Toast Not bottoming out

[geelong_crazy26]

As Geelong approaches another finals series and most likely finishes inside the top 4 I think we should all just pause for a moment and acknowledge what an amazing job the club has done to prevent us from bottoming out .Geelong will have played in 11 out of 13 finals series ,the only club to do better is Sydney who have had COLA and player academy's to keep them in the finals .

In 2009 and 2010 the top 4 sides both years were Geelong,St Kilda,Collingwood and the Bulldogs with all but Geelong having since spent 3 years or more out of the finals .

With the amount of talent we have lost over the past 5 years which includes 11 All Australian players we have no right to of only missed the finals once and finished no lower than 10th . We should of spent years down the bottom of the ladder losing most weeks by 10 goals plus .It will be interesting to see how Hawthorn go over the next few years .Remember over the same time frame that Geelong has lost 11 AA players Hawthorn have only lost 3 .

Some people might say that we shouldn't toast anything but a premiership , truth is that its important for us to appreciate the great work of talented people off the field such as Cook,Scott,Wells and Hocking and others because we want them all to stay Geelong people .

Now that we have avoided spending 5 years outside the 8 like we should of , we move on to competing and winning premierships .This starts in a few weeks time and will last for the next 5 years .

Go Cats , we will win at least 2 premierships over the next 5 years .

 

[dazbroncos]

Don't disagree...


but I see myself spending time in this one in my future..

Please dont turn into a same old arguements....

Go Catters

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Don't disagree...


but I see myself spending time in this one in my future..

Please dont turn into a same old arguements....

Go Catters

Not my intention to turn this into a Toast thread for Scott . A number of people have played a role in us not bottoming out and I think we should acknowledge them all .

Cook,Wells and Hocking have done an excellent job . A number of others would have too.

It is an amazing effort by the club.

 

[Catastic82]

Don't disagree...


but I see myself spending time in this one in my future..

Please dont turn into a same old arguements....

Go Catters

My first thoughts as well...poor mods

 

[geelong_crazy26]

My first thoughts as well...poor mods

I don't think many will disagree on this 1 .

To make 11 finals series in 13 years is an amazing achievement . It also worth noting that our major rival Hawthorn during this time received not 1 but 2 priority draft picks .Our other major rival Sydney has had COLA and academies . We have a strong claim to being the best managed club on the field in the AFL.

 

[Hoooops]

I don't think many will disagree on this 1 .

To make 11 finals series in 13 years is an amazing achievement . It also worth noting that our major rival Hawthorn during this time received not 1 but 2 priority draft picks .Our other major rival Sydney has had COLA and academies . We have a strong claim to being the best managed club on the field in the AFL.

But the argument will hopefully not be about whether You-Know-Who has had a positive impact since coming to the club, "would we have been more successful under another coach" etc...

Oh shit, I just called him Voldemort. The Death Eaters will be after my blood now!

 

[winty]

I can still remember the dark old days at the end of 1999 when our coach and captain walked out, and the club were in dire straits financially.

We've made the finals in 12 of the 17 seasons since then, including this year. Only the COLA and academy assisted Swans boast a better record.

 

[PremierCatAttack]

I can still remember the dark old days at the end of 1999 when our coach and captain walked out, and the club were in dire straits financially.

We've made the finals in 12 of the 17 seasons since then, including this year. Only the COLA and academy assisted Swans boast a better record.

Frank was behind so much of this. Character first. Put the right people in the job, and the results will look after themselves.

 

[winty]

Frank was behind so much of this. Character first. Put the right people in the job, and the results will look after themselves.

Would be fitting if they named a stand after him or erected a statue of him in front of the new stand. If it wasn't for the likes of him, the club would've gone the same way as Fitzroy.

 

[Lana]

At some point it's going to hit us. A fall is inevitable but we've done what ever we can to delay it. Our post Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor and Dangerfield era is going to be painful.

