Certified Legendary Thread Nathan Freeman Updates

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Strahany said:
Obviously we do not have any of the medical reports for Freeman, but if the club are to be taken on their word, which is that Freeman was experiencing "hamstring awareness" during his games, then it could well be the case that it's "between the ears". The mental component of rehab cannot be understated, particularly for athletes since they rely on their bodies for their career and are also under perceived time constraints.

For all we know, Freeman's "hamstring awareness" could've been simple apprehension to push himself due to fear, could've been some pain from lactic acid build up that he perceived to be potential damage, or he could've been on the verge of re-injury and correctly backed off. We don't know, but I suspect that it is unlikely that these setbacks were physical in nature, due to the clear scans (again, this is assuming that the club has been forthright). If it weren't mental, then either the club has been playing funny buggers with the released information, or Freeman has some large issues pertaining to his connective tissue.
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When somebody describes "hamstring awareness", all it means is that they could feel tight or sore. Doesn't necessarily mean there's an injury. Do you realise how many AFL players get precautionary scans because of muscle awareness? It doesn't mean Nathan is struggling mentally.
Most average joes would experience hamstring awareness after a decent run.
There is no conspiracy with Freezers hamstrings. I have written since we acquired him that we had to rebuild his whole body, especially hamstrings, buttocks, hips and quads. We also had to change his running style so that less stress was being handled by his hamstrings.
As much as we all want Freezer to have played senior footy this year, it has been all about re-jigging his body through different training methods this season. There were always going to be a setback or two, the fact he's stringing together games of footy now is a credit to both him and the medicos.
His "poor form" since coming back may be just that. Let's not rush things now.
 
Moorabbin Ghost said:
When somebody describes "hamstring awareness", all it means is that they could feel tight or sore. Doesn't necessarily mean there's an injury. Do you realise how many AFL players get precautionary scans because of muscle awareness? It doesn't mean Nathan is struggling mentally.
Most average joes would experience hamstring awareness after a decent run.
There is no conspiracy with Freezers hamstrings. I have written since we acquired him that we had to rebuild his whole body, especially hamstrings, buttocks, hips and quads. We also had to change his running style so that less stress was being handled by his hamstrings.
As much as we all want Freezer to have played senior footy this year, it has been all about re-jigging his body through different training methods this season. There were always going to be a setback or two, the fact he's stringing together games of footy now is a credit to both him and the medicos.
His "poor form" since coming back may be just that. Let's not rush things now.
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I believe he is struggling mentally and who can blame him.
 

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The_Steadier said:
If the saints start talking about teaching nathan new ways to run to avoid hamstring injuries - he's cooked. It doesn't work.

Running style is so instinctive and ingrained by the time you're an adult - no chance of changing it under match conditions.
(running around the training track with time to think about how your legs are moving is a luxury you don't get in a game)

The hawks tried it with cyril and we tried it with jesse smith- both failures unfortunately.
I think the tigers might have tried it with cousins too?

Sure cyril has had a better hammy run lately-but that's because he hasn't been playing full-time mid.
He broke down like clockwork when playing as a mid, even after they'd supposedly changed his running style.
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Moorabbin Ghost said:
We also had to change his running style so that less stress was being handled by his hamstrings.
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As per what I said back in December

MG has just taken me from 'hopeful' on freeman, to downright pessimistic.

I think the poor bloke is destined for the Jesse Smith pile.
 
The_Steadier said:
As per what I said back in December

MG has just taken me from 'hopeful' on freeman, to downright pessimistic.

I think the poor bloke is destined for the Jesse Smith pile.
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What has Jesse Smith got to do with anything and in case of Cyril, are you suggesting that his hamstrings are better now because he does no explosive running as a forward?
Every player on our list has had suggestions on how to change their running technique to make them more efficient or to avoid putting less stress through certain muscles. It's not so much changing your style under match conditions but about load reducing on muscles.
Some of the dramatics turned on by
St Kilda supporters since we acquired Nathan has been ridiculous.
The club is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
 
Plumber66 said:
The only awareness I get after a run is a lack of fitness.
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Big chance that is how Freeman is at the moment, hence the less than expected great games by us supporters.
Wouldn't expect him to be match fit, after missing so much action. Hopefully we'll see the real Freezer next year.
 
