National Broadband Network

[noddy]

So Turnbull didn't like what the other report said so he organized his own inquiry & filled it up with his hand picked stooges from the boys club, yep that sounds feasible & for some of the luvies of the right complaing of our comments on the said Turnbull inquiry just have a bo peep back a year or so ago to see what Abbott & his cronies said of the then Treasury & finance departments.

 

[Pessimistic]

I don't understand this, he is sensible and he could say conditions on the ground mean a third way. The alp version run better so to speak.
This election model did allow for a certain amount of fttp, it wasnt totally anti that route.

Think back to the model rudd took to 07 election, it was revised several times because of dealings with telstra. No one blasted rudd politically (outside the coalition that is) and no one would blast turnbull

There must be something else. Maybe the coalition is just too addicted to the political wedge, and theres no wedge in this

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I don't understand this, he is sensible and he could say conditions on the ground mean a third way. The alp version run better so to speak.
This election model did allow for a certain amount of fttp, it wasnt totally anti that route.

Think back to the model rudd took to 07 election, it was revised several times because of dealings with telstra. No one blasted rudd politically (outside the coalition that is) and no one would blast turnbull

There must be something else. Maybe the coalition is just too addicted to the political wedge, and theres no wedge in this

Rudd model was originally FTTN, it was found that FTTN was unworkable so Labor ditched for the better FTTP.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

How long will people continue to defend this government?

I can't wait until the cookie crumbles. Will be delicious.

 

[Pessimistic]

Abbott does seem unable to function without an army of minders. The project just had footage where he couldnt even sign off on agreements with premiers properly.

No one believes the alp much but the noises starting to come out of state governments should be ringing the alarm bells

Contrast that with the last elected pm, rudd, who was a raging control freak in analysis paralysis.

What is it with who we elect today ? Or is someone using these bozos in some kind of sick bet

"Look, i even got that fwit elected pm !"

 

[AM]

Not surprising the way things are turning out with a Cabinet of walking disasters such as Pyne, Joyce, Truss , Hunt, Robb, Nash, Fifield, Billson, Abetz, Andrews, Morrison. And a leader who wouldn't know the truth if it smacked him in the gob. The only surprise is this group are unraveling so quickly.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

How the **** could a monopoly provider of Broadband not make money in the digital century? Staggering incompetence in the assumptions.

Well if you spend the capital and can't get enough subscribers to pay the fee that would give at least break-even you will lose money.
Being a monopoly doesn't help if your income is less than your expenses.

 

[yibbida]

Well if you spend the capital and can't get enough subscribers to pay the fee that would give at least break-even you will lose money.
Being a monopoly doesn't help if your income is less than your expenses.

And that assumption was applied to Fibre but not Fraudband to arrive at these conclusions.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Well if you spend the capital and can't get enough subscribers to pay the fee that would give at least break-even you will lose money.
Being a monopoly doesn't help if your income is less than your expenses.

The subscribers were all there - anyone in Australia who wanted a fixed telephone or internet connection. This was the thing, it was going to be a replacement for the old copper network, not compete with it.

 

[Chief]

Completely irrelevant argument, but I think you already know that.

Rubbish. It's an (apocryphal) example of short-sightedness.

On the same level I remember workmates predicting in the 90s that if hard disks got much faster there would be no way to lubricate the movement, and if computer chips got much faster we would need ludicrously elaborate cooling systems, if we could even cool them at all.

20 years later we're doing pretty well. Technological doom and gloom seems often wide of the mark.

 

[Pessimistic]

The subscribers were all there - anyone in Australia who wanted a fixed telephone or internet connection. This was the thing, it was going to be a replacement for the old copper network, not compete with it.

Agree, someone decided to see if a systematic coordinated upgrade might be more efficient than a peicemeal approach.

Its a very normal approach and god knows why it became a political football.


