Roast Our Forward Line

[NWTYRX]

Can I just remind everyone that we had 20 scoring shots, only 4 less than Collingwood. The only thing wrong on the night was that we couldn't hit the side of a barn door

 

[gbatman]

maybe we were getting our kicks from the wrong parts of the forward line... Because we set up poorly, don't work as a team and on the same wave length.

 

[Blue since 72]

That starts in defence where we have certain players stagnating play and crabbing sideways.

So True. When our forward line doesn't work its due to the speed of delivery into it and to a lesser degree the quality (although this doesn't seem to be an issue when we get it in fast). Regardless of whether we target Fev or have five different options, if we dick around with the ball in the back half by the time it makes it down the ground its pot luck as to whether we can hit a target. Pretty much the same for every team nowadays.
If you move the ball slowly you lose.
Winning clearances would be handy too. Bring on Robby (I hope).

 

[Alpha1]

Our skills aren't even good enough to do that.

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

Can I just remind everyone that we had 20 scoring shots, only 4 less than Collingwood. The only thing wrong on the night was that we couldn't hit the side of a barn door

Not to sure about a barn door, but i do remember us hitting the post a few times.

 

[Bluebear]

The coach was not to blame but his moves where minumal and supporters have evry right to ask serious questions when the team puts in a performance like that.

......and when they do I will continue to pose the question:

What game plan works when your kicking efficiency is at 50%?

Blaming the coach is a knee jerk reaction. At times it has substance, but how can you actually judge the game plan when the execution is complete rubbish?

Lets look at it this way:

If your game plan is rubbish and you execute:

• poorly = you get belted
• excellent = you still lose

If your game plan is good (maybe not great, but good) and you execute:

• poorly = you get belted
• well = beat crap sides, lose to same sides 50/50, beaten by best sides
• excellent = dispatch all sides and match it with the best

An excellent game plan that is carried out to the "t" (see Sydney in past years, Collingwood now, Crows) means that an average side talent wise can still beat very god teams if they stick to their plans.

I would say we have a good game plan. Not excellent, but good (and evolving - remember Ratts is young in terms of coaching), and our execution of that plan wavers greatly.

If our game plan was rubbish, we wouldn't have beaten the Dogs, the Lions twice, or taken up to the Saints and Hawks.

Our execution (read - mental ability of players) is what wavers dramtically, and with more experience will improve.

Much like the Saints over the last couple of years. Remember Ross Lyon and Mark Thomspson were both in the gun due to "crap game plans" the year or two before they lead their sides to dominate the competition.

In 1-2 years time our mental toughness will have matured along with our game plan and we will be in the top 4.

Till then, chill out and accept we are coming.......but we aint there yet.

 

[NWTYRX]

Not to sure about a barn door, but i do remember us hitting the post a few times.

That we did. Just think what could've happened if Fev's first shot was 2cm to the right, and didn't hit the post

 

[thylacine60]

Yarran's was the one I was riding home. Dammit, Janet!

 

[Kramer1]

1. Sure we are missing Waite and Warnock is not in allowing Kreuzer forward. But...

Also O'Hailpin, Wiggins, Walker

2. In the Collingwood game our coaches were far too slow to see when to make moves. We needed Kreuzer forward or Fisher deep early in the 3rd quarter when we had the run. I could see it real early, but the move didn't come until real late where Kreuzer was moved deep. And still we failed to use Fev's drawing ability (which opens up space).

The set-up wasn't great, but quality entry into the F50 was the problem, having marking players deep would not have achieved anything. Fisher was playing a lead up role, and even Fev was being drawn too far up the ground. Kreuz is an asset when running forward and taking strong marks, but also plays a role in defending space, and working back just as hard into the defensive 50

3. Our forwards were selfish. Every one was playing their own game doing their own thing and not doing anything to open it up. The forward line didn't function as a team and didn't work hard enough to clear it out and open it up as well as making the contests.

