Nicky Winmar to be honoured with statue.

[Marcus DuQuesne]

Yet also seems you choose to make definitive claims about experiences that you can’t have had unless you are about 80 and attended many games of footy back in the day.
When the evidence of racist comments even in today’s game suggests your claims re the past are unlikely to be valid.

80 I do not think so...but I started going to the football in 1965 as an 8 year old. I mentioned in a previous post that there were all sorts of racist remarks made in the 60's and 70's..........So what is it that makes my past invalid? It does not match what you believe the truth to be. I alone own my experiences it just does not fit your narrative...bad luck.

 

[Maylandsman]

Why would I find that? How would you or anyone else know this?

The person using the racist slur may be ignorant or thoughtless - it's still a racist slur. The person's ignorance doesn't mean it was above board.

It may alter or mitigate the response but you still have to be willing to say it's unacceptable.

Do you not understand that likening indigenous athletes to apes or monkeys is racist?

So you do understand that likening indigenous athletes to apes or monkeys is racist?

Why is it racist to throw a banana at a player but not racist to call them an ape?

The subtext and the connotations are exactly the same.

I understand we all come from apes and you twist the logic to suit your needs. she called him a big ape and would have said the same to an Asian player...or Muslim or Caucasian.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I understand we all come from apes and you twist the logic to suit your needs.

Sorry what? Who is twisting what logic?

she called him a big ape and would have said the same to an Asian player...or Muslim or Caucasian.

So why is it unacceptable to throw bananas at an indigenous player? Explain to me why that is racist. Do you know?

It is unacceptable for the same reason that calling an indigenous player "an ape" is unacceptable. Which part of that is tripping you up?

Why do you consider one act racist and the other not necessarily racist? How does that work?

Also, how do you know what this person would or wouldn't have done? You seem very confident in that knowledge.

 

[Maylandsman]

Sorry what? Who is twisting what logic?

So why is it unacceptable to throw bananas at an indigenous player? Explain to me why that is racist. Do you know?

It is unacceptable for the same reason that calling an indigenous player "an ape" is unacceptable. Which part of that is tripping you up?

Why do you consider one act racist and the other not necessarily racist? How does that work?

Also, how do you know what this person would or wouldn't have done? You seem very confident in that knowledge.

i bet you've got a headache and are on the cusp of imploding. so your twisted logic says it is ok to call all other creeds an 'ape' just not blackfellas. are you being a bigot? have a nice day...the footy is back.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

i bet you've got a headache and are on the cusp of imploding. so your twisted logic says it is ok to call all other creeds an 'ape' just not blackfellas. are you being a bigot? have a nice day...the footy is back.

Do you genuinely not understand why it's problematic to call an indigenous player an "ape"?

But you understand why it's not OK to throw bananas at them? Please explain.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "twisted logic". I'm just asking you to clarify this obvious contradiction.

 

[Maylandsman]

Do you genuinely not understand why it's problematic to call an indigenous player an "ape"?

But you understand why it's not OK to throw bananas at them? Please explain.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "twisted logic". I'm just asking you to clarify this obvious contradiction.

Not worth it...hairy people have feelings to.
Who said I don’t understand...you. You reckon that girl knew about Darwin and what was going on in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries.
We’re all related to the apes unless you believe in sky wizards.
Go and implode mate and stop trying be super supreme by inserting words or thoughts into people’s comments to suit your twisted logic.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Not worth it...hairy people have feelings to.
Who said I don’t understand...you. You reckon that girl knew about Darwin and what was going on in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries.
We’re all related to the apes unless you believe in sky wizards.
Go and implode mate and stop trying be super supreme by inserting words or thoughts into people’s comments to suit your twisted logic.

I haven't inserted anything. Nor do I understand what you mean by "twisted logic". For some reason, you're totally unwilling to explain yourself.

You understand it's not OK to throw bananas at an indigenous player. Right? Can you explain why it's not OK?

Yet you're less clear about calling an indigenous player an "ape"? Why?

The subtext is the same in each case. Why do you see them as being different? It's not a trick question.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

https://westernsaintsinc.wordpress.com/2019/06/25/143/

Statue to be unveiled this Saturday any WA saints supporters (or nicky supporters ) are invited to join the Western Saints in a march across Matagarup Bridge to celebrate the unveiling of this fantastic statue ..

 

[Loken]

https://westernsaintsinc.wordpress.com/2019/06/25/143/

Statue to be unveiled this Saturday any WA saints supporters (or nicky supporters ) are invited to join the Western Saints in a march across Matagarup Bridge to celebrate the unveiling of this fantastic statue ..

