Analysis New player roles - 2020

[Arr0w]

No not at all, in fact as he comes back from his reco’s I think he should remain purely as a half back, later down the road I think he could be considered in the rotations with a few of the other back half players as I said previously.

Murphster, you're not actually suggesting that once Doc finds some continiuty he could either play in front of the back 6/take some centre bounces and or some midfield minutes?

Brave suggestion in these parts

 

[Arr0w]

It does, but let's not get too clever for our own good.
No better recent example of a tactic gone wrong, than for Boltons small forward set-up last year.
If Polson wasn't confused beforehand, he certainly was after this failed trial.
Gibbons playing a more natural role may have ultimately saved his career.
ECurnow didn't like playing forward. Everyone says they welcome the challenge of a new role, but most are happy doing what they do best.

That's why I worry for Dow and Fisher this year and to a lesser extent Marchbank should they go ahead with playing him on a wing...and if we do I'll bet that it's with the NB'sd and not the main team. Maybe that's what we're being primed for, at tis stage.

Not sure we should rehash what Bolton was trying to do, we all know what it was, so let's just move onto Teague

If a player has versatility to play other roles, i don't see an issue with it, in fact I think that flexibility is a strength.

As example, if Marchbank is effective for the side on a wing, it benefits the side multiple ways, with the luxury of having an extra 3rd tall if the opposition stack the forward line with talls, or cover for an ingame injury to the likes of a Plowman

 

[HARKER]

Not sure we should rehash what Bolton was trying to do, we all know what it was, so let's just move onto Teague

If a player has versatility to play other roles, i don't see an issue with it, in fact I think that flexibility is a strength.

As example, if Marchbank is effective for the side on a wing, it benefits the side multiple ways, with the luxury of having an extra 3rd tall if the opposition stack the forward line with talls, or cover for an ingame injury to the likes of a Plowman

Everyone tries something new and there's nothing wrong with it, if it has a reason to come about.
Bolton didn't have many options and that's what desperation brings about - We aren't desperate any more.

Seems that most of the puzzle pieces have relatively nice and sensible fits now
Just because I don;t like the idea of Marchbank on a wing, doesn't mean it couldn't work...obviously....but the proof/pudding thing haas to show up first.

I do though think that early in the season that lightbulb moments can become drivers to want to make unnecessary changes and then when the dust settles, it's largely back to normal programming. There is a good reason for this.

 

[Arr0w]

Everyone tries something new and there's nothing wrong with it, if it has a reason to come about.
Bolton didn't have many options and that's what desperation brings about - We aren't desperate any more.

Seems that most of the puzzle pieces have relatively nice and sensible fits now
Just because I don;t like the idea of Marchbank on a wing, doesn't mean it couldn't work...obviously....but the proof/pudding thing haas to show up first.

I do though think that early in the season that lightbulb moments can become drivers to want to make unnecessary changes and then when the dust settles, it's largely back to normal programming. There is a good reason for this.

Harks, again you can't compare what Bolton had or what he wanted to do, to Teague.

Teague did and will play senior bodies in pivotal roles especially early, he has a more mature and balanced group. Perhaps we forget the coaching staff for the moment and focus on players

The majority of players in the modern era have greater flexibility, players that can play in more than one arc, many in all 3.

Marchbank's best position could be as a backman, but if 6 or 7 others are ahead of him, playing on a wing is fine, as long as he is still ahead of those options

With having 4 on the bench and a greater possibility of average amount of injuries, i see it as a worthwhile option

Remembering, Marchbank played on a wing in a couple of games last year, it looked natural for him

 

[HARKER]

Harks, again you can't compare what Bolton had or what he wanted to do, to Teague.

Teague did and will play senior bodies in pivotal roles especially early, he has a more mature and balanced group. Perhaps we forget the coaching staff for the moment and focus on players

The majority of players in the modern era have greater flexibility, players that can play in more than one arc, many in all 3.

Marchbank's best position could be as a backman, but if 6 or 7 others are ahead of him, playing on a wing is fine, as long as he is still ahead of those options

With having 4 on the bench and a greater possibility of average amount of injuries, i see it as a worthwhile option

Remembering, Marchbank played on a wing in a couple of games last year, it looked natural for him

Not comparing at all, as Boltons hands were forced to some degree as he wasn't afforded the tools he may have wanted and had to make do.
Teague got his Betts. Teague has Martin.