The delivery was simply abysmal...don't know about selfish, but they have everyright to be pissed off. Collingwood stuck to their defensive zone like shit on a blanket meaning it was near impossible to open up the forward line, and we simply didn't have any options at CHF that was going to unsettle their zone

4. What kind of f***ed up forward line set up has all the players evenly spaced in a line, straight up the middle of the ground between the goal line and center square. Anti-space, anti-corridor?

A forward line that is struggling to counter a defensive zone. Clearly the idea was that if Collingwood was going to clog up the middle we would try to leave space in the pockets and flanks to lead into...but again this is reliant on some precision ball coming in.

5. Carrazzo had the defencive forward role and did a really s**t job on Shaw. Carrazzo played selfish dumb footy. He stood about 10-15 meters wide of center about 30m from goal. Shaw stood those 10 meters off Carrazzo in the hole to block up space. Carrazzo needed to be about 25 meters towards the boundary to drag shaw out of the hole. Stupid selfish Carrazzo wouldn't sacrifice his game for the team or are our coaches too stupid?

Not sure that Carrazo spent all that much time directly opposed to Shaw, but yep whoever did the job on him did it poorly. Carrots had a poor game on many fronts...I think he's at his best when working to a simple brief...whatever role we were trying to get him to do looked overly complex and was never going to work on a night when simple handballing was stretching his mental capacity.

6. When Fevola led there opened up a big space at the back of him where there was no one within 25M of goal. The only player smart enough to lead back into that space was Betts and he's not the player to be doing this role. He needs to be crumbing while a tall uses the hole Fevola creates when he leads.

That tall being??? Kreuzer was needed further up the ground, Hampson was in a galaxy far far away...ummm...look all of these suggestions to mix things up in the forward line are good but they only work when you have the right players to make it happen. A fit Waite, Walker and Warnock gives us all of the flexibility we need to switch things around in the front half and unfortunately we don't have any of them up and running as yet.
Until that time we are resigned to doind what we can with the battlers on our list.

 

[BlueYoss]

Where do you come off labelling him a Snipa?

You got a problem with the label Snipa?

How about puny, immature, pussy, Snipa?

Would that suit you better?

 

[The Coach]

Pass the pillow...

me lift heap big water cooler...

Gay innuendo's blues4flag.

These pics might give you a clue Alpha

 

[blues4flag]

I've got nothing. It is that hard to explain it simply to the dim-witted amongst?!

 

[The Coach]

16 second pause for brain to kick in.......then


Can you lift a water cooler but?

Thy and Gilly are the only ones that know but after Gilly posted about the water cooler - I figured we were talking about Chief suffocating JP with the pillow in One Flew Over ..... (a mercy killing) He then uproots the water cooler (that he had supposedly been unable to lift for JP earlier) and uses it to break out of the sanitarium.

ps Greatest movie ever made - and you must see the extras/making of - to marvel at it even more

 

[Quazza]

what I see killing us (besides rubbish disposal) going into attack is the oppositions loose man in defense. Everyone's doing it now. We need to call their bluff MUCH earlier and make that player (ie Maxwell) accountable

 

[The Coach]

Snipa1? lol I like that might have to change my nickname, you are a fool. So boys and girls lets not get angry, or criticise the shit performances just in case 30yearfool will call you a Snipa.

And to think you two are/were listed as Friends

If you feel that way you can always leave.

The power of suggestion Jnb

 

[Alpha1]

And to think you two are/were listed as Friends



The power of suggestion Jnb

Friends come in different shades of grey.

 

[gbatman]

what I see killing us (besides rubbish disposal) going into attack is the oppositions loose man in defense. Everyone's doing it now. We need to call their bluff MUCH earlier and make that player (ie Maxwell) accountable

Yes exactly! we need to do things better!

Why not have Fev told to lead at the loose man and us to put it high on his head and let nature take it's course...

Why not move the loose man's opponent to the boundary in the forward pocket...

Come on coaches, figure it out.

 

[Bluebear]

Yes exactly! we need to do things better!