If turnbulls NBN insists thap people pay for their own fibre connection whats to stop a street full of people combining and asking for a reduction in price for true fttp and refusing to buy one at a time until NBN comes to the party

It doesnt even need to be just one street power to the people brother

 

[samFFC]

While on the topic of attacking people's characters, is the reservation people have for the review authors nearly as bad a Commonwealth Minister using Parliamentary Privilege to lambast Mike Quigley? http://delimiter.com.au/2013/12/09/captain-titanic-turnbull-mocks-quigleys-nbn-tenure/

 

[Pessimistic]

So turnbull has completed the transformation to coalition snake quite easily

 

[GuruJane]

In many respects was no brainer Abbott appointing Turnbull to communications after Mal finds his dummy and slinks back into the coalition after 2010. Nevertheless it was a brilliant move, Turnbull being the only one in cabinet who could carry the coalition's anti NBN case with authority and devise a coherent coalition proposal to replace what was and will continue to be a very popular policy.

Now Mal's the one in the shitseat.
Mal is not used to being unloved, comrade pess.

 

[Pessimistic]

In many respects was no brainer Abbott appointing Turnbull to communications after Mal finds his dummy and slinks back into the coalition after 2010. Nevertheless it was a brilliant move, Turnbull being the only one in cabinet who could carry the coalition's anti NBN case with authority and devise a coherent coalition proposal to replace what was and will continue to be a very popular policy.

Now Mal's the one in the shitseat.
Mal is not used to being unloved, comrade pess.

"I'd like Malcolm to be known as Mr fraud...i mean Broadband". Brilliant casting by tones

 

[nut]

.... and who is the big winner??? Murdoch ... woops I mean Foxtel. ... This is all it was ever about.

 

[Footy Smarts]

So this is the way Left is going to smear the advice provided by Deloitte, KordaMentha, Boston Consulting Group? Good one.

There you go Smarts - sensible Labor supporters rallying behind your cry to trash business, big and small. That's going to be an election winner. Well done

Cool your jets. Nobody put out a "cry to trash business, big and small". It was a simple statement that this report clearly wasn't independent. Getting a few respected companies in to audit elements still doesn't make it independent.

When you've got a report critiquing the policies of the incoming government compared to the previous government, being written by people installed by the incoming government in preference to those of the previous government you're never going to get anything independent. You'd know as well as anybody that you only run reviews as a government when you know you're going to get back basically what you want to hear. What do you know the report conveniently found the best thing to do is a policy similar to the coalition's while skipping over the awkward points of the coalition's policy and bashing Labor without going into details as to why. Calling it "hardly independent" is simply a statement of the bleeding obvious.

Similarly my saying that they made "ludicrous revenue and cost projections" is another statement of the bleeding obvious. They conveniently left out any reference to the cost required to obtain access to the HFC networks or telstra copper network. Then they made the assumption that not having a monopoly network and having a 3rd rate service in many areas would lead to a less than 5% drop in revenue. This despite much of the NBN revenue projections coming from access to the fastest speeds that simply can't be delivered by the coalition alternative. There are a whole bunch of others that have been discussed here and elsewhere which I won't repeat.

Let's not get outraged for calling a spade a spade. Every government puts out "independent" analysis showing how bad the previous government was and how great they are. This is a classic example. Pointing out that this was a purely political excercise and that the review isn't worth the paper it's written on isn't a criticism of those companies you named, it's a criticism of the people writing the report and our political system that thinks this type of thing can fill the vacuum of intelligent policy debate.

 

[GuruJane]

Similarly my saying that they made "ludicrous revenue and cost projections" is another statement of the bleeding obvious. They conveniently left out any reference to the cost required to obtain access to the HFC networks or telstra copper network. Then they made the assumption that not having a monopoly network and having a 3rd rate service in many areas would lead to a less than 5% drop in revenue. This despite much of the NBN revenue projections coming from access to the fastest speeds that simply can't be delivered by the coalition alternative. There are a whole bunch of others that have been discussed here and elsewhere which I won't repeat.

Was your reference to ludicrous cost/revenue projections relating to the coalition model NBN NOT to the former governments NBN?

If so I misunderstood entirely - if you were criticising the ludicrous cost and revenue projections of the coalition model.