Hopefully the statue does him justice. He was a fantastic player and one of my favourites to watch.

Also such an iconic image of him lifting his jumper at Vic Park will be a part of footy history forever.

Well deserved for a champion.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

https://westernsaintsinc.wordpress.com/2019/06/25/143/

Statue to be unveiled this Saturday any WA saints supporters (or nicky supporters ) are invited to join the Western Saints in a march across Matagarup Bridge to celebrate the unveiling of this fantastic statue ..

It's great the WA Saints are getting involved and there'll be a march. Something like the walk to the g would be great before every game at Optus during indidge round.

 

[TheShardMan]

It's great the WA Saints are getting involved and there'll be a march. Something like the walk to the g would be great before every game at Optus during indidge round.

Can you call 2 ppl a march? Haha

Unpopular opinion but this statue is in the wrong place. It belongs in Melbourne. If anything the statue at Optus should be of Chris Lewis. He was the first one who really fought back against racism on field. And for that he got handed multiple suspensions and a reputation as a thug. Still staggers me how Winmar and the media have been able to change the narrative to the extent that he takes full credit for putting a spotlight on racism. Nah, the real hero's are guys like Lewis, Long, McLean etc.

 

[stfan]

Still staggers me how Winmar and the media have been able to change the narrative to the extent that he takes full credit for putting a spotlight on racism. Nah, the real hero's are guys like Lewis, Long, McLean etc.

What rubbish and an unfair slur on Winmar who is a pretty modest and unassuming guy. He has never taken full credit.

That photo of him however was a major turning point though in the public psyche on racism in football in Australia. Prior to that it happened and no one really commented on it. After that pic more and more of the media and the public starting talking about the issue and it became mainstream.

 

[TheShardMan]

What rubbish and an unfair slur on Winmar who is a pretty modest and unassuming guy. He has never taken full credit.

That photo of him however was a major turning point though in the public psyche on racism in football in Australia. Prior to that it happened and no one really commented on it. After that pic more and more of the media and the public starting talking about the issue and it became mainstream.

When that incident at vic park happened it made news for a few days then was put on the backburner. Quite a lot of ppl including media and some players said he was pointing at his gut and nothing to do with skin. It was only when the micheal long -monkhorst incident happened that racism was finally addressed.

Not trying to slur him. But in the late 90s his reputation even that at St Kilda was tarnished due to bad behaviour. As time went on and the 93 incident became more and more 'revered', his image improved. Not against a statue of him, reckon it's at the wrong place. That's all. Also there should be one of Lewis and Long as well.

 

[Occidental]

When that incident at vic park happened it made news for a few days then was put on the backburner. Quite a lot of ppl including media and some players said he was pointing at his gut and nothing to do with skin. It was only when the micheal long -monkhorst incident happened that racism was finally addressed.

Not trying to slur him. But in the late 90s his reputation even that at St Kilda was tarnished due to bad behaviour. As time went on and the 93 incident became more and more 'revered', his image improved. Not against a statue of him, reckon it's at the wrong place. That's all. Also there should be one of Lewis and Long as well.

100% correct.

 

[Dazzler9]

The photo became iconic though. Its importance is in its symbolism.

 

[Occidental]

The photo became iconic though. Its importance is in its symbolism.

I agree. It’s a brilliant iconic photo and what has been made of it is brilliant too.
It’s just grown into something really valuable, regardless of what actually happened on the day.
We needed a symbol and we have a magnificent one.

 

[theyellowsash]

but what about the statue of a white guy they arent building #reverseracism

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Can you call 2 ppl a march? Haha

Unpopular opinion but this statue is in the wrong place. It belongs in Melbourne. If anything the statue at Optus should be of Chris Lewis. He was the first one who really fought back against racism on field. And for that he got handed multiple suspensions and a reputation as a thug. Still staggers me how Winmar and the media have been able to change the narrative to the extent that he takes full credit for putting a spotlight on racism. Nah, the real hero's are guys like Lewis, Long, McLean etc.

i have read some stupid things in my time but you take the cake ...
WA represents 1600 loyal proud members of the saints .. (how many do freo have outside of WA??)

your comment on Lewis's reputation being the result of racism on field is pretty fair i would say but unlike Winmar who made a symbolic protest to the treatment he copped Lewis just smacked blokes who abused him ... you want to talk about reputation tarnished on retaliation for racial abuse look no further than Robbie Muir , he still wears the name maddog after retaliation for abuse (years before Lewis) a statue for lewis is the wrong message facing racial abuse with violence doesnt solve anything hence it took the non-violent act of Winmar to start the change .. Michael Long being more articulate and more welcome to the exposure took the reighns off Winmar and drove the changes both men are champions to the cause of removing racisim in footy Chris Lewis was just a victim of it ...

