Analysis Our Backline

[Tomnat Tigers]

It’s shit. Let me explain:

Looking at the team that played vs Sydney on the weekend the 22 that played can be grouped accordingly (some will disagree with rankings).

A grade talent (1-8 top players on the list):
· Rance.
· Riewoldt.
· Martin.
· Deledio.

B grade talent (5-18 top players on the list):
· Edwards.
· Vlastuin (potentially A).
· Miles.
· B.Ellis (playing more like C/D at present).
· Grimes.
· Vickery

C grade talent (16-22 top players on the list):
· Hampson.
· Lloyd
· Griffiths (showed he could be anything).
· Grigg.

D grade talent (depth players):
· Morris (played well though)
· Batchelor.
· Hunt.
· Chaplin (was once a B/C player but no longer up to it)

Developing players who could be anything (preferably top 15):
· Rioli.
· Short.
· C.Ellis.
· Menadue

Missing:
· Cotchin (A talent)
· Yarran (B talent)
· Houli (B talent, playing like a C this season)
· Conca (B talent)
· Lennon (could be anything).
· McIntosh (C talent but could easily be a B talent if developed correctly).
· Lambert (C talent).

As you can see the D grade players all feature prominently or have featured prominently in our backline over the past three seasons and for different reasons have never taken their game to a higher level or have gone backwards. Morris, Batchelor, Hunt and Chaplin are all in need of replacing for better players, which can be done both internally and from the outside. Internally Houli and Yarran can come in and provide the run and carry we need so there is no need to target run and carry players, especially given we have couple of younger players developing behind them in the form of Drummond and Castagna. The versatile defender capable of playing on talls or smalls is covered in the form of Grimes, whilst we all know what Rance is capable of, we just need to give more support. This leaves us in need of replacing Chaplin as the second key defender as well replacing Batchelor as the fourth defender which is a role that requires a balance of being able to rebound and keeping his opponent quiet. Lennon might be capable of flourishing in this role but I personally believe that he will one day be a gun half forward and just needs the time to develop into one (will help when he gets a consistent run at it).

Chaplin we should be looking to replace with one of Hurley, Steven May, Caleb Marchbank or Tom McDonald. All four of those guys are capable of beating their man but also have the ability to hit up team mates when under pressure, a lot like Rance albeit no where near his level. They will come at a cost but we cannot afford to go into the next season without giving Rance more support, especially as we are beginning to see more 1 on 1 contest that expose those who are weak in 1 v 1 situations

As far as upgrading Batchelor the perfect candidates to do so would be Nick Haynes or Kade Kolojashni. Again both would come at the cost of a first rounder and possibly steak knives but their ability to intercept and counter would give us the makings of not only great defence but potentially a great offense given teams that rebound effectively generally kick higher scores. Another option for this role is Neville Jetta who is free agent at the end of the season. The problem with Jetta though is he won’t provide the intercept marking but he does do a good lockdown job and provides reasonable drive out of the backline.

This would give us a back 6 of:
B: Grimes – Rance - Yarran
HB: Houli – Hurley – Haynes

That’s an elite backline that not only would be hard to score against but would also allow us to play our midfielders in the midfield. Which already we have seen the impact of playing Vlastuin in the guts, which once you add Cotchin, Cellis and Conca all of a sudden we could have strong midfield to go with a strong defence, which is what premiership winning teams are made of.

 

[Equus]

Thought you were talking about Jarryd Haynes for a moment..

 

[Squibbs]

Haynes is a mother ****ing BEAST

 

[Dr Tigris]

Think you are marking hard. But you're in the ballpark I reckon.

I'd have Batch as a B grader - small/mid sized defender. His problem is being made to play on talls and getting smashed.

But overall our defense really needs another good KPD. If we get Hurley that would be huge. Houli and Yarran = major run and carry.

But the biggest thing to me is midfield defensive pressure. Which varies a lot with us. When we play well we suffocate the opposition. When we aren't they have holes to run through. Having players that can stop opposition run ons and cause physical harm ot opposition midfielders is vital. And we lack that. Vlas is worth a lot there - please move him into the middle. But yes, the overall thrust is about right.

