NAB cup "glory" hurt us

[Stifler's mom]

IMO playing at a high level in Feb/March is pointless.

Winning such a meaningless preseason comp made our season too long and lets face it, our boys looked completely spent in the last month.

I know injuries were a major factor in the end result, but the run in the legs was not there.

Anyone else agree??

 

[Rustin Cohle]

No.

We won the NAB Cup because we were better than fifteen other teams this year. In fact, we didn't even play that well in our NAB Cup games if I remember correctly.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I don't think NAB cup was our problem, like Mick said we brought in too many underdone players and got too many injuries towards the end of the season was what derailed us.

You bring in underdone players and the fit players are the ones that have to lift and carry that load which ultimately tires them out.

 

[Ed D]

We didn't try and peak in the NAB cup and we were far from peaking IMO. We beat Essendon who were playing their best football and we had a heap of guys who weren't seen as being in our starting 22 playing that game.

It's the injuries and suspensions that caused some players to not have preseasons or get any continuity towards the end of the season that hurt us.

 

[Zahki]

We weren't trying to win the NAB Cup, we did because Collingwood was streets ahead of every other side back at the start of the year even going at 50%. We met Essendon in the final, doesn't exactly take our best footy to beat them.

 

[PieBeast]

We met Essendon in the final, doesn't exactly take our best footy to beat them.

Bullcrap, we needed it on ANZAC Day and if it wasn't for them sustaining injuries during the game would have needed it in the second clash.

Spin it whichever way you want people but the fact is our so much lauded fitness department didn't time our run all that well this year, even allowing for injuries and suspensions. Most of our wins during the second part of the year were fairly lackluster and our form dropped off even more in the finals when we've encountered quality opposition.

 

[Ed D]

Spin it whichever way you want people but the fact is our so much lauded fitness department didn't time our run all that well this year, even allowing for injuries and suspensions. Most of our wins during the second part of the year were fairly lackluster and our form dropped off even more in the finals when we've encountered quality opposition.

Now that is bullcrap. You can't say things like Shaw being suspended for 8 weeks up til the finals, Thomas missing 3 weeks going into the finals, Maxwell, Toovey and Dawes having hand injuries, Jolly having knee and groin complaints during the finals, Reid injuring his groin the first week of the finals...

...all that isn't something clubs fitness staff would be able to cover and win a GF against a top form side even if they knew it was going to happen.

 

[PieBeast]

Now that is bullcrap. You can't say things like Shaw being suspended for 8 weeks up til the finals, Thomas missing 3 weeks going into the finals, Maxwell, Toovey and Dawes having hand injuries, Jolly having knee and groin complaints during the finals, Reid injuring his groin the first week of the finals...

...all that isn't something clubs fitness staff would be able to cover and win a GF against a top form side even if they knew it was going to happen.

Mate , there's no hiding from the fact we haven't played our best football since half way through the season and that was way before most of the injuries have happened. We've struggled against carlton, scum kilda and Sydney, were flattered by a win against undermanned Hawthorn, got embarrassed in the last quarters in the games against Brisbane and third string Freo and managed to belt two second rate side, won't even mention rd 24. While all of this was happening the consensus on this board was "we'll come good when it matters", well guess what...we didn't and our form has completely deteriorated in the finals.

We were a reasonable chance to win the flag as late as second quarter yesterday and this entitles us to dissect every possible aspect of our loss and I simply believe not planning our run as well as last year was one of them.

 

[Ed D]

Mate , there's no hiding from the fact we haven't played our best football since half way through the season and that was way before most of the injuries have happened. We've struggled against carlton, scum kilda and Sydney, were flattered by a win against undermanned Hawthorn, got embarrassed in the last quarters in the games against Brisbane and third string Freo and managed to belt two second rate side, won't even mention rd 24. While all of this was happening the consensus on this board was "we'll come good when it matters", well guess what...we didn't and our form has completely deteriorated in the finals.

We were a reasonable chance to win the flag as late as second quarter yesterday and this entitles us to dissect every possible aspect of our loss and I simply believe not planning our run as well as last year was one of them.

Yeah, I know what you're saying, the fitness staff didn't have much to do with it though IMO. We just got screwed/screwed up at the wrong time and could never recover from it. You can cover or replace a few, but we had about 10+. N.Brown, Dick, Macaffer, Goldsack, Didak, Dawes, Shaw, Toovey, Maxwell, Thomas, Reid, Jolly, Beams, probably more too, they all had an effect on the GF in some way, either through not being available, not having good enough preparations, playing without fitness/match fitness or providing quality depth. We then served it up to the in form side of the competition for 3 quarters. IMO there wasn't much else we could do about it, certainly from a fitness/training point of view anyway.

