Opinion Non-Crows AFL 12: It's the confectionery with 1000 uses

[Peter Doherty]

This doesn't confirm anything, other than the fact that they were given an exemption, allowing them to count Horne towards their 1st round picks - which we knew anyway.

It could very well be argued that they have 2x 1st round picks from 2021 - Sinn & JHF, which allowed them to meet the requirement in 2024 (when they traded out their 1st round pick for Luko/Atkins). The 2021 draftees now fall out of the 4-year window, so it's only 2022-2025 that matters this year.

I think it does confirm he counted as a 2022 first.

The reason they were able to trade out the 2025 first is JHF counts towards the 2 in 4 and they got the Berry pick in thanks to Houston.

This is what the rolling 4 year looks like with JHF counted as a 2022 first...

2022 JHF
2023 -
2024 Berry
2025 -

This is what it looks like as a 2021 first...

2022 -
2023 -
2024 Berry
2025 -

As you can see above, if JHF counted as a 2021 first, they would not have been allowed to trade out their 2025 first. It would have left them with just 1 pick in the 4 year period.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I think it does confirm he counted as a 2022 first.

The reason they were able to trade out the 2025 first is JHF counts towards the 2 in 4 and they got the Berry pick in thanks to Houston.

This is what the rolling 4 year looks like with JHF counted as a 2022 first...

2022 JHF
2023 -
2024 Berry
2025 -

This is what it looks like as a 2021 first...

2022 -
2023 -
2024 Berry
2025 -

As you can see above, if JHF counted as a 2021 first, they would not have been allowed to trade out their 2025 first. It would have left them with just 1 pick in the 4 year period.

Im not a Port fan but the trading obsession has really screwed over their list. I wonder if Carr will demand they hit the draft hard over the next few years.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Im not a Port fan but the trading obsession has really screwed over their list. I wonder if Carr will demand they hit the draft hard over the next few years.

Probably more likely he wants players not picks.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Probably more likely he wants players not picks.

then it will be more of the same. I dont mind. Trading in players is what you do to support and improve a developed list. Only one way to fix a cactus list and thats the draft.

 

[Vader]

I think it does confirm he counted as a 2022 first.

The reason they were able to trade out the 2025 first is JHF counts towards the 2 in 4 and they got the Berry pick in thanks to Houston.

This is what the rolling 4 year looks like with JHF counted as a 2022 first...

2022 JHF
2023 -
2024 Berry
2025 -

This is what it looks like as a 2021 first...

2022 -
2023 -
2024 Berry
2025 -

As you can see above, if JHF counted as a 2021 first, they would not have been allowed to trade out their 2025 first. It would have left them with just 1 pick in the 4 year period.

I believe (though I can't prove) that the 2nd scenario is correct - in which case Port need to trade in a 1st, which they have to use in 2025.

 

[50BC]

We know that clubs are required to use 2x 1st round picks in the 4-year rolling window, and that exceptions are granted for 1st round picks (players) who are traded in (e.g. JHF).

What we don't know is how the AFL counts those players - are they counted against the year that they were originally drafted (JHF - 2021) or the year that the club traded for them (JHF - 2022)?

In 2024, JHF would have counted towards Port's quota regardless of whether he was counted against 2021 or 2022. However, 2021 now falls out of the rolling window, so now it matters.

All I can say, is in 2016 which is the only time I've seen it explained, they allowed for the possibility of some "trades" in exceptional circumstances as counting towards the 2 in 4 depending such things as players age and experience etc at the AFLs discretion. So I have always read that as being the trade for JHF that counts for Port not his original draft. But thats just my interpretation, there was never any official public announcement that I'm aware of.

 

[Peter Doherty]

I believe (though I can't prove) that the 2nd scenario is correct - in which case Port need to trade in a 1st, which they have to use in 2025.

The only way your suggestion works is, the AFL would allow clubs to go into a season in breach of the 2 in 4 rule and give them a chance to bring in a pick before the trade/draft period is over in that year.

I've just assumed the AFL would not allow that.
.

 

[footy4ever]

Geez Port's drafting has been rubbish lately. Yeah, they've had no decent picks, but that doesn't look like changing any time soon. Just look at some of these names:

2022
Pick 36 - Tom McCallum. Zero games, delisted.
Pick 53 - Thomas Scully. Zero games, delisted.
Pick 59 - Kyle Marshall. Zero games, delisted.
Rookie pick 8 - Dylan Williams. 28 games so far, has had exactly one disposal in 2025.
Mid-season draft - Brynn Teakle. Six games for Port, delisted, now at North Melbourne.

