List Mgmt. Our Midfield

[Kramer1]

What I am find interesting is thinking about what we do with Murphy. Probably a good problem to have.

Think we still have a place for our second best mid

 

[The Dominator7]

Funny how last year I was thinking please get Kelly, yet would now be disappointed should we acquire him for what we'd have to pay next year.
It's easy to say he's a great player so just get him, but how much impact and improvement would he alone add to our midfield, for the price by way of trade picks and contract, against other areas of the group we require input into?

Obviously somewhat different but it's arguable whether Ablett made Geelong better this year, or made them worse for the way they had to juggle things around to accomodate him.

The overall dynamic of the team/squad changes and even though the numbers may sometimes point to a win, you may just be inviting a loss. Leave Kelly....we have other rabbits to fry.

Kelly is going to cost a mint in $$ and draft picks. There wil be multiple clubs into him, and all the GWS free agent boys like there was with Shiel this year, and they are all perceived as gettable. We might get one we might not but everyone is having a swing!!

I look at Brissie, how good did they do to get Neale this year? But the best part for them (publicly anyway) was they seemingly didn't have to compete with other clubs and no-one saw it coming until it was too late and Neale had made a decision - that's the sort of move I'd like to see from us in 2019.

All fine in theory...now who ???

 

[Masqualero]

I've said this before and I'll undoubtedly say it again, but one person - regardless of how good/bad - does not make a football team. Should Cripps get injured, in the immediate short term - the next 2-3 weeks - we'll suffer for his absence, but from that point the coaches will have had an adequate amount of time to adjust their plans, to try to innovate our clearance setup, to maneuver things around to cater for his absence until he returns.

This is not something that is just a hypothetical, either. In 2017, Cripps and Ed both got injured going into the end of the season, and within 2 weeks we were winning roughly the same number of clearances and contested ball.

Obviously, you want your best 22 on the park, but there's far more to gain from the rest of the team being forced to step up and become real players than from us just growing. It is through adversity that humans are made into giants, and into leaders.

Definately agree that if all your bottom 6 improves that will have a substantial impact on our group, moreso than just 1 player however Shiel would have improved the running power and overall strength of our midfield compared with any of the mids we did pick up to the point where we shouldn't discredit him simply because we didn't get him.
Just that for our list specifically Shiel would have offered a lot for the next 2 years (unless we land someone next year) while we wait for that progression and improvement that you are talking about, too many kids in the middle and we get overrun which is why we flooded defence in 16 and 17, last year we attempted to have more players forward of the ball and our lack of running strength got exposed.
We had to play Kerridge, Graham and a few others to make up for that, players that are not best 22 but needed to play for running power.
I think it is important for our young kids to have stronger, better players to learn from and competitive games are much more educational than blowouts IMO.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Kelly is going to cost a mint in $$ and draft picks. There wil be multiple clubs into him, and all the GWS free agent boys like there was with Shiel this year, and they are all perceived as gettable. We might get one we might not but everyone is having a swing!!

I look at Brissie, how good did they do to get Neale this year? But the best part for them (publicly anyway) was they seemingly didn't have to compete with other clubs and no-one saw it coming until it was too late and Neale had made a decision - that's the sort of move I'd like to see from us in 2019.

All fine in theory...now who ???

Not worried about the draft picks. More worried about cap space in 2-3 years time when our youngsters push up the ranks.

Successful clubs draft their stars and trade for needs

 

[The Bighouse]

Kelly is going to cost a mint in $$ and draft picks. There wil be multiple clubs into him, and all the GWS free agent boys like there was with Shiel this year, and they are all perceived as gettable. We might get one we might not but everyone is having a swing!!

I look at Brissie, how good did they do to get Neale this year? But the best part for them (publicly anyway) was they seemingly didn't have to compete with other clubs and no-one saw it coming until it was too late and Neale had made a decision - that's the sort of move I'd like to see from us in 2019.

All fine in theory...now who ???

Exactly, same applied with Shiel & Setterfield, was heavily leaning towards Setters as the preferred target due to the costs associated.

Neale was a superb get by Brisbane.

There’s a lot of longer contracts out there (though diminishing in staying the course); Parker, Macrae, Oliver, Angus Brayshaw, M.Crouch, Laird, Ross.

Grundy, De Goey, Sier, Whitfield, Taranto maybe a Josh Dunkley as possible targets of varying values.

 

[Jeremias]

Midfield is now deep and hugely talented, albeit young and very inexperienced.

We have invested plenty to get this group together, and now development becomes absolutely crucial, an area we have been sorely lacking in previously, but one which it seems is now at the forefront of our attention.

Think we still need to add some pace into the mix, but we've got the grunt, ball-winning ability, and endurance well covered for now, I think.

Some will make it big and others may not, but what is clear, is that it will be a joy watching this young group develop over the coming years, both individually and as a collective.

