Next Generation

[Freezin]

I guess Tanveer Sangha has jumped Swepson in the leg spinner queue.....Aust seems well placed for next generation spinners in Murphy, Rocchiccioli and Sangha.....though it seems Lyon has some unfinished business in regards to tours to England and India...so be interested to see if those 3 have the patience to wait.

 

[The 747]

Probably an unfortunate victim of the other prospects doing so well in India. Had a solid tour of Sri Lanka (8 wickets at an average of 24 from 3 innings) and hasn't even been in the conversation to be selected since. He did struggle in Pakistan, but those weren't great wickets to debut on as a bowler at all.

Yeah Kuhneman in particular was surprisingly good in India, so if they want it turning the other way he'd be next in line.

 

[eth-dog]

Yeah Kuhneman in particular was surprisingly good in India, so if they want it turning the other way he'd be next in line.

Stepson is getting games ahead of him for Queensland tbh.

I can see a future where all of Swepson, Kuhnemann and Murphy get games in tandem for the sub continent if we have both Green and Hardie in the top 7.

 

[ioppolo]

Stepson is getting games ahead of him for Queensland tbh.

I can see a future where all of Swepson, Kuhnemann and Murphy get games in tandem for the sub continent if we have both Green and Hardie in the top 7.

I find this interesting. I rate Kuhnemann higher and the national selectors seem to have him higher in the queue right now...is Swepson just in the better form?

 

[eth-dog]

I find this interesting. I rate Kuhnemann higher and the national selectors seem to have him higher in the queue right now...is Swepson just in the better form?

I rate Swepson higher, and I think the Indian pitches were simply a case of them recognising that finger spin was more likely to net results. If they really rated Kuhnemann higher then Queensland would be getting a tap on the shoulder, and Kuhnemann would have been selected in the initial squad in India as well.

I think that one should move to Tassie either way FWIW. Both are miles better than Freeman who keeps getting games somehow.

 

[Around the Wicket]

I find this interesting. I rate Kuhnemann higher and the national selectors seem to have him higher in the queue right now...is Swepson just in the better form?

there is nothing to go off, although Swepson has decent numbers, 19 wickets at 32 Kuhnemann hasn't played a FC game.

 

[toml]

Jason Sangha was dominating the youth ranks, I actually think he'd be well served moving to South Australia for the more batsmen friendly conditions

Going there to be coached well without the pathway obsessed egos at NSW cricket that are simply obsessed with the idea of finding the next test star at 17 so they can say "I told you so" might be a good idea. Shield and list a decks at the SCG, Drummoyne and NSO are hardly landmines, there is more to Sangha not reaching his apparent potential than the pitches he is playing on. He wouldn't be the first u19 star to never live up to their expectations, Jake Doran is the other that I can think of off the top of my head. Fairly sure he has never been am out and out star at grade level but NSW cricket have also barely given him a chance to play regular grade cricket without bringing him straight back in to the NSW side after dropping him for 1 game, I feel bad for him.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Yeah Kuhneman in particular was surprisingly good in India, so if they want it turning the other way he'd be next in line.

Perfect type of bowler for those pitches - even sok had success with his left arm nothings

Dart it in on middle stump and still get some turn

Not a strategy that’ll work in Aus - but suits those pitches

Still think lyon bowls too much flighted stuff in India

Murphy’s big strength is his drift - but it was largely non existent in India

Rocc appears to have the best overspin, dip and bounce from the limited amount I’ve seen - but more suited to aus than India

Can’t see Agar getting in ahead of him

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Test icon Greg Chappell has promoted youth in Australian cricket to the point of backlash. He sees a problem looming as David Warner and other greats depart, writes SHANNON GILL.

Greg Chappell reckons the days of a face fresh out of school debuting for Australia are all but over.

“That was one of our great strengths, there was always a place for an exciting young cricketer coming through,” Chappell says.

“We’ve now seen players play on much longer because they get well paid, and that’s fine, but you need to have a robust selection process so that the very best young cricketers are getting an opportunity.

“Otherwise, you’re going to have a lot of players debuting at 27, 28, 29 years of age and there’s not a lot of cricket left in them.