 

[Xsess]

In a stellar field the National Broadband Network is probably the biggest disaster of all of Labor's stuff ups. From the moment Rudd worked out the business case on the back of an envelope its gone from bad to worse. More than $70 billion and counting and will never come within a bulls roar of recovering its cost. With tomorrows mid year economic forecast set to be the worst in Australias history, the scale of Labors bumbling ineptitude will be on show for all to see, the NBN the jewel of the crown. Its beyond debate this is a **** up of epic proportions, surely.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

In a stellar field the National Broadband Network is probably the biggest disaster of all of Labor's stuff ups. From the moment Rudd worked out the business case on the back of an envelope its gone from bad to worse. More than $70 billion and counting and will never come within a bulls roar of recovering its cost. With tomorrows mid year economic forecast set to be the worst in Australias history, the scale of Labors bumbling ineptitude will be on show for all to see, the NBN the jewel of the crown. Its beyond debate this is a **** up of epic proportions, surely.

A valiant but half-hearted effort. Do they pay you by the word?

 

[TheMase]

In a stellar field the National Broadband Network is probably the biggest disaster of all of Labor's stuff ups. From the moment Rudd worked out the business case on the back of an envelope its gone from bad to worse. More than $70 billion and counting and will never come within a bulls roar of recovering its cost. With tomorrows mid year economic forecast set to be the worst in Australias history, the scale of Labors bumbling ineptitude will be on show for all to see, the NBN the jewel of the crown. Its beyond debate this is a **** up of epic proportions, surely.

LOL but spending 40+ billion on a mish mash of out dated tech is astute.

Give me an L, give me an I, give me a B... Come on Xsess and Guru join me....

 

[Xsess]

Its a disaster. Like trying to polish a $70b turd

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Its a disaster. Like trying to polish a $70b turd

The only disaster and polished turd is the Liberals "Broadband" "Plan".

*Broadband and Plan in quotes as I'm not sure the Liberals policy qualifies as either.

 

[GuruJane]

Cool your jets. Nobody put out a "cry to trash business, big and small". It was a simple statement that this report clearly wasn't independent. Getting a few respected companies in to audit elements still doesn't make it independent.

When you've got a report critiquing the policies of the incoming government compared to the previous government, being written by people installed by the incoming government in preference to those of the previous government you're never going to get anything independent. You'd know as well as anybody that you only run reviews as a government when you know you're going to get back basically what you want to hear. What do you know the report conveniently found the best thing to do is a policy similar to the coalition's while skipping over the awkward points of the coalition's policy and bashing Labor without going into details as to why. Calling it "hardly independent" is simply a statement of the bleeding obvious.

Excellent. No point then in any government at any time commissioning reports from any sector because they will never be seen a independent nor will their reports be taken seriously on the grounds that you cite:

...the policies of the incoming government compared to the previous government, being written by people installed by the incoming government in preference to those of the previous government you're never going to get anything independent. ....you only run reviews as a government when you know you're going to get back basically what you want to hear.

Smarts, do you expect business to ever take a prospective Labor/Left government seriously in foreseeable future when Left mounts these kinds of arguments? but wtf ... maybe you don't care ...

Similarly my saying that they made "ludicrous revenue and cost projections" is another statement of the bleeding obvious. They conveniently left out any reference to the cost required to obtain access to the HFC networks or telstra copper network. Then they made the assumption that not having a monopoly network and having a 3rd rate service in many areas would lead to a less than 5% drop in revenue. This despite much of the NBN revenue projections coming from access to the fastest speeds that simply can't be delivered by the coalition alternative. There are a whole bunch of others that have been discussed here and elsewhere which I won't repeat.

Come on Smarts - which costing and revenue projections are ludicrous in your mind?

And can you please itemise where in the report these ludicrous projections are made and show where (or where report did not) provide the assumptions on which projections were based?

 

[Footy Smarts]

Was your reference to ludicrous cost/revenue projections relating to the coalition model NBN NOT to the former governments NBN?

If so I misunderstood entirely - if you were criticising the ludicrous cost and revenue projections of the coalition model.

The cost was directed at the coalition model. When you just conveniently leave out details of major costs like getting access to the various networks of Telstra and Optus then it just doesn't pass the sniff test. It's impossible to really judge whether the costings of Labor's model are reasonable since, as far as I can tell, the document just doesn't go into any real detail on it.

In terms of revenue it's the difference between the 2 that doesn't make sense. An inferior network, unable to deliver the speeds that generate the most revenue and having to compete with other wholesale providers is going to lose far more than 5% of their revenue across the nation. Whether they've taken an unrealistically low amount for Labor's plan or unrealistically high amount for the coalition's I don't know but again it doesn't pass the sniff test.