2023
Pick 48 - Tom Anastasopoulos. Zero games, emergency a couple of times.
Pick 52 - Lachlan Charleson. Zero games, not even close to selection.
Pick 57 - Will Lorenz. Five games including three as the sub. Has been dropped four times.
Rookie pick 13 - Xavier Walsh. Zero games, multiple SANFL suspensions, now on the inactive list.
Mid-season draft - Quinton Narkle. Sixteen games, delisted, now at Fremantle.


You'd think you could hit on at least one pick, but at this stage Dylan Williams is the best result from those two years.

From 2021, you're talking Sinn at pick 12 (disappointment), Jackson as an academy player (finally debuted this year), Visentini at pick 56 (backup to the backup), Burgoyne as a F/S (whipping boy), and rookie selections Mayes and Dumont (both delisted). Amusingly, their biggest success from 2021 is every Port supporter's favourite player, Jed McEntee (47 games) from the mid-season draft!

You have to go back to 2020 when they got Lachlan Jones as an academy player for cheap to find the last time they actually had a win in the draft.

They had five first-round selections in 2018-19, and hit with at least four of them (Rozee, Butters, Bergman, Georgiades... and arguably Duursma). They've had two in the five seasons since (Sinn and Berry) and won't have one this year either.

Putting all their eggs in the trade basket...

But but they've set themselves up for the next ten years I tells ya!!!

 

[Mostyn]

All I can say, is in 2016 which is the only time I've seen it explained, they allowed for the possibility of some "trades" in exceptional circumstances as counting towards the 2 in 4 depending such things as players age and experience etc at the AFLs discretion. So I have always read that as being the trade for JHF that counts for Port not his original draft. But thats just my interpretation, there was never any official public announcement that I'm aware of.

I think the most logical reading is that Port "used" a first in 2022 on JHF. That is the pick that would be counted, not the one used by the other side. It's when they use draft capital themselves.

 

[Crowbling]

But but they've set themselves up for the next ten years I tells ya!!!

If Lachie Jones is a win, you have lost.

 

[arrowman]

It could very well be argued that they have 2x 1st round picks from 2021 - Sinn & JHF, which allowed them to meet the requirement in 2024 (when they traded out their 1st round pick for Luko/Atkins). The 2021 draftees now fall out of the 4-year window, so it's only 2022-2025 that matters this year.

Maybe, but the relevant window now, for a trade for NWM, is 2023-2026 (if they want to trade their 2026 1st). And that's where it falls over without them trading one in.

 

[Mutineer]

That trade was unfathomable. North should have been investigated for that, and either found guilty of corruption, or else de-registered and sold off for parts.

They gave up their 2025 first round pick (currently pick 2) to get pick 27, and Richmond's 2025 second round pick which will be somewhere out in the mid 20s or later by the time academy picks are taken.

Pick 2 for a couple of picks in the mid 20s... unthinkable. That wouldn't even be enough to match an academy bid at pick 2.

They took Matt Whitlock with pick 27, I guess we'll see who they get this year. One game so far this year, but he is a 197cm swingman. They can't all be Dan Curtin and play multiple games in their first year, I guess. Meanwhile Richmond look likely to end up with picks 2 and 3 this year.

Both the Whitlock twins were tall skinny lads when drafted so I don't think anybody was expecting them to set the AFL world on fire year one. At least they didn't draft another midfielder.

 

[Vader]

All I can say, is in 2016 which is the only time I've seen it explained, they allowed for the possibility of some "trades" in exceptional circumstances as counting towards the 2 in 4 depending such things as players age and experience etc at the AFLs discretion. So I have always read that as being the trade for JHF that counts for Port not his original draft. But thats just my interpretation, there was never any official public announcement that I'm aware of.

Hence the confusion...

Logic says that they made the exemption rule, so that clubs could count 1st round pick/players traded in (e.g. JHF) who were drafted inside the last 4 years. Extending this logic, those players should still only count in the 4-year window from when they were originally drafted.

If we allow players to be counted from when they are traded, then we could have players still being counted 7 years after they were originally drafted - making a complete mockery of the rule. If JHF counts towards Port's 2022 count then this will be the 5th year in which he has counted as a 1st round pick used in the last 4 years. It's a complete nonsense.

Given that the AFL have never clarified this rule since its introduction, maybe it's time we asked them to clarify exactly how it works, pointing out the logic flaw I highlighted above. If we can throw a spanner in the Port works, then I see that as being an entirely good thing!