The_Steadier said:
As per what I said back in December

MG has just taken me from 'hopeful' on freeman, to downright pessimistic.

I think the poor bloke is destined for the Jesse Smith pile.
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Don’t give up yet mate. Sometimes asking the right question is the best solution.

I despaired too when I used to watch Xavier Clark succumb to hamstrings. I didn’t have the tools to suggest what I thought in my mind was the problem. Always figured it was to do with how he ran.

My understanding doesn’t come from being a sports scientist but I was an elite runner in my time and knew well how to run “efficiently”. The problems with Cyril Rioli’s running are well expressed by Andrew Russell, Head Fitness Coach at Hawthorn, in the video below.

He admits it takes thousands of hours, and that they constantly videoed Cyril’s running gait and gave him feedback on his centre of gravity, his posture and how compact his gait was. Cyril says it was hard and frustrating, but it was obviously worth it. Perhaps his time more forward of the ball has helped too but the point is the running training certainly helped, but more importantly it was striving to solve the initial problem at it's root cause.

Bursting out of the middle has been one of Freeman’s strongest traits and will certainly test anyone’s hammies, but the hardest part is when fatigue sets in and in footy there’s so many other things to pay attention to other than just how your centre of gravity is.

I keep thinking about how Robert Harvey used to do it. Little steps, lifting your knees rather than just pushing off with your trailing leg and stretching that hammy to breaking point. Harves was always on the balls of his feet rather than his heels and was very good at decelerating too. You cannot underestimate the importance of how supremely fit he was as well.

I really hope this kind of training can be a turning point in Freezer’s career. Similarly I see room for improvement with Jack Billings’ long loping running style. Maybe we should do something like what the Dogs did last year and hire Craig Mottram for a refresher on how to run efficiently and the fundamental importance of base fitness.

 
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Moorabbin Ghost said:
The club is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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Because we overpaid for him. If it had been a third round pick or similar it wouldn't matter so much - but it was a second rounder in a strong draft, and we don't even pay that for another couple of months. I hope he makes it but paying too much is always going to increase scrutiny.
 
bergholt said:
Because we overpaid for him. If it had been a third round pick or similar it wouldn't matter so much - but it was a second rounder in a strong draft, and we don't even pay that for another couple of months. I hope he makes it but paying too much is always going to increase scrutiny.
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So every player we trade for or draft needs to make an immediate impact or we overpaid?
Freeman was not brought to the club for this season so I fail to see how you can judge that we overpaid yet.
As I've said numerous times, if Nathan is injured or playing VFL Development League this time next year then I'll agree we made a mistake. Right now he's doing an intense, long term recovery and is playing games, so I'm more than comfortable with where he's at.
 

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Moorabbin Ghost said:
So every player we trade for or draft needs to make an immediate impact or we overpaid?
Freeman was not brought to the club for this season so I fail to see how you can judge that we overpaid yet.
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Nah, we overpaid at the time. Plenty of people said it, both here and on SS. I was definitely one of them but I wasn't on my lonesome. He might come good, I hope he does; but that doesn't change the fact that a second round pick was just too high for a guy who'd barely played a game of competitive footy in years.

It's like you put your house on number 31 at the casino and it comes off. Congratulations! Doesn't change the fact it was an idiotic bet though.

I understand why it happened. Once he'd named us we felt we had to get him here, so that other players thinking about coming would be confident we'd make it happen. Fine, that makes some sense. But it allowed Collingwood to bend us over on price, and that's unfortunate.
 
bergholt said:
Because we overpaid for him. If it had been a third round pick or similar it wouldn't matter so much - but it was a second rounder in a strong draft, and we don't even pay that for another couple of months. I hope he makes it but paying too much is always going to increase scrutiny.
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I'm not sure you can say we overpaid for him when he's been at the club for 12 months with a disclosed injury issue that is being addressed by the medicos.

If he doesn't get on the park in the next year or so it'd be looking less likely but anything thrown out now is pure pessimism.

Even to say at the time we paid overs is incorrect as was a top 10 draft pick as for what people said on here and on ss, pffft
 
Jade Buddha said:
I'm not sure you can say we overpaid for him when he's been at the club for 12 months with a disclosed injury issue that is being addressed by the medicos.