Why not have Fev told to lead at the loose man and us to put it high on his head and let nature take it's course...

We do. All Presti has to do is body Fev at the right point and he doesn't get his leap right. No mark, and you hope for a crumber.

So your genius new game plan is "kick it high to a 2 on 1".

Wow..........isn't that exactly what you have been complaining about us doing.........and it doesn't work.........and the kick (on Friday at least) won't be precise enough to advantage Fev anyway...........

Why not move the loose man's opponent to the boundary in the forward pocket...

Come on coaches, figure it out.

Like this doesn't happen?
Remember back tot he last time we played the Roos? When Ratten was "outcoached" by Laidley.

Do you remember we kicked it to Fev outnumbered while Cloke, Kreuzer and Fisher (at different times) all stood unattended inside F50?

Again, it doesn't just come down to structure, but execution. Our mids need to make the right decision and execute well.

I have been trying to figure out if you are ill informed and just typing the first thing that comes into your head, or a very clever troll.

I'm going with the former ATM.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Most of the issues with game plan and kicking/disposal efficiencies are just a non issue. Yes they exist but for a very obvious reason. Carlton's games played and average age.

Until a majority of our list reaches 22-27 and play 100-150+ games there will be crazy games with up and down results. Every other team, even Geelong and St Kilda who rebuilt their list ahead of us went through the same thing. To expect us with our current ave age and games played to be consistent is just a joke.

A lot of people like to compare us to other young lists but we are not similar to them in the fact that we dont have a spread of 6-8 key old players to lead the way. We have turned our list over completely and only have 3-4 mature players. This explains the reason for our inconsitency along with young age and less games played!

Has Ratten cost us a game or two...probably given he is head of the coaching which includes game strategy - he takes the final blame. If like in Adelaide the players couldnt even get close to implementing his strategy, then he may have raised the bar too high ahead of time! It is a debatable thing but he is a developing coach and also makes mistakes like the players.Is he a crap coach...no, is he a great coach ..not right now. He is doing a decent job and learning as he goes.

The focus should be on our list in terms of can it get us a premiership during the window of 2011-2014. Maybe! We have a good core group of 8 players we can rely on in terms of meeting the quality requirements. We have 6-8 others depending on point of view who can sometimes meet the mark and sometimes not meet the required mark. We have the next group of 8-10 players who are not up to premiership standard. Playing 1 good game in 5 isnt premiership standard, e.g. Fisher/Bentick/Hartlett/Russell/Wiggins/Cloke quite a few others.

How we turn these players over for decent ones is the key to us winning a premiership...which is what it is all about!

This is the real issue to discuss, not kicking efficency so much on one particular game!

 

[gbatman]

We do. All Presti has to do is body Fev at the right point and he doesn't get his leap right. No mark, and you hope for a crumber.
So your genius new game plan is "kick it high to a 2 on 1".- I don't see what's wrong with setting up the loose man to be crunched, but it is something to do sparingly and early.



Do you remember we kicked it to Fev outnumbered while Cloke, Kreuzer and Fisher (at different times) all stood unattended inside F50?

Again, it doesn't just come down to structure, but execution. Our mids need to make the right decision and execute well. - Sigh, I have noticed this, I remeber back to the doggies game where Russell was in the goal square all on his own and Judd kicked to Fev who missed from outside 50 on an angle. Our vision is poor. As good as Fev is, if he was to get injured and miss 5 or so games it would be good for our side to learn to go forward without him. We are dumb and blind going forward, totally agree.

How do we fix player mentality? Sometime we should be going to Fevola a lot, sometimes we shouldn't, our coaches and more so players need to know when to and when not to.

 

[Bluebear]

I don't see what's wrong with setting up the loose man to be crunched, but it is something to do sparingly and early.

Nothing, other than to do it the kick needs to be sent to the exact spot.......and if we could kick to the exact spot why would we not, as you suggested, just play through Maxwells man in a dangerous position. Fev will still try and contest the ball, end up crashing into the loose man, man not have a big physical impact on him and not win the footy. That's a win to the defence.