I agree in principle with you in regards to flexibility. I just don't agree with it by way of practicality....not right now at least...and not for our club in regards to where we are. Again......proof/pudding.
Of course we want our players to be able to rotate from front to back, but when the crunch comes, default positions come into place.

Some ideas make sense and some just don't and again....for every action there's a reaction and this is what we have to be mindful of.
What's is the net outcome of any change? This matters to me.

 

[Coona Blues]

Not sure we should rehash what Bolton was trying to do, we all know what it was, so let's just move onto Teague

If a player has versatility to play other roles, i don't see an issue with it, in fact I think that flexibility is a strength.

As example, if Marchbank is effective for the side on a wing, it benefits the side multiple ways, with the luxury of having an extra 3rd tall if the opposition stack the forward line with talls, or cover for an ingame injury to the likes of a Plowman

St Kilda have flagged playing Battle on a wing. West Coast have flagged playing Brander on a wing. Adelaide have flagged playing Walker on a wing. Freo flagging McCarthy on a wing. Then there is Westhoff. Cutler at 192cm for *. No surprise if Lukosius spends time there, likewise Nick Blakey. Becoming a thing, might be good to get ahead of the curve, at least on a part time basis.

 

[Arr0w]

Not comparing at all, as Boltons hands were forced to some degree as he wasn't afforded the tools he may have wanted and had to make do.
Teague got his Betts. Teague has Martin.

I agree in principle with you in regards to flexibility. I just don't agree with it by way of practicality....not right now at least...and not for our club in regards to where we are. Again......proof/pudding.
Of course we want our players to be able to rotate from front to back, but when the crunch comes, default positions come into place.

Some ideas make sense and some just don't and again....for every action there's a reaction and this is what we have to be mindful of.
What's is the net outcome of any change? This matters to me.

You only get new proof/pudding of you try it, so while we are not a flag contender, it's smart move

Net outcome might be better balance as a team, rather than pigeonholing a player

 

[therubbernub]

This is a combination of existing positions with maybe more definition.

Levi - Some of his best football to me has been played in the back half and also roaming ruck. I am picturing him as our Justin Westhoff.

SPS - He has to be played down back, with pinch hitting in the midfield.

Docherty/Newman/Simpson - One or two of them have to push higher up the ground and pinch hit in the midfield and Docherty has the best feeling in that role for me. Simpson would be the least likely

Cripps - I am hoping that we have a midfield that allows him to play like Dustin Martin and just clear out the forward line and allow him to one v one a team. I would not mind a 65/35 Midfield/Forward distribution. Increasing his forward percentages should be high on our list of priorities.

TDK - If Kruezer goes down, I could see him potentially being the main ruck.

Newnes - I am hoping he moves back to the wing again compared to his final years at Saints.

Murphy - I'd love for him to play a Cotchin role and become a more defensive midfielder/lock down player. Cotchin's role change has been one of the most impressive displays I've seen. Cotchin is a legit top line midfielder that is playing the best team game I've seen for years. His selfless play has unlocked that midfield unit.

Kennedy - He is a forward or bust pick in my eyes, I just don't see he has the ability to play midfield. I would prefer to get games into Dow, Setterfield, Stocker....

I honestly think the modern structure of teams is more a

4 - Forwards (McKay, McGovern, Curnow, Levi, Betts) We can head down the path of 2/3 talls with a combination of Betts and a resting midfielder

4 - Backs (Plowman, Levi, Weitering, Jones, Simpson, SPS) 2/3 talls with 1/2 of a Docherty, Simpson, SPS, Newman

9 - Midfielders - While some of these midfielders will be playing in back or forward positions, they need to have an ability to move into the midfield.
This is why I like JSOS's ability to move into the midfield, opens up his ability to shift from the forward half into the midfield.

1 - Ruck

That is the rough on-field structure these days.

Rookies - No real point talking about new roles as their role in juniors years is semi pointless.