 

[Vader]

The only way your suggestion works is, the AFL would allow clubs to go into a season in breach of the 2 in 4 rule and give them a chance to bring in a pick before the trade/draft period is over in that year.

I've just assumed the AFL would not allow that.
.

This is exactly what I am suggesting. The AFL has given them enough rope, now they are waiting to see if Port hang themselves.

There is no logical reason why JHF should count as a 1st round pick in the 2022 draft, and every logical reason why he should be counted against the 2021 draft. Then again, AFL and logic are not two words commonly associated with each other.

 

[Mutineer]

Why wouldn't the Powa already have sought clarity from the AFL if they have any doubts? Wouldn't his manager Ben Williams already be wanting to know how both Adelaide clubs intend to get the deal done if NWM decided SA is his destination?

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Uggggh, Don Pyk wanting draft assistance after West Coast being ****ing stupid trading down draft picks in the last years.

There whole list management should be sacked if they want draft help

Norf have done the same for a decade now and they keep getting help.

 

[Vader]

Why wouldn't the Powa already have sought clarity from the AFL if they have any doubts? Wouldn't his manager Ben Williams already be wanting to know how both Adelaide clubs intend to get the deal done if NWM decided SA is his destination?

Why didn't we seek clarity over Ross Gibbs' eligibility? If you don't draw attention to a problem, then the AFL is less likely to rule against you.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

The Vic rage at the Eagles asking for draft help is hilarious, can we stop financial support for the crap Victorian teams then?

 

[AFC979810]

Even then, it rarely seems to work out that well in the end. Consider the likes of Liam Stocker, or even Josh Sinn. Curtin is the outlier scenario where it seems to have worked out (so far at least!)

It would be nice if Taylor can solidify a spot and become another example.

How many live trades have there been where a team actively traded in the moment to secure a guy they loved - Curtin/Stocker and Sinn.

1/3 worked out which would probably be about the usual success rates for every draftee.

 

[AFC979810]

The Vic rage at the Eagles asking for draft help is hilarious, can we stop financial support for the crap Victorian teams then?

Rage is justified. They won a flag 7 years ago. They shouldn't get a bonus pick.

They traded pick 3 for Baker, Owies and pick 12 just last year.

 

[PeterSalt]

Rage is justified. They won a flag 7 years ago. They shouldn't get a bonus pick.

They traded pick 3 for Baker, Owies and pick 12 just last year.

It's worse when you consider the last 20 years

They've actually played in 4 GF and won 2


Edit: someone else made the comment it possibly a ploy to ensure they are gifted band 1 for Allen (which seems plausible in this league)

 

[daniel_4tw]

Rage is justified. They won a flag 7 years ago. They shouldn't get a bonus pick.

They traded pick 3 for Baker, Owies and pick 12 just last year.

This.

They won a flag more recently than 13 other teams. No way they should be getting assistance.

Someone else said it, but a condition of a priority pick is you need to fire your list manager. Have some accountability.

- 3 first rounders for Tim Kelly

- Pick 2 and Rioli for 8 and 12 (JHF trade)

- Pick 3 (in the hottest draft this decade) for Baker and 12.

Bunch of fringe players and junk picks throughout those trades.

This is bad management. Don’t give them another pick just so they can trade it away for peanuts to another Victorian team.

West Coast will be fine. Rich club, huge supporter base, and history of competing. They can get themselves out of this with hard work.

If I was Essendon, or Saint Kilda, us, or any other club that hasn’t tasted success in a long time I’d be pissed.

It doesn’t sit right with me me that Melbourne won a flag before us when they got hand outs.

Priority picks should not exist. It’s just another way to **** with the draft.

I’m all for help when they’re compromising the league, but giving a struggling team and 18 year old isn’t going to make a difference in the short term, but may turn them into a juggernaut in 5 years.

Let them have a temporary larger salary cap. It would allow them to pay overs to get good players to come (who would prefer to go to a contender). Maybe more list spots so they can load up on B graders while still keeping kids on the team.

 

[Scorpus]

You shouldn't be able to ask for or receive draft assistance unless you agree to sack everyone involved with the mismanagement

Minimum you should have to dissolve the board entirely (put to a fresh full members vote) and then various positions like head of football and list manager are instantly sacked too

If you're admitting incompetence (which asking for draft handouts is doing) the AFL should hold you accountable as a result

 

[Mutineer]

 

[radiojake]

this popped up on reddit yesterday


i guess when there are a million calls made on bigfooty every day, you're gonna get a few hits