“A 22-year-old has probably a 10-12 year span in front of them. The others have got a five or six-year span.”

Regardless of which way the selectors go and notwithstanding the success, the Warner replacement question illuminates the dearth of young batters knocking down the door through Sheffield Shield performances.

Ahead of the current round, only two of the top 10 run scorers this season (Nathan McSweeney and Renshaw) will be under 30 by the time the first Test starts.

For some, this may be indicative of a hardened professional competition that produces Test players for now rather than the future.

Chappell is not convinced. While so many are wary of raw youth, he worries about players left marinating too long in Shield cricket.

“It’s an issue that we haven’t quite realised yet. I think that’s something we’re probably going to find when the Warners, Smiths and a few others finish up.

“What is there to replace them? Will there be any exciting young cricketers or will they be all 27, 28, 29-year-old players? If you play a lot of first class cricket you adapt to that level, then to make the step up is a bit harder.”

 

[MisterMarcus]

I've said this elsewhere, but I feel like there's a bit of a "lost generation" in Australian cricket, especially in the batting. The types who were the Next Big Things 5-10 years ago and are in their late 20s/early 30s now.

Bancroft, Harris, Renshaw, Travis Dean, Jake Lehmann, Jake Doran were all types who we'd expect to have been putting serious pressure on the existing team a few years ago, and at least some would be best XI now.

Swepson never quite came on to challenge Lyon. Pace bowlers like Jhye Richardson have been restricted by injury.

We've straight-up leapfrogged that generation when it comes to Green and Murphy.

So we have an ageing team full of mid-30s blokes who are all going to retire in a short time, and the transition will probably be more brutal than it needed to be.

 

[Black Diamond]

I reckon Chappell has had enough input over the journey.

Test icon Greg Chappell has promoted youth in Australian cricket to the point of backlash. He sees a problem looming as David Warner and other greats depart, writes SHANNON GILL.

Greg Chappell reckons the days of a face fresh out of school debuting for Australia are all but over.

“That was one of our great strengths, there was always a place for an exciting young cricketer coming through,” Chappell says.

“We’ve now seen players play on much longer because they get well paid, and that’s fine, but you need to have a robust selection process so that the very best young cricketers are getting an opportunity.

“Otherwise, you’re going to have a lot of players debuting at 27, 28, 29 years of age and there’s not a lot of cricket left in them.

“A 22-year-old has probably a 10-12 year span in front of them. The others have got a five or six-year span.”

Regardless of which way the selectors go and notwithstanding the success, the Warner replacement question illuminates the dearth of young batters knocking down the door through Sheffield Shield performances.

Ahead of the current round, only two of the top 10 run scorers this season (Nathan McSweeney and Renshaw) will be under 30 by the time the first Test starts.

For some, this may be indicative of a hardened professional competition that produces Test players for now rather than the future.

Chappell is not convinced. While so many are wary of raw youth, he worries about players left marinating too long in Shield cricket.

“It’s an issue that we haven’t quite realised yet. I think that’s something we’re probably going to find when the Warners, Smiths and a few others finish up.

“What is there to replace them? Will there be any exciting young cricketers or will they be all 27, 28, 29-year-old players? If you play a lot of first class cricket you adapt to that level, then to make the step up is a bit harder.”

Chappell should just give it a rest.

He helped orchestrate the current situation.

Back when he was selector, he dropped Hughes and Khawaja who were right in the age bracket he laments not having. Later he picked Renshaw, Maddinson and Hanscomb all at once, none of whom are in the side at present.

Either stubborn, a slow learner, or both.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I've said this elsewhere, but I feel like there's a bit of a "lost generation" in Australian cricket, especially in the batting. The types who were the Next Big Things 5-10 years ago and are in their late 20s/early 30s now.

Bancroft, Harris, Renshaw, Travis Dean, Jake Lehmann, Jake Doran were all types who we'd expect to have been putting serious pressure on the existing team a few years ago, and at least some would be best XI now.

Swepson never quite came on to challenge Lyon. Pace bowlers like Jhye Richardson have been restricted by injury.