Our current group has had a few stimulus packages in it. Hawkins F/S in 06, he would have been one of the first pick. The two compensation picks for Ablett. Trading two first round picks for top end talent from the 2007 draft. It's all going to wear-off by 2020 or 2021 at the latest. Probably a lot sooner.

We're going to have a massive hole where the 2012 to 2017 drafts are supposed to be. I don't think Scott will be around by then he'll jump ship to greener pastures as a multiple premiership coach. I think Wells will be smart enough to retire before the worst hits with his reputation intact.

The longer you drag it out the more it builds up it's gonna hurt a lot. Short term success will make it worth it.

 

[BotsMaster]

At some point it's going to hit us. A fall is inevitable but we've done what ever we can to delay it.

We fell last year and have picked ourselves up this year

 

[Goggin Our Best]

I can still remember the dark old days at the end of 1999 when our coach and captain walked out, and the club were in dire straits financially.

We've made the finals in 12 of the 17 seasons since then, including this year. Only the COLA and academy assisted Swans boast a better record.

Yes - but the Competition doesnt wait for anybody - John Elliot once said - " We never rebuild " - well thats bitten them on the aarse big time . Geelong got smashed in the 95 GF - but who cares now - i wouldnt swap our last 20 years for their last 20 years - even it meant reversing the 95 result - no feucken way

Look at Essendon forget the drugs fiasco - they have been totally irrelevant for 13-14 years - with alot of lowly finishes - again they can have their 93 flag - along time ago and who cares less - they have had a shocking decade and a half

 

[Lana]

We fell last year and have picked ourselves up this year

If you ask me that was one year too many

 

[Turbocat]

I wonder if it us who has done so well or if a lot of the other clubs have just dropped the ball? Certainly the addition of the new clubs has helped the better run clubs..could Hawks be going for 4 in a row without the expansion teams? Probably... we could have done that bar one bad game in 08.
Its been decades since we really were at the bottom.. Id say that Cooky would start to sweat bricks if we did drop like that with the amount of seats he will have to fill soon

 

[Mad_Hatter]

I wonder if it us who has done so well or if a lot of the other clubs have just dropped the ball? Certainly the addition of the new clubs has helped the better run clubs..could Hawks be going for 4 in a row without the expansion teams? Probably... we could have done that bar one bad game in 08.
Its been decades since we really were at the bottom.. Id say that Cooky would start to sweat bricks if we did drop like that with the amount of seats he will have to fill soon

I think it took some serious hard work from Cook and Costa to right the ship so to speak and they need the kudos for it.
It's bloody hard to break a club out of mediocrity, particularly when it's heading towards disaster.

From their amazing work we have built a successfully run club, a position not easy to fall from while those who were around during the building of said culture are still around.

I can't see us dropping consistently with anyone still at the club now, sure we might drop out of finals for a year or 2 at times but as an entire club I can't see us going back to that dark time.
Success breeds success and that doesn't always mean on field success.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Our challenge will be when we lose all of Enright,Lonergan,Bartel and Mackie, that's when we could really nosedive down the ladder.

 

[Hamingja]

Our challenge will be when we lose all of Enright,Lonergan,Bartel and Mackie, that's when we could really nosedive down the ladder.

Enright is irreplaceable and with losing 3 of the back 6 across 2 years there might be some pain but on form I don't think Bartel and Mackie are huge losses and Henderson will be a more than capable full back.

At some point it's going to hit us. A fall is inevitable but we've done what ever we can to delay it. Our post Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor and Dangerfield era is going to be painful.

That's when the real drop off will come.