Some interesting ideas there. Food for thought. Your idea for cripps is intriguing

 

[therubbernub]

is a stunned windows1 anything like a shattered windows1?

No but a blind windows1 is like a shuttered window

 

[therubbernub]

St Kilda have flagged playing Battle on a wing. West Coast have flagged playing Brander on a wing. Adelaide have flagged playing Walker on a wing. Freo flagging McCarthy on a wing. Then there is Westhoff. Cutler at 192cm for *. No surprise if Lukosius spends time there, likewise Nick Blakey. Becoming a thing, might be good to get ahead of the curve, at least on a part time basis.

There was early resistance but I see the crowd are shifting.

 

[HARKER]

St Kilda have flagged playing Battle on a wing. West Coast have flagged playing Brander on a wing. Adelaide have flagged playing Walker on a wing. Freo flagging McCarthy on a wing. Then there is Westhoff. Cutler at 192cm for *. No surprise if Lukosius spends time there, likewise Nick Blakey. Becoming a thing, might be good to get ahead of the curve, at least on a part time basis.

The reason this thread was born, was for the fact at this time of year we start to hear of all these wonderful new ideas.
It happens every year and at times is not much more than fodder for the media.....but some ideas will come to fruition.
Even SEN got on the back of 'new roles' for players, yesterday. It was always going to come.

Walker playing on a wing sounds like quirky idea from a new coach.
Gibbs in the backline though, makes for perfectly sound idea.

Lukosius for instance is a player that could genuinely play all around the ground and was trialed on a wing via the 2018 champs.
Someone else who stood out playing in the centre from those champs, was Blakey. He has genuine midfield traits.

As for Cripps playing forward; Very possible and much more so now, given what we're seeing from Setterfield so far this pre-season.
Going to be awfully difficult to match him up there and when he goes back into the midfield Setterfield comes forward. Good luck opposition.

These are the ideas that I like, as they're expanded out to beyond just a player taking up another role. i.e. They make sense.
Here we'd take some weight off Cripps, plant more trust and expectation upon Setterfield and have both of them at different times taking up forward roles not just to rest, but to cause havoc.

Something like Marchbank to wing on its own, doesn't do anything for me at all.
In fact if it was to come about at AFL level (not VFL level) then it feels like we may not have confidence in the guys whose natural role this is...or was to be and being asked to take up a post whilst another is resting or just for the odd few minutes here or there for mis-match reasons, doesn't count.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Some interesting ideas there. Food for thought. Your idea for cripps is intriguing

In the long run it will be best for Cripps and the Blues. His body will not be smashed week in week out and imagine trying to match up against him?

6'4'' Midfielder sitting in the forward line, then he can sneak into the midfield and it will be a nightmare for match ups.

 

[Jabba73]

Willo on the wing until he gets match fitness back, then he can take over from Simmo.

Kid has size, mongrel, pace and a left foot to die for.

Play him on the ‘wrong’ side so his natural instinct will be to look inboard instead of boundary line.

 

[BlueView]

In the long run it will be best for Cripps and the Blues. His body will not be smashed week in week out and imagine trying to match up against him?

6'4'' Midfielder sitting in the forward line, then he can sneak into the midfield and it will be a nightmare for match ups.

The time he spent playing last year in the midfield was unsustainable, ridiculous really. Had Lachie Neale covered by about a quarter of football up until about round 12 from memory then it was a massive drop off to the rest of the comp on how much time they’d spent in there and they were outside players. Would have shortened his career by two or three years imo

 

[HARKER]

Look at what that really means though -

Duursma. Polec and to a point, Hunter are flankers and not getting beaten up as regularly as Cripps has been.
Setterfield just looks right, not only to support Cripps but to add to a dangerous combination. Just looks right

 

[Brackets]

In the long run it will be best for Cripps and the Blues. His body will not be smashed week in week out and imagine trying to match up against him?

6'4'' Midfielder sitting in the forward line, then he can sneak into the midfield and it will be a nightmare for match ups.

What will help Cripps is more blocking, and pressure on players targeting him. Replacing midfield time for packs crashing into him isn't going to produce a significant reprieve I wouldn't have thought.

