Not again, McDermott.

[NikkiNoo]

Why are you all so interested in what we're doing anyway? I thought you would all be getting carried away with the brains trust that you've managed to assemble.

Ahh JP83 - "know thine enemy like thyself" we are interested in what goes on in the other clubs, this is a competition after all and if there wasn't the other teams then there wouldn't be a competition. I like to think that most of us on here are actually pretty fair in our assessment of our own team. We will support them and at the moment it is looking a lot more positive for us this year than some of the journos are making it out to be (adelaide media asside who really have no idea)

 

[macca23]

Why are you all so interested in what we're doing anyway? I thought you would all be getting carried away with the brains trust that you've managed to assemble.

Don't flatter yourself or your team - I don't give a hairy what either you or they do.

My criticism of the appointments was directed at McDermott's fawning adulating (should that be flatulation?) description of them, followed by only query marks about the Crows panel.

I don't give a fat rat's toss-bag if your aunty becomes the skills coach at Port, but I would comment if and when McDermott described it as a touch of genius!!

It was a commentary on the lack of balance in his so-called journalism.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Mickan has come in to replace pittman. Pittman did a good job, however he was only at the club part time and i would have thought that a lot of what he knew was as a result of what he was taught by mickan.
Mcguinness has replaced clarkson. No doubt clarkson is the better coach, however his role obviously wasnt that important as he was not required for the finals campaign and not replaced and wew still won the flag.

I tell you what, we will swap you McGuinness and Mickan for Alan Stewart. Now to make it nice and fair, who else do you want us to throw in?

 

[baaaallllll]

Bones is a bonehead , who has a good head for radio and with all the knocks in the head he has taken over his career I am surprised he has the mental capacity to turn on a computer and write an article.

However I have a question, are we overrating the assistant coaches roles?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Well that's something i was never aware of & that's all the more reason i guess for his continuing anti Crow propaganda.

In any case don't be at all surprised to find that McDermott becomes the latest addition to Mark Williams coaching panel this time next year.

As for the Port Powers present coaching panel well if they are successful this year then McDermott can feel justified some what to his statements of yesterday but as i have said on the Paps board if they happen to go belly-up in 05 well their supporters have 2 fine targets to lay the blame on.

As for all the super recruits/replacements the paps are supposed to have in their back pocket ready & primed to take over from their "well known" aging list well once again as with all clubs time will tell if any at all of the young guns will be good enough to take over from those that will fall away due to age or recurring injury problems.

Now Noddy, wasn't it you who advised us on the Port Board that by bleating about the media all we are doing is demonstrating our insecurity ... ?

 

[Portia]

Here's a theoretical Chris McDermott perspective.

McDermott = failed SANFL coach, Crows captain

Rohde = premiership winning SANFL coach
Williams = premiership winning SANFL coach
Mickan = finals winning SANFL coach
McGuinness = Crows captain, failed SANFL coach
and the existing Port staff

as opposed to...

Stewart = finals winning SANFL coach
Hamilton = finals winning SANFL coach
Redden = a good ruckman
Noble = didn't get Glenelg anywhere
Pyke = Who?
and the existing Crows staff.

Its not too hard to see why he thinks Port did so well - he obviously still rates SANFL qualifications.

 

[Macca19]

I thought McDemott's article today in the Sunday Mail demonstrated where he really sits in the football world.

He states very definitely that Port have improved their football department significantly with the appointment of McGuinness (failed SANFL coach, never coached at AFL level, certain personal and moral failings) Stephen Williams (never coached at AFL level) Mark Mickan (non-required AFC asst coach) and Peter Rhode (disastrous AFL coach). In fact he goes as far as to describe this as being a huge coup!!

Since when was coaching at AFL level a must to become an assistant coach/football manager? The people the Crows appointed havent coached at AFL level or won an SANFL premiership either. Nor would have 95% of the assitants in the AFL.

 

[Macca19]

IMO those are possibly the worst assistant coaches going around and Port have them all, if i was a Port supporter/member I would be very disapointed

haha hilarious. What the hell have Don Pyke, David Noble and Paul Hamilton ever done? I dont believe they have the runs on the board either.

I love it how Crows supporters usually have a go at Port people for turning on people that leave our club.

Couple years back everyone on this board would have told you that the Crows had the most effective ruck combo in the league. Who was their coach? Mickan. Now hes a failure and a dud that hes at Port.