As a left of center suggestion. When I've seen TV playing back he has just been fantastic. Moving him back to be that other KPD and moving Griff to FF, then bringing in the Bean would be an experiment I would like to see. TV is a good FF, but if Griff can take that role then TV could be a fantastic addition in the backline. Can't ever see it happening, but TV's footy smarts, athleticism, size and skill would make him a very effective back. Good stopper and great at moving the ball out. Oh well, my genius will live on in never land

 

[Gentlemen]

To be fair this backline was the 3rd best last year (only 4 points off Fremantle of all teams)

What we need to look at is /why/ this has happened. Is it gameplan? Have players gone backwards? Is it an issue unrelated to the backline all together

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

To be fair this backline was the 3rd best last year (only 4 points off Fremantle of all teams)

What we need to look at is /why/ this has happened. Is it gameplan? Have players gone backwards? Is it an issue unrelated to the backline all together

The backline has always worked well as unit that in turn as hidden the flaws of the likes of Chaplin who are weak in 1 v1 situations. Problem now is the game has changed slightly and we're seeing more 1 v 1 situations that are now exposing Chaplin and others.

It doesn't help that the midfield hasn't been working hard the other way and allowed there midfield opponents to stream into our defence with little pressure but even with this being the case it has shown those who can handle the pressure and those who can't. Grimes and Rance have stood up, Chaplin and Batchelor haven't and they don't help out their fellow defenders anywhere near as often as what Rance and Grimes do. The simple solution is to replace them with better players, which Hurley and Haynes are very good in pressure situations and would give us an elite defence.

 

[Achilles Heel]

To be fair this backline was the 3rd best last year (only 4 points off Fremantle of all teams)

What we need to look at is /why/ this has happened. Is it gameplan? Have players gone backwards? Is it an issue unrelated to the backline all together

Well the backline that was 3rd best in the comp last year was totally dismantled in an attempt to turn backs into forwards and forwards into backs, 6foot 6 inch players into crumbing forwards etc etc etc it is gradually being returned to last years dominant backline and the results are showing, something about square pegs into round holes comes to mind.

If youre going to tinker with something , do it gradually, mind you we did have retirements that forced us to totally dismantle the backline.

As to the why , if you read my posts you will understand what im trying to say.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

Watching the replay for the Sydney game and Chaplin has been responsible for the their first 3 goals.

1st goal, Buddy got a free kick, which to be fair was a horrible call.
2nd goal, Sinclair took a mark on him 20 out that wasn't called a mark but two handballs later Heeney kicks a goal.
3rd goal, Buddy kicks it from 55 and Chaplin touches it behind the line with his elbows bent. If he goes straight up its rushed behind.

 

[tigerz18]

Rance is 6 players in 1. the rest are just there coz we need to have 18 players on the field

 

[tigs2010]

Watching the replay for the Sydney game and Chaplin has been responsible for the their first 3 goals.

1st goal, Buddy got a free kick, which to be fair was a horrible call.
2nd goal, Sinclair took a mark on him 20 out that wasn't called a mark but two handballs later Heeney kicks a goal.
3rd goal, Buddy kicks it from 55 and Chaplin touches it behind the line with his elbows bent. If he goes straight up its rushed behind.

2nd one is harsh. Grigg is trotting 40m behind Heeney as he runs into an open goal.

 

[Goldust]

Chaplin for all his limitations is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Astbury.
Batch not as bad as you say and puzzling why he was out of the side first-up.
Morris was developing, or should I say, was going along nicely until the coach had a brainwave and thought .. 1. He was the forward we needed and 2. He could make him into a forward. It was pure dumb and dumber stuff.
As for the rest, Rance is clearly the best key defender going and our backline is a minimum 70 per cent better once Grimes is back in it.
Don't underestimate Grimes ... he's a damn good footballer and very important to our structure.

Secondly, so we are gonna bring in Hurley AND Haynes, when our recruiters and football dept are damn incompetent when it comes to trading and luring bigger names and ultimatey deliver us players of the calibre of Townsend and Hampson.

 

[Goldust]

And think you'll finer Corey Ellis will be relegated to half back duties.

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2016-05-18/ellis-to-fill-tigers-backline-void

 

[cairo tiger]

worst backline in league get hurley

 

[Roachy8]

As for the rest, Rance is clearly the best key defender going and our backline is a minimum 70 per cent better once Grimes is back in it.
Don't underestimate Grimes ... he's a damn good footballer and very important to our structure.

Quoted just to acknowledge the Grimes credit -far too easily missed around here and in the broader sphere.
Smart player, courageous and can play mid-tall and small.
Very important....

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

2nd one is harsh. Grigg is trotting 40m behind Heeney as he runs into an open goal.

Chaplin should have spoiled the ball before it got to Heeney. Thats the problem with the likes of Chaplin and Batchelor they only every worry about what they have to do, rarely do they leave their man and help out a team mate, which is what both Grimes and Rance do perfectly.

