Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Thread X

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

How the hell are Collingwood running out the game so well with so many young players? Or is that just because Carlton are so shite?

Nah Carlton are just shite played against witches hats tonight.

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

Starting to feel sympathy for Carlton. Is that bad?

 

[eth-dog]

Starting to feel sympathy for Carlton. Is that bad?

Yes. Go outside, turn around 3 times, curse and spit.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Starting to feel sympathy for Carlton. Is that bad?

This has been the worst iv'e seen Carlton out of all my years of watching footy.

 

[Marley10]

Why can't we smash teams consistently like this

Friday Nights are going to be very boring this year. I just can't believe that Carlton have 6 of them. Yes SIX and 1 Thursday Night game. Making it 7 in total!
UGHHH

 

[eth-dog]

Why can't we smash teams consistently like this

Friday Nights are going to be very boring this year. I just can't believe that Carlton have 6 of them. Yes SIX and 1 Thursday Night game. Making it 7 in total!
UGHHH

It's not that boring. We get to see Carlton destroyed .

 

[Ashton Agar]

This has been the worst iv'e seen Carlton out of all my years of watching footy.

They were pretty horrendous in he mid-2000s.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

They were pretty horrendous in he mid-2000s.

Yeah true but this is worse I reckon.

 

[Marley10]

It's not that boring. We get to see Carlton destroyed .

Yeah but we can get that enjoyment on Sundays as well. Imagine winding down after the week to watch those spuds play.
North vs Hawthorn is a much better alternative to this crap.

If they are getting smashed by West Coast and Collingwood on Friday Nights, what are Hawthorn and Sydney in Sydney going to do to them?

 

[eth-dog]

Yeah but we can get that enjoyment on Sundays as well. Imagine winding down after the week to watch those spuds play.
North vs Hawthorn is a much better alternative to this crap.

If they are getting smashed by West Coast and Collingwood on Friday Nights, what are Hawthorn and Sydney in Sydney going to do to them?

Is 190 in danger? (from '79, Fitzroy (RIP) over Melbourne)

 

[eth-dog]

In any case, I wrote this down in the "Carlton are putrid" thread on the main board. Think it's relevant here:

Let's break down the players on the list:

Good players that won't be part of their next flag: Walker, Murphy, Gibbs (debatable), Judd, Simpson, Rowe, Thomas, Jamison.
Experienced players that are crap: Kreuzer, Warnock, Jones, Armfield, Everitt (debatable), Curnow, Wood, Casboult, White, Carrazzo, Ellard
Good players that have time on their side: Menzel, Cripps, Yarran, Docherty, Henderson, Tuohy
Unproven young players: Buckley, Watson, Boekhurst, Viojo-Rainbow, Jaksch, Giles, Holman, Sheehan, Tutt, Whiley, Smith, Foster, Bell, Gowers, Johnson, Dick, Graham, Walsh, Fields, Byrne, Russell

That list profile is pretty poor. Of the last list, 19 of them have played less that 20 games, the equivalent of a full season. Of the 2nd group, you have 3 who've played less than 50 games, which is simply unacceptable for a club that was widely tipped for a bottom 6 finish. For all the "don't blame Mick" crap, he's not playing the kids, when in reality it's what they should be doing.

Now they should keep half of the top group and retire/trade the other half. Judd is going to retire this season, Simpson also a possibility. You keep 1 of Rowe and Jamison, probably Rowe. Keep 2 or 3 of Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas.

A template for the rest of the season (with everyone fit):

Tuohy - Jamison - ??? (Giles)
Walker - Rowe - Simpson
Murphy - Judd - Docherty
Yarran - Henderson - Thomas
Menzel - Jaksch - ??? (Foster)
Warnock - Gibbs - Cripps
??? - ??? - ??? - ??? (Rotation of Buckley, Boekhurst, Viojo-Rainbow, Holman, Sheehan, Whiley, Johnson, Graham, Fields, Byrne)

 

[vast]

All I have to say is that I am going to thoroughly enjoy this carlscum slump!

 

[Halftimehero]

**** Carlton

 

[Cosmogramma]

The Blues may as well let Geoffrey Edelsten hop out of the box and chuck on the boots, that was embarrassing.

 

[Doss]

Harsh on Kreuzer given his injury problems.

 

[eth-dog]

Harsh on Kreuzer given his injury problems.

His injuries will take his biggest strength (mobility) back to the pack in that regard, as well as having pretty shit as a forward and at the stoppage.

 

[Duckworth]

In any case, I wrote this down in the "Carlton are putrid" thread on the main board. Think it's relevant here:

Let's break down the players on the list:

Good players that won't be part of their next flag: Walker, Murphy, Gibbs (debatable), Judd, Simpson, Rowe, Thomas, Jamison.
Experienced players that are crap: Kreuzer, Warnock, Jones, Armfield, Everitt (debatable), Curnow, Wood, Casboult, White, Carrazzo, Ellard
Good players that have time on their side: Menzel, Cripps, Yarran, Docherty, Henderson, Tuohy
Unproven young players: Buckley, Watson, Boekhurst, Viojo-Rainbow, Jaksch, Giles, Holman, Sheehan, Tutt, Whiley, Smith, Foster, Bell, Gowers, Johnson, Dick, Graham, Walsh, Fields, Byrne, Russell

That list profile is pretty poor. Of the last list, 19 of them have played less that 20 games, the equivalent of a full season. Of the 2nd group, you have 3 who've played less than 50 games, which is simply unacceptable for a club that was widely tipped for a bottom 6 finish. For all the "don't blame Mick" crap, he's not playing the kids, when in reality it's what they should be doing.