Peter Rohde takes over as a Football Manager...not as Head Coach. Failure as Head Coach at the worst club in the league does not mean you will be a failure in every single role in a football department. I cant recall David Noble winning a premiership at Glenelg or anywhere else. You all think he is a good pickup.

Stephen Williams...a lot of people on here thought he would be a good pickup for the Crows. Now hes a dud cos he hasnt coached at AFL level. Yet Don Pyke has??

We stil have Bailey (our no.1 assitant by far), Walsh (done a good job), Morris and Hutton.

The only terrible decision i believe the club has made has been Tony Mcguiness. Losing Stewart also is a big loss.

I dont think we will lose or gain anything from losing Pittman and gaining Mickan. Rohde should do ok as FM and Williams is an excellent choice as helping out develop the younger players.

 

[noddy]

Now Noddy, wasn't it you who advised us on the Port Board that by bleating about the media all we are doing is demonstrating our insecurity ... ?

Might have, might not

In any regards McDermott is not in my opinion a creditable member of the media just someone with a grudge& not afraid to show it.

 

[Macca19]

Why am I a clown, is it becuase I don't accept your biased dribble as gospel?

So its ok for the Crows supporters to blow over Gibson, Van Berlo, Meeson, Knights etc and claim they have the best future in the AFL...but its not ok for us to say that we have good backups in Chaplin, Pettigrew, Surjan, Salopek, Ebert waiting in the wings?? Wouldnt want to hear you say a good word about your new draft picks again. According to what you say, they havent played a game yet so they could be craphouse.

If you have adequate replacements for Wakelin, Bishop, Wangas then why aren't they being played?

Bishop was our number 1 defender this year...yes lets drop our best defender. Wanganeen almost won a Brownlow last year...yup, lets play him in the SANFL all year...that makes sense. Wakelin i agree with. We had problems with long term injuries to all of our backup defenders this year. Chaplin was on the verge of replacing Wakelin then missed 15 weeks of football with knee surgery. Pettigrew played the first two AFL games then missed 12 weeks with a back injury. Gilham missed 16 weeks with hamstring injury. RFK missed 21 weeks with hamstring tendonitis. Surjan missed 12 weeks after foot surgery. Salopek missed 10 weeks after Glandular Fever. Peel was playing crap football in the reserves. We played kids early...then they got injured pretty much all in a 3 week period. Puts us in a tricky position. Later on in the year we were consistantly winning games of football so why would we make wholesale changes to our lineup when we won 13 of our last 14 games (including the finals), are top of the ladder and aiming for a premiership. Your trying to tell me that we should have dropped our older guys for the younger ones come Round 19-21 just to blood youngsters? Odd way to coach.

Surely, a youngester of the same ability should be picked before an over 30 yo player.

Whyw ould you drop someone like Wanganeen? He won us the premiership. Speaks for itself. Why drop Bishop whos having his best year and is our no.1 stopping defender? Why drop Monty when he still wins his position every week? Why drop James or Wilson when they are our clutch players.

Had Chaplin, Surjan, Salopek, Pettigrew, Gilham and RFK not missed 3 months of football each at the same time then im sure they would have played quite a few games this year. Chpalin had a small taste, was on the brink before injury. Surjan played 5 of the first 6 or 7 games then got injured. Pettigrew played the first 2 then got injured. Gilham was our most impressive young player in the pre season then got injured. RFK had a spot open in the side but got injured. What can you do?

 

[noddy]

haha hilarious. What the hell have Don Pyke, David Noble and Paul Hamilton ever done? I dont believe they have the runs on the board either.

I love it how Crows supporters usually have a go at Port people for turning on people that leave our club.

Couple years back everyone on this board would have told you that the Crows had the most effective ruck combo in the league. Who was their coach? Mickan. Now hes a failure and a dud that hes at Port.

Peter Rohde takes over as a Football Manager...not as Head Coach. Failure as Head Coach at the worst club in the league does not mean you will be a failure in every single role in a football department. I cant recall David Noble winning a premiership at Glenelg or anywhere else. You all think he is a good pickup.

Stephen Williams...a lot of people on here thought he would be a good pickup for the Crows. Now hes a dud cos he hasnt coached at AFL level. Yet Don Pyke has??

We stil have Bailey (our no.1 assitant by far), Walsh (done a good job), Morris and Hutton.

The only terrible decision i believe the club has made has been Tony Mcguiness. Losing Stewart also is a big loss.

I dont think we will lose or gain anything from losing Pittman and gaining Mickan. Rohde should do ok as FM and Williams is an excellent choice as helping out develop the younger players.