 

[Bobby_]

we were never really in much trouble of tumbling down the ladder as we gained access to some of the most talented key position players in the country. Nathan Ablett, Tom Hawkins and Harry Taylor. When it became clear Egan was in serious trouble (long-term), the club needed a ready made mature player and Taylor was the obvious choice. You then add in Motlop who has successful bloodlines and Joel Selwood taken inside the top 10 of the draft, really, not many clubs had the fortunate mix we did at exactly the right time when the club was at it's peak. You then take a close look at the longevity of such names as Corey, Kelly, Chapman, Scarlett, Enright, Bartel, Johnson, Lonergan and you can see why we were able to stay more than competitive. What is worrying is that if it was not for the signing of Patrick Dangerfield, Zac Clark and Lachie Henderson last year, I think Geelong would be in a very similar situation to what they were in last year . . . struggling too make the finals. Now is that the club deserving of a pat on the back or those three players mentioned for making us that much better immediately?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

we were never really in much trouble of tumbling down the ladder as we gained access to some of the most talented key position players in the country. Nathan Ablett, Tom Hawkins and Harry Taylor. When it became clear Egan was in serious trouble (long-term), the club needed a ready made mature player and Taylor was the obvious choice. You then add in Motlop who has successful bloodlines and Joel Selwood taken inside the top 10 of the draft, really, not many clubs had the fortunate mix we did at exactly the right time when the club was at it's peak. You then take a close look at the longevity of such names as Corey, Kelly, Chapman, Scarlett, Enright, Bartel, Johnson, Lonergan and you can see why we were able to stay more than competitive. What is worrying is that if it was not for the signing of Patrick Dangerfield, Zac Clark and Lachie Henderson last year, I think Geelong would be in a very similar situation to what they were in last year . . . struggling too make the finals. Now is that the club deserving of a pat on the back or those three players mentioned for making us that much better immediately?

For the first paragraph Wells and his scouting team deserve praise for getting lots of hits. That so much is clear.
That's probably the only way other than an extra 9.8% in the cap of beating the system, to essentially have more hits than misses or certainly more hits than you'd be expected to get. Turbo I think is right, the introduction of two new expansion teams has halted the rate of improvement in clubs down in that period. They collectively sucked up a lot of talent, talent that if they didn't exist would be elsewhere. Imagine Melbourne with Shiel, the Dogs with Cameron, St.Kilda with Greene. etc etc. It has also played its part. So we can't simply heap 100% praise on the club. The landscape also changed with us in a position to benefit, namely in the form of free agency, that's not our own expert club management at work, that's the AFL making paradigm altering changes to the game which has netted us 3 players and was an indirect factor in Dangerfield.

As for the 2nd paragraph I agree we were trending downwards based off last season. That much most would agree on as our midfield wasn't handling the load and the defence was overworked, yep we traded/FA our way out of that immediate trend line and that's no different to Sydney with Tippett and Franklin, the poster club for 'not bottoming out'. They used the mechanisms in place to fix gaping holes like we have now done.
I think some praise needs to go to the powers that be for our last trade period, yes one exceptional player landed in our lap but we still had to get deals done, had to plan ahead with contracts and TPP to fit these players in. Had to then make do with limited draft resources, which have netted two players that look to be best 22 for our upcoming finals side, whilst another two have already shown promising signs at VFL level.

Is it worrying though? had they not come most would have been cognisant that this is the way the system operates and we like other clubs would need a spell out of finals to really regenerate the list, those 4 players were game changers, plan changers. That alternate path may have expedited and made the list management decision process more savage with guys like Enright, Jimmy, Mackie not getting a new contract and a deep cut to the bone of injury prone players like vardy, Smedts, Linc, Delaney and Cowan had our path not looked like spiking upwards. As it turns out 2 of those 5 as well as Menzel have gone some way to showing why they were kept so long, a chance they may not have received had our side looked to be continuing to slide down the table.

I suspect our hierarchy would have had a decent.strong inkling the winds of change were in the air and altered their thinking and list management strategy to accommodate this new found fortune with regards to impending arrivals.
Of course it is a moving feast and things can and do change quickly but on the surface our last off season seemingly has prevented us from bottoming out. For now and for the short term future. How far that takes us and how long, well I guess we can all enjoy that ride.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

At some point it's going to hit us. A fall is inevitable but we've done what ever we can to delay it. Our post Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor and Dangerfield era is going to be painful.