 

[zucchini]

Hopefully the statue does him justice. He was a fantastic player and one of my favourites to watch.

Also such an iconic image of him lifting his jumper at Vic Park will be a part of footy history forever.

Well deserved for a champion.

View attachment 702418

Did he cop a fine for giving the bird?

 

[Occidental]

Did he cop a fine for giving the bird?

Hmmmm, I take it you’ve noticed which finger he points with in that famous photo. It’s the same one he used to flip the bird to the crowd to rile them up.
What really happened that day is not quite what people think, but it doesn’t matter - the symbolism is really important.
The Pies fan were bad, but some actions associated with this photo are never mentioned. Winmar was a great great player and a larrikin.
I’m all for a statue, so long as they remember to use his middle finger.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

but what about the statue of a white guy they arent building #reverseracism

sorry i stand corrected ... this is the stupidest comment i have read

 

[TheShardMan]

i have read some stupid things in my time but you take the cake ...
WA represents 1600 loyal proud members of the saints .. (how many do freo have outside of WA??)

your comment on Lewis's reputation being the result of racism on field is pretty fair i would say but unlike Winmar who made a symbolic protest to the treatment he copped Lewis just smacked blokes who abused him ... you want to talk about reputation tarnished on retaliation for racial abuse look no further than Robbie Muir , he still wears the name maddog after retaliation for abuse (years before Lewis) a statue for lewis is the wrong message facing racial abuse with violence doesnt solve anything hence it took the non-violent act of Winmar to start the change .. Michael Long being more articulate and more welcome to the exposure took the reighns off Winmar and drove the changes both men are champions to the cause of removing racisim in footy Chris Lewis was just a victim of it ...

No need to get so defensive about ur numbers. was just a joke.

regarding winmar, all im saying is that the statue should be in Melbourne(where the incident occurred). A statue of Lewis would resonate more over here in WA. And that's coming from a Dockers fan. I'm sure saints fans would want to pay respects to a winmar statue. Pretty hard when it's at the other side of the country.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

When that incident at vic park happened it made news for a few days then was put on the backburner. Quite a lot of ppl including media and some players said he was pointing at his gut and nothing to do with skin. It was only when the micheal long -monkhorst incident happened that racism was finally addressed.

Not trying to slur him. But in the late 90s his reputation even that at St Kilda was tarnished due to bad behaviour. As time went on and the 93 incident became more and more 'revered', his image improved. Not against a statue of him, reckon it's at the wrong place. That's all. Also there should be one of Lewis and Long as well.

you are right the photo was put on the back burner it was pushed aside it started a conversation but it never really got up for a couple of reasons one being Nickys want to not have the spotlight on him ... the events after that like Michael Long brought it to the front again and with Long more capable and willing to be the spokesman for it then it got off the ground .. it wouldnt have started without Nicky but it wouldnt have continued and made impact without Long ...
the only people who made that connection that he was pointing to his guts not his skin were the collingwood spindoctors who were not liking the spot light on them .. read the comments of the then Collingwood president and that explains clearly why they tried to push that side of the story ...

the place of the statue is in Perth as Nicky is a noongah man who is proud of his Noongah herritage so his statue should be standing on Noongah land ...

 

[DirtySandman]

That image certainly has become iconic, and I’m happy for a statue to be put at Optus stadium.

Does remind me of something iconic, that was lauded by some, that shouldn’t have been, one good photo of Che Guevara, and then decades later, silly uni students had a murderer as their idol.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Hmmmm, I take it you’ve noticed which finger he points with in that famous photo. It’s the same one he used to flip the bird to the crowd to rile them up.
What really happened that day is not quite what people think, but it doesn’t matter - the symbolism is really important.
The Pies fan were bad, but some actions associated with this photo are never mentioned. Winmar was a great great player and a larrikin.
I’m all for a statue, so long as they remember to use his middle finger.

get off it ... the coolingwood fans were feral that day ... they were into both Nicky and Gilly in the friggin warm up ... dont try and taint it as "there was more to it" far out... i know collingwood are proud and loyal to their team but just admit it was an ugly day for your club and you have worked hard since to retify it .. Collingwood were not alone though the indig guys copped it everywhere .. even the St Kilda fans were not immune to racist taunts in that era but that day at that moment it was enough !! it could have been any ground but it wasnt it was your ground