need a player like keeler. Freo for one. Sydney.
 

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