Now they should keep half of the top group and retire/trade the other half. Judd is going to retire this season, Simpson also a possibility. You keep 1 of Rowe and Jamison, probably Rowe. Keep 2 or 3 of Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas.

A template for the rest of the season (with everyone fit):

Tuohy - Jamison - ??? (Giles)
Walker - Rowe - Simpson
Murphy - Judd - Docherty
Yarran - Henderson - Thomas
Menzel - Jaksch - ??? (Foster)
Warnock - Gibbs - Cripps
??? - ??? - ??? - ??? (Rotation of Buckley, Boekhurst, Viojo-Rainbow, Holman, Sheehan, Whiley, Johnson, Graham, Fields, Byrne)

I would be demoralised if I was a Carlton supporter after reading that. Hurts way more than a simple 'your team is rubbish'.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

A question prompted by a few things:
- The ongoing financial struggles of the smaller Melbourne clubs.
- The sad eclipse of traditional non-Victorian clubs (eg. everyone who was anyone bar Port Adelaide).
- The lack of real shits anyone gives about the expansion clubs.
- Fitzroy keeping the flame alive in the VAFA.
- Talk of the soccer club I play for joining an FA-affiliated league, and hence the ~7000-team-strong English football pyramid.

So: Can you have effective equalisation without a draft? Would tightly-enforced and tiered salary caps across multiple divisions be sufficient to maintain a fair and competitive environment? A tiered competition would have allowed legitimate national expansion without essentially disregarding the contribution of three leagues that were every bit as important as the VFL, while giving clubs fallen on hard times an alternative to folding through dropping to a more appropriate level while retaining the future possibility of returning to the top flight.

You wouldn't need to replace the draft with anything, as such. Zones would be unnecessary (or perhaps implemented only at a junior level), with players at an age eligible for seniors recruited from their junior clubs (potentially via elite development academies) in exchange for some formulaic compensation, while cap and list constraints and free agency would facilitate player movement later on.

Perhaps big, well run clubs would simply have too great an entrenched advantage through being more attractive destinations for elite juniors, but that could be further addressed through off-field spending constraints and redistribution of TV and gate income.

 

[Burzum]

The Blues may as well let Geoffrey Edelsten hop out of the box and chuck on the boots, that was embarrassing.

Yeah, I completely agree. I understand he's donated a lot of money to the club previously and may continue doing so but it appears that a lot of people didn't like the look of that this evening. It is a slightly trivial thing considering the performance on field tonight but Carlton need to do away, at least publicly, with those sorts of people.

I'm sure we all get some enjoyment about Carlton being in the position they currently are, but that will get old after awhile. They have massive problems with their list and it could be a long term Melbourne-like scenario. Personally I'd get more enjoyment of us both being great sides and playing them in finals, with the Essendon winning as the result of course.

 

[The Speaker]

A question prompted by a few things:
- The ongoing financial struggles of the smaller Melbourne clubs.
- The sad eclipse of traditional non-Victorian clubs (eg. everyone who was anyone bar Port Adelaide).
- The lack of real shits anyone gives about the expansion clubs.
- Fitzroy keeping the flame alive in the VAFA.
- Talk of the soccer club I play for joining an FA-affiliated league, and hence the ~7000-team-strong English football pyramid.

So: Can you have effective equalisation without a draft? Would tightly-enforced and tiered salary caps across multiple divisions be sufficient to maintain a fair and competitive environment? A tiered competition would have allowed legitimate national expansion without essentially disregarding the contribution of three leagues that were every bit as important as the VFL, while giving clubs fallen on hard times an alternative to folding through dropping to a more appropriate level while retaining the future possibility of returning to the top flight.

You wouldn't need to replace the draft with anything, as such. Zones would be unnecessary (or perhaps implemented only at a junior level), with players at an age eligible for seniors recruited from their junior clubs (potentially via elite development academies) in exchange for some formulaic compensation, while cap and list constraints and free agency would facilitate player movement later on.

Perhaps big, well run clubs would simply have too great an entrenched advantage through being more attractive destinations for elite juniors, but that could be further addressed through off-field spending constraints and redistribution of TV and gate income.

I think it could work. Certainly, it should've happened in the first place.

 

[yaco55]

Here's one for eth-dog.

Pat Cripps is a young Jobe.

Definitely similarities - As long as he can develop his outside game.

Back to the game - Calton is seriously bad, and I expect them to finish 16th or 17th. I doubt they will improve in 2016 and the 2015 draft supposedly lacks depth.

I doubt that D.Buckley is AFL standard and Henderson is over-rated - Henderson is only an average AFL player.

I never seen a team fumble and mishandle ground balls like Carlton tonight - That's the primary reason why Carlton couldn't hit a target all night.

And poor Channel 7 continues to get dud games on a Friday night. I don't have high hopes for Collingwood VS Geelong next week. Seven will have to wait for the Essendon VS Kangaroos game for a decent Friday night game.

 

[yaco55]

Buckley goes alright.

Doubt he is AFL standard.

And I am yet to be convinced by Jacksch.

 

[yaco55]

Who played on Elliott on Anzac Day ?

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Baguley.

 

[Cosmogramma]

Yeah, I completely agree. I understand he's donated a lot of money to the club previously and may continue doing so but it appears that a lot of people didn't like the look of that this evening. It is a slightly trivial thing considering the performance on field tonight but Carlton need to do away, at least publicly, with those sorts of people.

I'm sure we all get some enjoyment about Carlton being in the position they currently are, but that will get old after awhile. They have massive problems with their list and it could be a long term Melbourne-like scenario. Personally I'd get more enjoyment of us both being great sides and playing them in finals, with the Essendon winning as the result of course.

Was more making a joke that he could have performed better than some of their players. But yes, also agree with everything you're saying.