I don't want to get into any bloody argument on who's got what & who's got the better list, coaches etc & i think you will find that most of us are just a bit peeved off with Bone McDermott's continal sarcastic jibes against anything & anyone to do with the AFC & when he brings up your mobs coaching panel as the be all & end all as against our somewhat suspect coaches well then forgive us for taking him to task.

Not to many of us have much of a bad word said against Mark Mickan only that he should go along with every one else of last years ass coaches & that N Craig should start off with a complete new list of assistants.

As for Tony McGuiness well he might have failed as a senior coach at the Bays but so did Mark Williams & a host of others in the last 15 years or so, He might surprise quite a few down at Pap land as a forward coach & don't forget he was a very successful AFL/SANFL player & would have a great deal of knowledge to pass on. (under the very watchful eye of Chocko of course)

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

So its ok for the Crows supporters to blow over Gibson, Van Berlo, Meeson, Knights etc and claim they have the best future in the AFL...but its not ok for us to say that we have good backups in Chaplin, Pettigrew, Surjan, Salopek, Ebert waiting in the wings?? Wouldnt want to hear you say a good word about your new draft picks again. According to what you say, they havent played a game yet so they could be craphouse.



Bishop was our number 1 defender this year...yes lets drop our best defender. Wanganeen almost won a Brownlow last year...yup, lets play him in the SANFL all year...that makes sense. Wakelin i agree with. We had problems with long term injuries to all of our backup defenders this year. Chaplin was on the verge of replacing Wakelin then missed 15 weeks of football with knee surgery. Pettigrew played the first two AFL games then missed 12 weeks with a back injury. Gilham missed 16 weeks with hamstring injury. RFK missed 21 weeks with hamstring tendonitis. Surjan missed 12 weeks after foot surgery. Salopek missed 10 weeks after Glandular Fever. Peel was playing crap football in the reserves. We played kids early...then they got injured pretty much all in a 3 week period. Puts us in a tricky position. Later on in the year we were consistantly winning games of football so why would we make wholesale changes to our lineup when we won 13 of our last 14 games (including the finals), are top of the ladder and aiming for a premiership. Your trying to tell me that we should have dropped our older guys for the younger ones come Round 19-21 just to blood youngsters? Odd way to coach.



Whyw ould you drop someone like Wanganeen? He won us the premiership. Speaks for itself. Why drop Bishop whos having his best year and is our no.1 stopping defender? Why drop Monty when he still wins his position every week? Why drop James or Wilson when they are our clutch players.

Had Chaplin, Surjan, Salopek, Pettigrew, Gilham and RFK not missed 3 months of football each at the same time then im sure they would have played quite a few games this year. Chpalin had a small taste, was on the brink before injury. Surjan played 5 of the first 6 or 7 games then got injured. Pettigrew played the first 2 then got injured. Gilham was our most impressive young player in the pre season then got injured. RFK had a spot open in the side but got injured. What can you do?

Why shouldn't we talk up our players after all this is the AFC board. However, we rarely feel the need to post exaggarations as to the quality of our list on other boards as some of you do.

Sorry Mac, I didn't read the rest of your post as I just assumed it was your normal biased dribble. The clocks a ticking my boy.

 

[Macca19]

So we arent allowed to defend our young players when people like yourself claim they are hopeless?

 

[Powerstufff]

Mickan was no good at the AFC why would he be any better at Port?.....

Something I've wondered too. But my theory is that the ruck coaches' task is different at Port, from what it was with you.
Port has three top ruckmen in Brogan, Lade and Primus. Several other players have had long periods of training in the role as further back-ups. Mickan simply has to keep this team working well, not strive to build the group in the first place. From that point it is a matter of judgement of last year's Premiers.

.....Seem you forgot to mention the appointment of 'failed' AFL coach Peter Rhode.....

Well he isn't coaching. Unlike Neil Craig who was assistant coach at a club that 'failed' to make the finals last year.

.....Gee need I continue?????

Apparently so.

 

[Mitch Power]

Mickan was no good at the AFC why would he be any better at Port

maccas 1, because he has quality ruckmen to work with - what did he have at the Crows? Lets face it, he had an "old dog" in Clarke who can't mark and hates the physical staff and a dumb ruckman in biglands who marks occassionally but can't ruck. You could have had Polly Farmer at the Crows and he too wouldn't be able to get anything out of them.

I think you are being a bit harsh on Mickan.

 

[PAfolwr]

Why shouldn't we talk up our players after all this is the AFC board. However, we rarely feel the need to post exaggarations as to the quality of our list on other boards as some of you do.
...