Chaplin for all his limitations is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Astbury.
Batch not as bad as you say and puzzling why he was out of the side first-up.
Morris was developing, or should I say, was going along nicely until the coach had a brainwave and thought .. 1. He was the forward we needed and 2. He could make him into a forward. It was pure dumb and dumber stuff.
As for the rest, Rance is clearly the best key defender going and our backline is a minimum 70 per cent better once Grimes is back in it.
Don't underestimate Grimes ... he's a damn good footballer and very important to our structure.

Secondly, so we are gonna bring in Hurley AND Haynes, when our recruiters and football dept are damn incompetent when it comes to trading and luring bigger names and ultimatey deliver us players of the calibre of Townsend and Hampson.

Batchelor plays on the fourth best forward of the opposition every week and does an average job of shutting them down most weeks and does nothing in terms of providing rebound. He is a nothing player but could provide reasonable depth but we sure as hell aren't going to win a premiership with him in the side.

Morris has been awful since Betts tore him a new one in the 2013 final. His decline had nothing to do with playing forward given he was terrible in 2014 playing as backman and moved forward for the start of 2015 season.

I know just how good Grimes and Rance are, they literally carry our backline thus are in need of some support.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Astbury may only be 26 but moves like someone that is 36. Chaplin is getting a game by default. Houli's form prior to injury was heading south. Vlastuin is being played where he belongs.
There's really only Rance and Grimes that you'd consider high quality defenders.
Interestingly Dea is doing ok for the Bombers, he's no star but would be better value than Batchelor.

 

[theflea]

Watching the replay for the Sydney game and Chaplin has been responsible for the their first 3 goals.

1st goal, Buddy got a free kick, which to be fair was a horrible call.
2nd goal, Sinclair took a mark on him 20 out that wasn't called a mark but two handballs later Heeney kicks a goal.
3rd goal, Buddy kicks it from 55 and Chaplin touches it behind the line with his elbows bent. If he goes straight up its rushed behind.

Geez clutching here. 1st goal was against Rance for changing, a mark not paid isn't his fault, its Heeney's opponent and the ball was way past the line. He just cant jump the high.

 

[theflea]

I would say our backline is getting thrown under the bus due to the unaccountable midfield.

 

[tropicaltiger]

It’s shit. Let me explain:

Looking at the team that played vs Sydney on the weekend the 22 that played can be grouped accordingly (some will disagree with rankings).

A grade talent (1-8 top players on the list):
· Rance.
· Riewoldt.
· Martin.
· Deledio.

B grade talent (5-18 top players on the list):
· Edwards.
· Vlastuin (potentially A).
· Miles.
· B.Ellis (playing more like C/D at present).
· Grimes.
· Vickery

C grade talent (16-22 top players on the list):
· Hampson.
· Lloyd
· Griffiths (showed he could be anything).
· Grigg.

D grade talent (depth players):
· Morris (played well though)
· Batchelor.
· Hunt.
· Chaplin (was once a B/C player but no longer up to it)

Developing players who could be anything (preferably top 15):
· Rioli.
· Short.
· C.Ellis.
· Menadue

Missing:
· Cotchin (A talent)
· Yarran (B talent)
· Houli (B talent, playing like a C this season)
· Conca (B talent)
· Lennon (could be anything).
· McIntosh (C talent but could easily be a B talent if developed correctly).
· Lambert (C talent).

As you can see the D grade players all feature prominently or have featured prominently in our backline over the past three seasons and for different reasons have never taken their game to a higher level or have gone backwards. Morris, Batchelor, Hunt and Chaplin are all in need of replacing for better players, which can be done both internally and from the outside. Internally Houli and Yarran can come in and provide the run and carry we need so there is no need to target run and carry players, especially given we have couple of younger players developing behind them in the form of Drummond and Castagna. The versatile defender capable of playing on talls or smalls is covered in the form of Grimes, whilst we all know what Rance is capable of, we just need to give more support. This leaves us in need of replacing Chaplin as the second key defender as well replacing Batchelor as the fourth defender which is a role that requires a balance of being able to rebound and keeping his opponent quiet. Lennon might be capable of flourishing in this role but I personally believe that he will one day be a gun half forward and just needs the time to develop into one (will help when he gets a consistent run at it).