Our current group has had a few stimulus packages in it. Hawkins F/S in 06, he would have been one of the first pick. The two compensation picks for Ablett. Trading two first round picks for top end talent from the 2007 draft. It's all going to wear-off by 2020 or 2021 at the latest. Probably a lot sooner.

We're going to have a massive whole where the 2012 to 2017 drafts are supposed to be. I don't think Scott will be around by then he'll jump ship to greener pastures as a multiple premiership coach. I think Wells will be smart enough to retire before the worst hits with his reputation intact.

The longer you drag it out the more it builds up it's gonna hurt a lot. Short term success will make it worth it.

A fall will happen , the question is how low will we fall and for how long ?

I also think that when people say we will fall in 5 years time they are not factoring in who we will pick up ?

Geelong is a destination club that players want to play for .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

we were never really in much trouble of tumbling down the ladder as we gained access to some of the most talented key position players in the country. Nathan Ablett, Tom Hawkins and Harry Taylor. When it became clear Egan was in serious trouble (long-term), the club needed a ready made mature player and Taylor was the obvious choice. You then add in Motlop who has successful bloodlines and Joel Selwood taken inside the top 10 of the draft, really, not many clubs had the fortunate mix we did at exactly the right time when the club was at it's peak. You then take a close look at the longevity of such names as Corey, Kelly, Chapman, Scarlett, Enright, Bartel, Johnson, Lonergan and you can see why we were able to stay more than competitive. What is worrying is that if it was not for the signing of Patrick Dangerfield, Zac Clark and Lachie Henderson last year, I think Geelong would be in a very similar situation to what they were in last year . . . struggling too make the finals. Now is that the club deserving of a pat on the back or those three players mentioned for making us that much better immediately?

What's interesting is that all our mature age recruits that have not been hit hard with injuries have played their best footy with Geelong . Its a credit to the club.

 

[James1970]

What is worrying is that if it was not for the signing of Patrick Dangerfield, Zac Clark and Lachie Henderson last year, I think Geelong would be in a very similar situation to what they were in last year . . . struggling too make the finals. Now is that the club deserving of a pat on the back or those three players mentioned for making us that much better immediately?

Why worry about something that didn't happen?

Pats all around to the players who signed on, the club for landing the deals and to all of us who have enjoyed this great ride - as Neil would sing, long may you run.

 

[catters05]

What is worrying is that if it was not for the signing of Patrick Dangerfield, Zac Clark and Lachie Henderson last year, I think Geelong would be in a very similar situation to what they were in last year . . .

That's the great thing about the club, they knew there were holes that needed to be filled, and it has been.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

That's the great thing about the club, they knew there were holes that needed to be filled, and it has been.

People tend to forget one thing as well which was important in getting all four across to Geelong, we had great people such as Scott cook Selwood wells sit down with them and convince them in our vision and club over many many other suitors. We had the capable and competent people who were able to sway them to Geelong over places like hawthorn Richmond Sydney Carlton Collingwood etc the list goes on. I am sure these players could have even gotten more money elsewhere and living in Melbourne wouldn't have been such a bad result for an extra 1-250k over Geelong. We had the right people in contact with them who could sell us and get the job done over others, that also deserves a praise and mention.

 

[Lana]

A fall will happen , the question is how low will we fall and for how long ?

I also think that when people say we will fall in 5 years time they are not factoring in who we will pick up ?

Geelong is a destination club that players want to play for .

I don't think things like being a destination club are permanent. It's not so much ladder position but quality on the list, Talent attracts other talent, Hawthorn will find this out in a couple of years post Mitchell and Hodge and co. You need to be able to sell the club otherwise you end up paying overs. Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor were our selling points. We have quite a few good kids on our list but none of them look to be on that level. None who you could point to as someone to hold the club up.

And we won't have a lot of trade currency for a long time, we can't trade a first round pick until 2019. The draft is a loaded game of chance, it hasn't been in our favour for a while and won't be for the foreseeable future.

We're going to require a full rebuild with no short cuts.