We've straight-up leapfrogged that generation when it comes to Green and Murphy.

So we have an ageing team full of mid-30s blokes who are all going to retire in a short time, and the transition will probably be more brutal than it needed to be.

Hard when the younger guys are not given the opportunity, or at least not much of it. This Pakistan/Windies series would have been a good chance to blood some younger guys.

Would have liked to see Murphy/Swepson come in ahead of Lyon against a very ordinary opposition.

Sooner or later, you need to start phasing out the older guys and give younger guys a go, or like you have said a lot will retire at once and you will be left in a lurch.

No different to AFL really. Need to blood the young kids.

 

[big_e]

Hard when the younger guys are not given the opportunity, or at least not much of it. This Pakistan/Windies series would have been a good chance to blood some younger guys.

Would have liked to see Murphy/Swepson come in ahead of Lyon against a very ordinary opposition.

Sooner or later, you need to start phasing out the older guys and give younger guys a go, or like you have said a lot will retire at once and you will be left in a lurch.

No different to AFL really. Need to blood the young kids.

Great theory until we lose a test match after Mitch Swepson gets carted for 0/120. All while a guy with 500 wickets is playing in front of 8,000 people in Hobart...

 

[big_e]

I've said this elsewhere, but I feel like there's a bit of a "lost generation" in Australian cricket, especially in the batting. The types who were the Next Big Things 5-10 years ago and are in their late 20s/early 30s now.

Bancroft, Harris, Renshaw, Travis Dean, Jake Lehmann, Jake Doran were all types who we'd expect to have been putting serious pressure on the existing team a few years ago, and at least some would be best XI now.

Swepson never quite came on to challenge Lyon. Pace bowlers like Jhye Richardson have been restricted by injury.

We've straight-up leapfrogged that generation when it comes to Green and Murphy.

So we have an ageing team full of mid-30s blokes who are all going to retire in a short time, and the transition will probably be more brutal than it needed to be.

Marnus Labuschagne and Travis Head are in that same demographic, though, and they are the mainstays of the current side. And the first three you mentioned all had a go but just didn't score enough runs.

The biggest problem that Jhye Richardson and other fast bowlers face is that the current three are all incredibly durable, and work well as a group - there's not been a time in the last few years where any of them have truly deserved to be dropped.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Great theory until we lose a test match after Mitch Swepson gets carted for 0/120. All while a guy with 500 wickets is playing in front of 8,000 people in Hobart...

i highly doubt Pakistan or the west indies would do that, but I also mentioned Murphy..........Murphy has decent form with the red ball on overseas decks, 25 avg with 21 wickets, not shabby. Why not give him a crack on home soil?

which was the point of the post, against ordinary opposition, give experience to younger guys.

There's little point waiting until players retire, before you give others a crack.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

There are a handful of little opportunities where you can play your younger, most talented players.

The No 6 batting spot. Years ago it would be used to usher in a Steve Waugh, Ricky Ponting or Michael Clarke. More recently Cameron Green but often over the last 15+ years we've rewarded the experienced Shield performer instead (Lehmann, North, Voges, Bailey)

If one of the 3 quicks needs a breather or gets injured. Again, it's tempting to bring in a perennial Shield performer (Boland) rather than the next up and comer.

Also those handful of tests you go in with 2 spinners you can have a look at a new spinner.

If these opportunities drift by it becomes very hard to blood or identify younger players. And we've had quite a bit of success rewarding the old heads it must be said. Who'd begrudge Voges or Boland their opportunity?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

There are a handful of little opportunities where you can play your younger, most talented players.

The No 6 batting spot. Years ago it would be used to usher in a Steve Waugh, Ricky Ponting or Michael Clarke. More recently Cameron Green but often over the last 15+ years we've rewarded the experienced Shield performer instead (Lehmann, North, Voges, Bailey)

If one of the 3 quicks needs a breather or gets injured. Again, it's tempting to bring in a perennial Shield performer (Boland) rather than the next up and comer.

Also those handful of tests you go in with 2 spinners you can have a look at a new spinner.