I have read a number of your debates re: Port's list, and even had one or two myself with you, but I'm confused when you say exaggerations.
What exaggerations are these?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

So we arent allowed to defend our young players when people like yourself claim they are hopeless?

I didn't say they were hopeless at all. Who knows they could "all" turn out to be as good as you guys say they are - although the odds are against it. What i'm saying is that IMO, provided they turn into good players, it would take the likes of peel, symes, chaplin, prettigrew, ebert, surjan etc etc. at least 3-5 years until their game was at the same level of quality as the numerous players they will be replacing. In the next 2 years you are likely to retire Primus ( 30), Francou (31), Wangas ( 32), Bishop (30), Kingsley ( 30 ), Monty ( 32), James ( 30), Wakelin ( 31 ); and Wilson (29), Lade (29) and Pickett (28) will be on the decline. ***Note all ages as at 31/12/05***. Surely, you would agree that would mean a slight ( maybe even major) drop down the ladder. As I posted earlier, I expect you to finish between 4-8 in 2006 and 2007. In 2008 + when Tredrea is in decline a more severe drop down the ladder isn't out of the equation.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I have read a number of your debates re: Port's list, and even had one or two myself with you, but I'm confused when you say exaggerations.
What exaggerations are these?

refer above...

 

[Mitch Power]

C S McDERMOTT

276 games and 184 goals for Glenelg, 1984 - 1990
117 games and 31 goals for Adelaide, 1991 - 1996
Captain of Glenelg 2 years and Adelaide, 4 years
Member of premiership sides for Glenelg, 1985, 1986
Club Champion Glenelg, 3 times and Adelaide, 1992
Played 15 games for South Australia, captain 7 years
Fos Williams Medallist 1987
Simpson Medallist 1987
All Australian 1986, 1987, 1992
Coached North Adelaide, 1997 – 2000


Chip Shoulder McDermott

not a bad resume........by the level of venom directed at McDermott from the Crow supporters, one would think he was a Port Adelaide legend ratherthan a decorated Crow.

 

[macca23]

Since when was coaching at AFL level a must to become an assistant coach/football manager? The people the Crows appointed havent coached at AFL level or won an SANFL premiership either. Nor would have 95% of the assitants in the AFL.

Forget the Crows, my beef with McDermott was for incorrectly pumping up Port's tyres IMO by comparison. After all, it was McDermott that included Rhode in the football group, not me.

Put your credibility on the line Macca.

Do you agree with McDermott's comments that Port have definitely improved their football department significantly with the appointment of McGuinness, Stephen Williams, Mark Mickan and Peter Rhode, and that to get these people is a huge coup?

It's that simple. Your answer?

 

[PAfolwr]

refer above...

That doesn't answer it.

Who knows they could "all" turn out to be as good as you guys say they are - although the odds are against it

Nobody from the Port board has ever said that our young players will come straight in and replace our older players as such.
That is the point that you are stuck on.
Perhaps because the AFC has failed dismally in having a steady as you go "succession" plan, then perhaps you have trouble seeing what we see.

Older players retire. (Some are champions or ex Champions by this stage)
First tier players step up. Some to champion status hopefully.
Second tier players replace first tier players.
New players replace second tier players.
Rookies replace "new players".

One of the big standouts between the PAFC and the AFC and most other clubs is wrt trade week. We have generally traded over the years with the above in mind, not looking for short term fixes.
You have tried to trade for ready made players in the top tier only. Sounds good short term, but can stuff you up long term because of the cost. If the players do not come up to expectations, then it stuffs you up both long and short term.

Now exaggeration?
Not from us.
The difference between people talking about Adelaide's ageing list and Port's ageing list is not so much the rookies and "new players", but the gap in between that you had and we do not.

EDIT: How and where do you see Thurstans and White?

 

[PAfolwr]

Forget the Crows, my beef with McDermott was for incorrectly pumping up Port's tyres IMO by comparison. After all, it was McDermott that included Rhode in the football group, not me.

Put your credibility on the line Macca.

Do you agree with McDermott's comments that Port have definitely improved their football department significantly with the appointment of McGuinness, Stephen Williams, Mark Mickan and Peter Rhode, and that to get these people is a huge coup?

It's that simple. Your answer?

The answer is to forget about people like McDermott and just wait and see what unfolds.
Personally I am happy with Port's mix.
It could be a very volatile one where you could end up with too many chiefs and not enough Indians if the coach in charge wasn't a strong character, but Choco is.
That sort of mix with a new coach in charge, such as in your case, could backfire.