I expect a lot of players are waking up more sore from a game than the 195cm Cripps.

For all the talk of Cripps needing support, the guy I feel for when watching games is usually Ed, who constantly gets knocked around by multiple opposition in his role.

 

[HARKER]

What will help Cripps is more blocking, and pressure on players targeting him. Replacing midfield time for packs crashing into him isn't going to produce a significant reprieve I wouldn't have thought.

I expect a lot of players are waking up more sore from a game than the 195cm Cripps.

For all the talk of Cripps needing support, the guy I feel for when watching games is usually Ed, who constantly gets knocked around by multiple opposition in his role.

I think it will, as it won't force Cripps to be running up and down the field as much as he'd been asked to do.

More than anything, Setterfield excited me yesterday and not simply because of his work-rate and intent, but for the notion of he and Cripps being able to alternate roles without us losing much in terms of effectiveness.
I know, Setterfield isn't Cripps but the notion of Cripps and Setterfield alternating is exciting and especially so if both their 'rest' times are forward as both looked dangerous there.

In this example I see a bigger picture win.
I don't care for what a player may do here or there, but do care for what the net worth of him doing so may be.

 

[Mr_Plow]

I think it will, as it won't force Cripps to be running up and down the field as much as he'd been asked to do.

More than anything, Setterfield excited me yesterday and not simply because of his work-rate and intent, but for the notion of he and Cripps being able to alternate roles without us losing much in terms of effectiveness.
I know, Setterfield isn't Cripps but the notion of Cripps and Setterfield alternating is exciting and especially so if both their 'rest' times are forward as both looked dangerous there.

In this example I see a bigger picture win.
I don't care for what a player may do here or there, but do care for what the net worth of him doing so may be.

Setterfield has never struck me as the powerful type, particularly given his size. A beautiful mover, though, which he uses superbly.

How have you seem the contested side of his game this pre-season?

 

[Coona Blues]

Setterfield has never struck me as the powerful type, particularly given his size. A beautiful mover, though, which he uses superbly.

How have you seem the contested side of his game this pre-season?

Pendlebury has never struck me as a powerful type either. Go figure. Don't need to be an out and out bull. While Crippa has that element of "class" which complements his sheer power and want, Setterfield oozes class, while still doing the one percenters and clearing the way for his mates. Different optics, but with Setter's maturity, the output will be offer significant similarities.

 

[HARKER]

Setterfield has never struck me as the powerful type, particularly given his size. A beautiful mover, though, which he uses superbly.

How have you seem the contested side of his game this pre-season?

It's because of his contested work, that my expectations have risen, for him.
It's only the pre-season but all signs are positive that Setterfield can become that ally for Cripps.

Have to say though...and I've just remembered....Stocker looked ever so strong in the midfield drills a few weeks back. Absolute bull.

 

[Arr0w]

Best set of hands I have seen in juniors (for mids) are Setters and Constable

Said it from day dot, Setters reminds me of Mundy when he plays through the middle. One touch, floats, not super quick but always has time.

 

[zeeCFC]

Not sure if mentioned or if anyone cares but Cam Polson has been playing as a half back. Not much to report though

 

[HARKER]

Not sure if mentioned or if anyone cares but Cam Polson has been playing as a half back. Not much to report though

Yes and that's because it makes sense and it's a last stop shop for him.

Thought he did quite well on Saturday and exited the backline on a few occasions, quite confidently and nicely.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Yes and that's because it makes sense and it's a last stop shop for him.

Thought he did quite well on Saturday and exited the backline on a few occasions, quite confidently and nicely.

Reckon he has a snowflakes chance in hell of making the same role is own at AFL level though? Or does it maybe just buy him another year or two as a depth option and regular in the VFL side?

 

[HARKER]

Reckon he has a snowflakes chance in hell of making the same role is own at AFL level though? Or does it maybe just buy him another year or two as a depth option and regular in the VFL side?

I think it's a small chance but it is a chance at least.
No way he'll get in front of all the other mids we have and as we know, he's not a forward.

Polson has been quite good in all the sessions I've been to and he did look more at home in the back-line than the forward line.
Reckon Betts would have liked to have shown a little more against him on Saturday too.