If he doesn't get on the park in the next year or so it'd be looking less likely but anything thrown out now is pure pessimism.
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Nah, it's not. See my post just before yours. The final result is immaterial in judging the value of the price paid.
 
Ekomaira said:
getting a pick 10 two years after he was drafted for a second rounder. I'm stoked with the deal. like I've said before - if Nath never plays a game for us, that won't change my opinion on the trade. the risk was worth it
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Sorry but that's a stupid way of looking at it. Would you be happy parting with a 2nd rounder for Toumpas purely cause he was a high draft pick?
If we trade a 2nd rounder for a player then they better make some sort of impact.
I always thought he was worth a 3rd, a 2nd was overs. If he comes good then it's probably unders but it's not looking likely at this stage. Sure he's coming from a long way back, but to have barely played 5 VFL games in 3 years is not a 2nd rounder.
 
Ekomaira said:
getting a pick 10 two years after he was drafted for a second rounder. I'm stoked with the deal. like I've said before - if Nath never plays a game for us, that won't change my opinion on the trade. the risk was worth it
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Pick 10s for the last however long:

1998: Brandon Hill
1999: Luke McPharlin
2000: Jordan McMahon
2001: Sam Power
2002: Jason Laycock
2003: Ryley Dunn
2004: Chris Egan
2005: Marcus Drum
2006: Nathan Brown (Collingwood)
2007: Paddy Dangerfield
2008: Phil Davis
2009: Jake Melksham
2010: Daniel Gorringe
2011: Liam Sumner
2012: Joe Daniher (fs)
2013: Nathan Freeman
2014: Nakia Cockatoo
2015: Harry McKay

Pretty mixed results tbh. 50% strike rate? Less? And that's not taking into account his injuries.
 
bergholt said:
Pick 10s for the last however long:

1998: Brandon Hill
1999: Luke McPharlin
2000: Jordan McMahon
2001: Sam Power
2002: Jason Laycock
2003: Ryley Dunn
2004: Chris Egan
2005: Marcus Drum
2006: Nathan Brown (Collingwood)
2007: Paddy Dangerfield
2008: Phil Davis
2009: Jake Melksham
2010: Daniel Gorringe
2011: Liam Sumner
2012: Joe Daniher (fs)
2013: Nathan Freeman
2014: Nakia Cockatoo
2015: Harry McKay

Pretty mixed results tbh. 50% strike rate? Less? And that's not taking into account his injuries.
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Didn't you just argue mids, mids and more mids. Last time I looked Nathan was a mid
 
Kilroy said:
Don’t give up yet mate. Sometimes asking the right question is the best solution.

I despaired too when I used to watch Xavier Clark succumb to hamstrings. I didn’t have the tools to suggest what I thought in my mind was the problem. Always figured it was to do with how he ran.

My understanding doesn’t come from being a sports scientist but I was an elite runner in my time and knew well how to run “efficiently”. The problems with Cyril Rioli’s running are well expressed by Andrew Russell, Head Fitness Coach at Hawthorn, in the video below.

He admits it takes thousands of hours, and that they constantly videoed Cyril’s running gait and gave him feedback on his centre of gravity, his posture and how compact his gait was. Cyril says it was hard and frustrating, but it was obviously worth it. Perhaps his time more forward of the ball has helped too but the point is the running training certainly helped, but more importantly it was striving to solve the initial problem at it's root cause.

Bursting out of the middle has been one of Freeman’s strongest traits and will certainly test anyone’s hammies, but the hardest part is when fatigue sets in and in footy there’s so many other things to pay attention to other than just how your centre of gravity is.

I keep thinking about how Robert Harvey used to do it. Little steps, lifting your knees rather than just pushing off with your trailing leg and stretching that hammy to breaking point. Harves was always on the balls of his feet rather than his heels and was very good at decelerating too. You cannot underestimate the importance of how supremely fit he was as well.

I really hope this kind of training can be a turning point in Freezer’s career. Similarly I see room for improvement with Jack Billings’ long loping running style. Maybe we should do something like what the Dogs did last year and hire Craig Mottram for a refresher on how to run efficiently and the fundamental importance of base fitness.

Click to expand...


Brilliant comment, and the video was first class as well, great stuff!
 
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