If these opportunities drift by it becomes very hard to blood or identify younger players. And we've had quite a bit of success rewarding the old heads it must be said. Who'd begrudge Voges or Boland their opportunity?

Times like Ashes etc you put your best 11 in but against Pakistan and West Indies, we should be taking the opportunity to play a couple of young kids to start blooding the next generation.

that's my view anyway.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Times like Ashes etc you put your best 11 in but against Pakistan and West Indies, we should be taking the opportunity to play a couple of young kids to start blooding the next generation.

that's my view anyway.

Yeah, it's easy when an obvious jet like Ponting is sitting there waiting. Doesn't take too much crystal balling

Whereas Labuschagne wasn't obvious and only got a look through concussion protocols. Sometimes a bit of prescience is required

 

[akkaps]

Great theory until we lose a test match after Mitch Swepson gets carted for 0/120. All while a guy with 500 wickets is playing in front of 8,000 people in Hobart...

That's not the point though, Swepson will learn from that, and will get the International experience develop his skills further. You have to give the younger generation experience at a young age. Otherwise you are left with no one to replace the current generation, or their replacement only has a game span of 3-4 years before you needs to find another replacement

It's not all about winning every game possible. It's understandable that you are going to lose the occasional game

I give credit to CA for picking Cam Green at a young age a sticking with his development.

Also guy with 500 wicket, talk about padding out their personal stats

 

[HirdsTheWord]

That's not the point though, Swepson will learn from that, and will get the International experience develop his skills further. You have to give the younger generation experience at a young age. Otherwise you are left with no one to replace the current generation, or their replacement only has a game span of 3-4 years before you needs to find another replacement

It's not all about winning every game possible. It's understandable that you are going to lose the occasional game

I give credit to CA for picking Cam Green at a young age a sticking with his development.

Also guy with 500 wicket, talk about padding out their personal stats

it's a silly position anyway.

Swapping Lyon out for Swepson or Murphy is not going to lose us a match against Pakistan or the West Indies on home soil. Lyon is 37 this year, and now that he has 500, he should really be phased out. Murphy is 23 and is likely going to be the go-to spinner for us for the next decade. What we need to find is the next 2-3 so when we tour India next, we are ready.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Players understand too that possession is 9/10ths the law.

At every level - test spot, Shield spot.

What if your fill in tons up?

Don't leave it to chance.

 

[corbies]

That's not the point though, Swepson will learn from that, and will get the International experience develop his skills further. You have to give the younger generation experience at a young age. Otherwise you are left with no one to replace the current generation, or their replacement only has a game span of 3-4 years before you needs to find another replacement

It's not all about winning every game possible. It's understandable that you are going to lose the occasional game

I give credit to CA for picking Cam Green at a young age a sticking with his development.

Also guy with 500 wicket, talk about padding out their personal stats

**** that. Win every game you possibly can.

Replace the 37 year olds with 30 year olds and let them play at their peak and just keep replacing them with players at their peak.

It's been shown time and time again that players can and mostly do hit the ground running when selected at this age. They don't need Test experience before they're ready.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Times like Ashes etc you put your best 11 in but against Pakistan and West Indies, we should be taking the opportunity to play a couple of young kids to start blooding the next generation.

that's my view anyway.

Not with the WTC being so important. We have already been hammered in loss of points for overrates we sort of had to put no risk in losing this series.

You don't use a test for blooding it's Not the AFL.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

it's a silly position anyway.

Swapping Lyon out for Swepson or Murphy is not going to lose us a match against Pakistan or the West Indies on home soil. Lyon is 37 this year, and now that he has 500, he should really be phased out. Murphy is 23 and is likely going to be the go-to spinner for us for the next decade. What we need to find is the next 2-3 so when we tour India next, we are ready.

Murphy has hardly banged the door down this summer, as for him being the next spinner not as sold on it yet. Maybe he needs development

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Murphy has hardly banged the door down this summer, as for him being the next spinner not as sold on it yet. Maybe he needs development

Disagree.

Murphy has shown great form on away decks in India and England.

Of course he needs development, he is 23 years old?

Where do you think has going to get that development? In the nets? lol.

he needs experience, at test level.