 

[PieBeast]

Yeah, I know what you're saying, the fitness staff didn't have much to do with it though IMO. We just got screwed/screwed up at the wrong time and could never recover from it. You can cover or replace a few, but we had about 10+. N.Brown, Dick, Macaffer, Goldsack, Didak, Dawes, Shaw, Toovey, Maxwell, Thomas, Reid, Jolly, Beams, probably more too, they all had an effect on the GF in some way, either through not being available, not having good enough preparations, playing without fitness/match fitness or providing quality depth. We then served it up to the in form side of the competition for 3 quarters. IMO there wasn't much else we could do about it, certainly from a fitness/training point of view anyway.

Thats a fair assessment but knowing all that why didn't we rest a lot more players in meaningless games??????
And as I said the warning signs were on the wall way before the injuries hit.

 

[Markfs]

So are we blaming the pre season cup win or the fitness staff.... we really need to start this blame process scientifically...

just remember that there are 15 teams busting their guts to be as bad as the PIES...

 

[Shellz]

Don't think we can blame the nab cup. We barely worked up a sweat.

I think most of our injuries were structural (not due to bad conditioning) besides a dawes/didak calves. And three groins from one game!!! How unlucky can you be?!

 

[Ed D]

Thats a fair assessment but knowing all that why didn't we rest a lot more players in meaningless games??????
And as I said the warning signs were on the wall way before the injuries hit.

We did rest players throughout the season when players had niggles and we rested players in the final 3 rounds or so. Didak is the main one who was poor all year and we tried to get games into him, but even then he got injured during the year and missed games.

The problem was at the end of the season when we had players injured and suspended just before the finals or going into the finals. There's nothing you can do about that because you need to play your best side plus you need guys with match fitness and form. Do you rest a guy like Reid going into the Hawthorn game when he's just had 2 weeks off and passes the fitness tests? How can you get match fitness into guys who can't play through injury or suspension? Or guys like Dawes who lost touch from being out 7 weeks?

There's just things that sometimes happen and you can't do much about it. Unfortunately we had a lot of that at the wrong time, and we did a good job dealing with it, but it was too much.

 

[larrikan]

Look we won the 2010 flag by playing an extra week so our pre season break was already 4 or 5 weeks less than most clubs. Then MM, Swanny and Reid were involved in the Irish series. The NAB cup ( well, I would rather win rotating youngsters and not travel interstate and country to play on crap grounds in the heat ). This season was 24 rounds ( 24 training weeks ) and byes. All in all an unusual situation for the sports science/fitness department.


Thrown in suspensions and injuries and we are all over the place.

Next year the season is back to normal.

 

[THATSGOLD]

It certainly made it feel like a bloody long season.. i'd be happy to see us go out early next year!

 

[krisholio14]

It's not the Nab Cup at all.

What happened this year is the same thing that happened to us in 2008.

As the hunted, all the sports science in the world cannot measure how much harder you are going to have to work to remain ahead of the competition. You're in uncharted waters.

So like us, you ended up using too many petrol tickets in June giving mediocre teams a beating rather than making sure you had enough left to get to the end of the season.

How do you know how to manage your load correctly? That's what made Brisbane's three flags in a row impressive. They were able to guess the measurements correctly three years running. That's what makes consecutive flags so hard to win.

On Saturday, you had a lot of sore and tired blokes running around and in the end, that's what's cost you this year, as it did us in 2008.

I think with the Mick saga out of the way, and now knowing exactly how you need to pace yourself through the season to finish the job, you will do exactly that and bounce back from this loss and win it next year.

 

[entourage]

Agreed that NAB had nothing to do with it.

It really means nothing, and by nothing i mean it means sweet FA if you win it, and sweet FA if you bow out. Port won it and the Premiership in one year..Besides, we made the grand final for gods sake. We lost, tough, we should've could've and would've won but we didn't. We weren't good enough on the day and that is why we lost. We had a number of injuries which certainly contributed to the loss, but mores than anything we were simply outplayed.

If we'd made the lower end of the 8, i might be more obliged to consider it's the NAB cup's fault. But we were top of the ladder at the end of the year. We made the GF, and we were in it up until the last qtr. If the players can get that far, yet fall to pieces in 30 minutes of footy because of 'how far we went in the NAB cup', then i say release every single player...you know what I'm saying?

No way in hell is that the case.

 

[MarkT2]

We played kids and won the NAB Cup at half rat power. Hope we do the same in 2012. We didn't lose the GF becasue of what happened in February and March, we lost because of what happened in July and August. Shaw and Thomas' suspensions and injuries to Dawes, Ried and Jolly cost us dearly. Apart from that we actually were beated by an awesome side for the last 40 minutes of the season.

 

[Ed D]

It's not the Nab Cup at all.

What happened this year is the same thing that happened to us in 2008.

As the hunted, all the sports science in the world cannot measure how much harder you are going to have to work to remain ahead of the competition. You're in uncharted waters.