 

[Jumbo]

In the next 2 years you are likely to retire Primus ( 30), Francou (31), Wangas ( 32), Bishop (30), Kingsley ( 30 ), Monty ( 32), James ( 30), Wakelin ( 31 ); and Wilson (29), Lade (29) and Pickett (28) will be on the decline. ***Note all ages as at 31/12/05***. Surely, you would agree that would mean a slight ( maybe even major) drop down the ladder. As I posted earlier, I expect you to finish between 4-8 in 2006 and 2007. In 2008 + when Tredrea is in decline a more severe drop down the ladder isn't out of the equation.

Your own backyard as of start of season:
Bassett 28
Clarke 31
Edwards 28
Goodwin 28
Hart 30
Mcleod 28
Riccuito 29

Not much coming through at this stage, your cupboard will be very empty soon!!!!

 

[Macca19]

I didn't say they were hopeless at all. Who knows they could "all" turn out to be as good as you guys say they are - although the odds are against it. What i'm saying is that IMO, provided they turn into good players, it would take the likes of peel, symes, chaplin, prettigrew, ebert, surjan etc etc. at least 3-5 years until their game was at the same level of quality as the numerous players they will be replacing.

Of course it will take them time to get to their level. I disagree with many people on here saying that when these guys retire we are gonna spend a lot of time in the bottom 4...which i believe is quite a load of bullcrap...which is where us defending our younger players comes into it.

In the next 2 years you are likely to retire Primus ( 30), Francou (31), Wangas ( 32), Bishop (30), Kingsley ( 30 ), Monty ( 32), James ( 30), Wakelin ( 31 ); and Wilson (29), Lade (29) and Pickett (28) will be on the decline. ***Note all ages as at 31/12/05***.

Bishop could play for another 3 years. Hes fit and has gotten better with age so far. The others i generally agree should be gone.

Surely, you would agree that would mean a slight ( maybe even major) drop down the ladder. As I posted earlier, I expect you to finish between 4-8 in 2006 and 2007. In 2008 + when Tredrea is in decline a more severe drop down the ladder isn't out of the equation.

Your 2008 prediction is assuming that no players come on to take the place again. Players leave, other players stand up, rookies get better, some rookies end up duds. I cant see us having a major drop down the ladder (bottom 4) for an extended period. Same could be said for the Crows too. In 08 its likely that Roo, Mcleod, Goodwin, Clarke, Hart, Bassett, M Stevens, Edwards, Perrie, Welsh, Burton, Torney will either be gone or close to gone so a big drop down in 08+ could be on the cards. But this is just assuming that none of the young players come on, none of your recruits this year develop very well and that the 4-5 draftees each year dont do anythign as well.

I think we will go down to around 6-10 in 06 and 07 but by 08 there will be around 15 new faces aroudn the club. Im confident that we wont crash and burn.

PAFowlr explains it well. If the second tier move to first tier, third tier moves to second tier and the draftees move to backups then it should go ok.

 

[Macca19]

Forget the Crows, my beef with McDermott was for incorrectly pumping up Port's tyres IMO by comparison. After all, it was McDermott that included Rhode in the football group, not me.

Put your credibility on the line Macca.

Do you agree with McDermott's comments that Port have definitely improved their football department significantly with the appointment of McGuinness, Stephen Williams, Mark Mickan and Peter Rhode, and that to get these people is a huge coup?

It's that simple. Your answer?

I havent seen the article so i dont know what Mcdermott wrote but improved significantly? No. Improved slightly? Possibly. Broke even? Most likely. Gone terribly backwards like everyone here thinks and wants? I dont think so.

Stephen Williams helping develop our junior players is an excellent addition. You disagree? Peter Rohde as Football Manager I think is a good choice. You disagree?

As i said before...a few years back everyone on here said the Crows had the best and most effective ruck combo in the league. Who was their coach? Now hes a poor choice because hes at the Power. Why? I didnt know Pittman was rated so extremely highly.

Mcguiness im not keen on. He'll obviously offer something. I dont think Williams would surround himself with people that would do a crap job.

Also as i said before..weve still got the main guys in Bailey, Morris, Walsh, Hutton and Moylan.

Its not just this either Macca. There have been a lot of posts on here having a go at our off field additions this off season yet heaps of praise for the Crows ones...even tho the Crows ones are no more credentialed than ours.

So no, not significantly improved. Most likely weve broken even.