Cars & Transportation New Tunnel in Melbourne?

[Caesar]

Why can't we just build bullet trains?

Why does living on top of one another need to be the solution?

The issue is one of efficiency. Half the population density of London means that you need to service twice as big an area for the same return. That means twice as many rail lines/stations/trains/buses per capita to provide the same level of access.

It's an extremely expensive solution. Easier to build freeways and expect everybody to find their own way around.

Urban planning in Australia is hopeless but it's a product of our lifestyle.

 

[Papa Juggs]

The issue is one of efficiency. Half the population density of London means that you need to service twice as big an area for the same return. That means twice as many rail lines/stations/trains/buses per capita to provide the same level of access.

It's an extremely expensive solution. Easier to build freeways and expect everybody to find their own way around.

Urban planning in Australia is hopeless but it's a product of our lifestyle.

Well put up taxes on people with big backyards in urban areas.

We shouldn't compare Australian cities to London anyway. We don't have 60 million people crammed on a little island.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

The issue is one of efficiency. Half the population density of London means that you need to service twice as big an area for the same return. That means twice as many rail lines/stations/trains/buses per capita to provide the same level of access.

It's an extremely expensive solution. Easier to build freeways and expect everybody to find their own way around.

Urban planning in Australia is hopeless but it's a product of our lifestyle.

Explain how 10 of thousands of cars all travelling to the CBD and surrounds is efficient.

 

[knife]

Building bullet trains between our major cities is an extremely costly exercise and something we do not yet have the population to warrant that kind of spend. I read somewhere Melbourne to Sydney to Brisbane would be somewhere in the midst of 150 billion to do.

^ Exactly, the case for High speed rail doesn't exist.

There was a study for high speed train link between Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney and Brisbane (along with some regional towns) costed at $114 billion and would be fully operational by 2065. ~$10b just to build the platforms for the trains and another $13.7b for land aquisition

No one will privately fund it because its not viable and chances are the if it ever got done the taxpayer would take up all the risk with the very high likelihood that flying will still be cheaper and quicker.

 

[Caesar]

We shouldn't compare Australian cities to London anyway. We don't have 60 million people crammed on a little island.

Its a relevant comparison when you talk about the effectiveness of various forms of mass transit. London's public transport and congestion tax works because every metre of rail, every station, and every kilometre a bus drives services roughly twice as many people as it would in Australia.

Explain how 10 of thousands of cars all travelling to the CBD and surrounds is efficient.

It's not, overly. But blame low density housing in major cities, which makes it prohibitively expensive to provide adequate public transport coverage to the bulk of the urban/suburban population.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Melbourne could do well with more train lines (and perhaps a ring line to connect them further out).

Not sure why so many think to the airport should be the next one though

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Melbourne could do well with more train lines (and perhaps a ring line to connect them further out).

Not sure why so many think to the airport should be the next one though

Really they should have build a middle and outer ring lines as the city expanded with stations only on existing spurs.

Middle Ring Caulfield to Williamstown

Outer Ring Frankston to Werribee (through Dandenong, Ringwood ect.)

 

[Caesar]

I think Tullamarine's shuttle bus service to Spencer Street is pretty good. Cheap, fast, puts you where you want to be. Never felt a need for it to be replaced with a train.

Helps that you have an excellent freeway out there. Sydney and Brisbane have pretty horrible congestion problems between the CBD and their airport, which makes the rail link more attractive.

 

[tandino]

It's cheaper for two people to catch a taxi from circular quay to the airport in Sydney then it is to catch the train, at least it was when I was there last.

Such a situation needs to be averted if there was a train line in Melbourne.

 

[neroblack]

The short term, low(er) cost solutions for rail seem to be to upgrade the signalling and to run more trains on the existing lines.

This would require a few other related things to happen, such as:
- more grade separations, although there is already a program underway to undertake these projects,
- additional car parking at the major commuter train stations,
- more efficient timetabling where lines are shared with v-line services.
and probably a few other things..

Anything more major than that is just massively expensive...and like Caesar says, difficult to justifiy.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Probably the biggest issues with the network is that they pretty much stopped expanding it in the 1930s.

The Darling line was extended to Glen Waverly in 1930 and was never extended since even though it should have been.

Prior to the 1930's Melbourne was built along the rail lines that connected it to the nearby regional centers (Frankston, Dandenong ect)

 

[neroblack]

Really they should have build a middle and outer ring lines as the city expanded with stations only on existing spurs.

Middle Ring Caulfield to Williamstown

Outer Ring Frankston to Werribee (through Dandenong, Ringwood ect.)

There used to be an inner ring through Camberwell and Kew, around the inner north of the city. Got pulled up, but you can still find parts of the reservation.

 

[neroblack]

This was the inner loop that used to exist, and then the 'outer loop' that used to exist is on this larger plan that gives a pretty good summary of the broader network, existing, proposed, etc..