So like us, you ended up using too many petrol tickets in June giving mediocre teams a beating rather than making sure you had enough left to get to the end of the season.

How do you know how to manage your load correctly? That's what made Brisbane's three flags in a row impressive. They were able to guess the measurements correctly three years running. That's what makes consecutive flags so hard to win.

On Saturday, you had a lot of sore and tired blokes running around and in the end, that's what's cost you this year, as it did us in 2008.

I think with the Mick saga out of the way, and now knowing exactly how you need to pace yourself through the season to finish the job, you will do exactly that and bounce back from this loss and win it next year.

It's not even that. The amount of injuries and suspensions in the 2nd half of the year was huge. I have no doubts we'll bounce back but most of it came down to bad luck. How often do players in teams break their knuckles? We had 3 players break theirs from round 15 onwards!

 

[blaze036]

The money won from winning the nab cup is only GOOD for the club... we didnt play at a high lvl during it we just were the best of the teams who were semi trying

 

[Old Spice]

As the title suggests, Stiflers not saying it cost us, but hurt us.

Mick was pretty keen to go in with as full a list as possible with a view to winning it and that did make the season extra long as the hunted in a 24 round season. I understand Mick often deferred to Buttifant, but like some interference with draft choices, I wonder if Mick over-ruled him.

While it was only 22 rounds, 24 is a lot in a season that begins with the NAB Cup. We did play young players in the NAB Cup, but I'm pretty certain we made a claim that we wanted to use the NAB Cup as a builder to the season proper. That could mean form and conditioning, but it could also have meant glory and cups.

I can't find the team sheets, but there is no doubt in my mind we phased out players very quickly in the NAB Cup who looked good in the 1st or 2nd round, such as Bolton and Keeffe.

Sure, the best grounds are occupied by NAB Cup winners, so there's an injury logic at hand, but the same logic applies to the NAB Cup in general. The more games you play, the greater likeliehood of injury or soreness. To my mind you have to strike the balance between senior game time and youth development. Perhaps we didn't get that quite right.

In any case, it's an entirely sensible question to discuss.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I just can't wait for the NAB cup to see our youngsters play. Watching Shae Mac kick his first goal was bliss.

 

[Ed D]

This was the team that played:

Alan Didak
Alan Toovey
Andrew Krakouer
Ben Johnson
Brent Macaffer
Cameron Wood
Chris Dawes
Chris Tarrant
Dale Thomas
Dane Swan
Darren Jolly (subbed)
Dayne Beams
Heath Shaw
Heritier O'Brien
Jarryd Blair (sub)
John McCarthy
Lachlan Keeffe
Leigh Brown
Leon Davis
Luke Ball
Scott Pendlebury
Sharrod Wellingham
Simon Buckley
Steele Sidebottom
Travis Cloke
Tyson Goldsack

It was the first time we'd played with a relatively strong side, which makes sense given it was out last game before round 1.

 

[Old Spice]

This was the team that played:

Alan Didak
Alan Toovey
Andrew Krakouer
Ben Johnson
Brent Macaffer
Cameron Wood
Chris Dawes
Chris Tarrant
Dale Thomas
Dane Swan
Darren Jolly (subbed)
Dayne Beams
Heath Shaw
Heritier O'Brien
Jarryd Blair (sub)
John McCarthy
Lachlan Keeffe
Leigh Brown
Leon Davis
Luke Ball
Scott Pendlebury
Sharrod Wellingham
Simon Buckley
Steele Sidebottom
Travis Cloke
Tyson Goldsack

It was the first time we'd played with a relatively strong side, which makes sense given it was out last game before round 1.

Can you list rounds 2 and 3 Ed?

 

[Ed D]

Can you list rounds 2 and 3 Ed?

Round 2:

Alan Toovey
Alex Fasolo
Andrew Krakouer
Ben Johnson
Ben Reid
Ben Sinclair
Brent Macaffer
Cameron Wood
Chris Tarrant
Dale Thomas
Dane Swan
Dayne Beams
Heath Shaw
Heritier O'Brien
Jye Bolton (subbed)
Lachlan Keeffe
Leigh Brown
Leon Davis
Luke Ball
Nick Maxwell
Scott Reed
Seamus McNamara
Sharrod Wellingham
Simon Buckley
Tom Young (sub)
Travis Cloke


Round 3:

Alan Toovey
Alex Fasolo
Andrew Krakouer
Ben Johnson
Ben Reid
Ben Sinclair
Cameron Wood
Chris Dawes
Dale Thomas
Dane Swan
Darren Jolly
Dayne Beams
Heritier O'Brien
Jarryd Blair
John McCarthy
Jye Bolton
Lachlan Keeffe
Leon Davis
Nick Maxwell (subbed)
Scott Pendlebury
Seamus McNamara
Sharrod Wellingham
Simon Buckley
Steele Sidebottom
Tom Hunter (subbed)
Travis Cloke