Chaplin we should be looking to replace with one of Hurley, Steven May, Caleb Marchbank or Tom McDonald. All four of those guys are capable of beating their man but also have the ability to hit up team mates when under pressure, a lot like Rance albeit no where near his level. They will come at a cost but we cannot afford to go into the next season without giving Rance more support, especially as we are beginning to see more 1 on 1 contest that expose those who are weak in 1 v 1 situations

As far as upgrading Batchelor the perfect candidates to do so would be Nick Haynes or Kade Kolojashni. Again both would come at the cost of a first rounder and possibly steak knives but their ability to intercept and counter would give us the makings of not only great defence but potentially a great offense given teams that rebound effectively generally kick higher scores. Another option for this role is Neville Jetta who is free agent at the end of the season. The problem with Jetta though is he won’t provide the intercept marking but he does do a good lockdown job and provides reasonable drive out of the backline.

This would give us a back 6 of:
B: Grimes – Rance - Yarran
HB: Houli – Hurley – Haynes

That’s an elite backline that not only would be hard to score against but would also allow us to play our midfielders in the midfield. Which already we have seen the impact of playing Vlastuin in the guts, which once you add Cotchin, Cellis and Conca all of a sudden we could have strong midfield to go with a strong defence, which is what premiership winning teams are made of.

why did you forget astbury?? at least a solid c grader, i reckon his form has been ok but the selection committee has dropped him back maybe to work on a few things like quicker and more attacking ball movement and gaining a bit of mongrel and confidence etc... hes obviously a bit too dour and safety first at the moment.

 

[mopsy]

Think you are marking hard. But you're in the ballpark I reckon.

I'd have Batch as a B grader - small/mid sized defender. His problem is being made to play on talls and getting smashed.

But overall our defense really needs another good KPD. If we get Hurley that would be huge. Houli and Yarran = major run and carry.

But the biggest thing to me is midfield defensive pressure. Which varies a lot with us. When we play well we suffocate the opposition. When we aren't they have holes to run through. Having players that can stop opposition run ons and cause physical harm ot opposition midfielders is vital. And we lack that. Vlas is worth a lot there - please move him into the middle. But yes, the overall thrust is about right.

As a left of center suggestion. When I've seen TV playing back he has just been fantastic. Moving him back to be that other KPD and moving Griff to FF, then bringing in the Bean would be an experiment I would like to see. TV is a good FF, but if Griff can take that role then TV could be a fantastic addition in the backline. Can't ever see it happening, but TV's footy smarts, athleticism, size and skill would make him a very effective back. Good stopper and great at moving the ball out. Oh well, my genius will live on in never land

Here i was thinking he was being overly generous.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Who the faaark is Haynes? Surely not a draft pick. Because if it was they would be in the middle not defence

 

[sante]

If they are that bad why is our defence usually so good? This year it's been poor, but for most of this season, we've had different players through there. We've pretty much gone back to our old defence and it's been much better since

 

[CoggaRules]

Chaplin for all his limitations is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Astbury.
Batch not as bad as you say and puzzling why he was out of the side first-up.
Morris was developing, or should I say, was going along nicely until the coach had a brainwave and thought .. 1. He was the forward we needed and 2. He could make him into a forward. It was pure dumb and dumber stuff.
As for the rest, Rance is clearly the best key defender going and our backline is a minimum 70 per cent better once Grimes is back in it.
Don't underestimate Grimes ... he's a damn good footballer and very important to our structure.

Secondly, so we are gonna bring in Hurley AND Haynes, when our recruiters and football dept are damn incompetent when it comes to trading and luring bigger names and ultimatey deliver us players of the calibre of Townsend and Hampson.

and Yazzaaa dude...

 

[RunningBounce]

I fundamentally disagree with the analysis. You can’t line up the cogs in a watch and say “oh, those cogs are shit, so the whole watch is shit”. Judge the backline on how many goals get kicked against us, not whether Morris and Batchelor are an All-Australians or not.

A great Tiger once shouted “Come on Kevin, I want back-pocket plumber!”. Does anyone remember the Kellaways? Bloody hell…

 

[RunningBounce]

To be fair this backline was the 3rd best last year (only 4 points off Fremantle of all teams)

What we need to look at is /why/ this has happened. Is it gameplan? Have players gone backwards? Is it an issue unrelated to the backline all together

Agree on the strength of the backline, last year and the season before too. They have gone backwards this season, but the rest of the side has gone backwards faster.

I really don't think our #1, must-fix problem is the backline. When we look bad, the opposition stroll through the midfield. Our #1, must-fix problem is getting a 4-quarter, two-way running effort from 22 blokes.