Much better to utilise the loose player, but to do this we must play on quickly from defence and be accurate with our disposal. This is what beats zones and loose men.

Slow ball movement that ultimately misses the target plays right into their hands.

Sigh, I have noticed this, I remeber back to the doggies game where Russell was in the goal square all on his own and Judd kicked to Fev who missed from outside 50 on an angle. Our vision is poor. As good as Fev is, if he was to get injured and miss 5 or so games it would be good for our side to learn to go forward without him. We are dumb and blind going forward, totally agree.

How do we fix player mentality? Sometime we should be going to Fevola a lot, sometimes we shouldn't, our coaches and more so players need to know when to and when not to.

There is hope for you yet gbatman.

As you can see, the right options are there.

One of the first rebounds from defensive 50 Friday night saw Simmo explode off HB, have a bounce and drill the ball to Fev. Fev had Presti iced by 2-3m and the quickness of movement did't allow the loose man to get back.

The kick fell short by 2m, Presti closed as Fev slowed to pick it up.......the loose man comes in and mops up, and instead of Fev shooting for goal from 45out, 45 angle, we get scored on going back the other way.

There is no game plan in the world that can cover for:

• Poor decisions
• Poor deisposal
• Missed tackles
• Lack of intensity
• failure to block for teamates
• Failure to run hard to receive

Maybe the coaches can cop the blame to some degree for our mental state, but you can't judge the game plan unless we are actually executing it well, and still not getting results (see Tigers and Freo )

 

[Blue since 72]

Nothing, other than to do it the kick needs to be sent to the exact spot.......and if we could kick to the exact spot why would we not, as you suggested, just play through Maxwells man in a dangerous position. Fev will still try and contest the ball, end up crashing into the loose man, man not have a big physical impact on him and not win the footy. That's a win to the defence.

Much better to utilise the loose player, but to do this we must play on quickly from defence and be accurate with our disposal. This is what beats zones and loose men.

Slow ball movement that ultimately misses the target plays right into their hands.

There is hope for you yet gbatman.

As you can see, the right options are there.

One of the first rebounds from defensive 50 Friday night saw Simmo explode off HB, have a bounce and drill the ball to Fev. Fev had Presti iced by 2-3m and the quickness of movement did't allow the loose man to get back.

The kick fell short by 2m, Presti closed as Fev slowed to pick it up.......the loose man comes in and mops up, and instead of Fev shooting for goal from 45out, 45 angle, we get scored on going back the other way.


There is no game plan in the world that can cover for:

• Poor decisions
• Poor deisposal
• Missed tackles
• Lack of intensity
• failure to block for teamates
• Failure to run hard to receive

Maybe the coaches can cop the blame to some degree for our mental state, but you can't judge the game plan unless we are actually executing it well, and still not getting results (see Tigers and Freo )

Well said. Doesn't really matter what your forward line strategy is or how many gun targets you have down there when a combo of some or all of the above occurs.
Funny how when we win the centre bounce/stoppage, produce accurate, fast ball movement by foot even if it is only to Fev we seem to win more games than not.
I wouldn't rate anybody in Geelong's forward line above average except for Steve Johnson and they do pretty well. Its not really about having multiple options in the forward 50, its about winning the ball and getting it in there quickly and accurately. Quite happy to watch Fev alone kick goals all day if that happens. Have the mids do a bit of Benny Cousins gut running and they can get some action too. Pretty sure they were doing that in the first few games of the season. When did Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Stevens (yes he's missed some), Grigg etc last kick a goal or 2?

 

[laminex]

Another great post by 30YearBlue. I guess you found a lot of positives from Friday night huh. I mean I bet you already have a ton of excuses for the passengers in our side, and also the disgraceful skills of ours. FM we should all just bow down to you and cheer on our side to greater degrees of shitness.

Mate you bag the hell out of the club dont ya.