For 2019, we should not underestimate the importance of Kreuzer, Murphy and Ed Curnow. As much as we are buoyed by the talent the young group has, they have plenty of work to do yet, and the experienced heads remain as important as ever.

 

[Gethelred]

Definately agree that if all your bottom 6 improves that will have a substantial impact on our group, moreso than just 1 player however Shiel would have improved the running power and overall strength of our midfield compared with any of the mids we did pick up to the point where we shouldn't discredit him simply because we didn't get him.
Just that for our list specifically Shiel would have offered a lot for the next 2 years (unless we land someone next year) while we wait for that progression and improvement that you are talking about, too many kids in the middle and we get overrun which is why we flooded defence in 16 and 17, last year we attempted to have more players forward of the ball and our lack of running strength got exposed.
We had to play Kerridge, Graham and a few others to make up for that, players that are not best 22 but needed to play for running power.
I think it is important for our young kids to have stronger, better players to learn from and competitive games are much more educational than blowouts IMO.

I agree with you about Shiel, think it's a huge sliding doors moment, for both us and for him.

What I disagreed with was the impact Cripps absence would have on the rest of the group. Last year, it'd have been huge, as big as Docs if not worse. This season, though, while we cannot foresee cover ATM for his input it would happen as a matter of statistics in 2-3 weeks, and we might actually be better for it should it occur, due to younger players having to step up and fill the void.

 

[Styxx]

Don't think the midfield is too one paced.

Sure Bam Bam, Ed, aren't the fastest but Dow has huge speed, SPS is a jet and don't forget Fish.

Think its a nice mix, just needs experience to gel and take off.

 

[Masqualero]

I agree with you about Shiel, think it's a huge sliding doors moment, for both us and for him.

What I disagreed with was the impact Cripps absence would have on the rest of the group. Last year, it'd have been huge, as big as Docs if not worse. This season, though, while we cannot foresee cover ATM for his input it would happen as a matter of statistics in 2-3 weeks, and we might actually be better for it should it occur, due to younger players having to step up and fill the void.

Ahhh I see, what I meant was if we have 2 injuries to either Murphy and Ed it would very hard to cover, if its one of those plus Cripps then we'd be stuffed, sorry should have made that point clearer

 

[Arr0w]

Don't think the midfield is too one paced.

Sure Bam Bam, Ed, aren't the fastest but Dow has huge speed, SPS is a jet and don't forget Fish.

Think its a nice mix, just needs experience to gel and take off.

I think it is one paced

Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield, Walsh, Stocker, SPS

Guys like Dow, Fisher help

A couple of Pickett, Garlett, Cuners need to step up

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I think it is one paced

Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield, Walsh, Stocker, SPS

Guys like Dow, Fisher help

A couple of Pickett, Garlett, Cuners need to step up

Cripps needs a hard runner next to him, not necessarily a fast runner. Someone like Walsh I'm hoping

 

[norway blue]

Don't think the midfield is too one paced.

Sure Bam Bam, Ed, aren't the fastest but Dow has huge speed, SPS is a jet and don't forget Fish.

Think its a nice mix, just needs experience to gel and take off.

Agree totally . And speed can also equate to a one step hand off to a five metre burst player going forward with killer instinct and low watchful eyes . Greg Williams was slow but he was fast. It’s team pace imo .


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[TwiggleyFanClub]

Kelly is going to cost a mint in $$ and draft picks. There wil be multiple clubs into him, and all the GWS free agent boys like there was with Shiel this year, and they are all perceived as gettable. We might get one we might not but everyone is having a swing!!

I look at Brissie, how good did they do to get Neale this year? But the best part for them (publicly anyway) was they seemingly didn't have to compete with other clubs and no-one saw it coming until it was too late and Neale had made a decision - that's the sort of move I'd like to see from us in 2019.

All fine in theory...now who ???

North have been into Kelly for years. They have $$ to burn and could well jump deep into finals with him in the side.

 

[The Bighouse]

Agree totally . And speed can also equate to a one step hand off to a five metre burst player going forward with killer instinct and low watchful eyes . Greg Williams was slow but he was fast. It’s team pace imo .


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Dishing off to players with better disposal shall help too. Well positioned stoppages, hand’s off for a well executed kick to the next line, with capable strong marking forwards.

 

[norway blue]

Dishing off to players with better disposal shall help too. Well positioned stoppages, hand’s off for a well executed kick to the next line, with capable strong marking forwards.

Building a list. Go The Navy Blues.


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[HARKER]

I think it is one paced
Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield, Walsh, Stocker, SPS
Guys like Dow, Fisher help
A couple of Pickett, Garlett, Cuners need to step up

Harsh but seemingly true and maybe the guys we have will yet be good enough and break-away speed will be no issue at all.......but.....it would be good to have just a little bit more. Guess the picture will open up next year, but another ball carrier or two, may not go astray.

 

[Bluey24]

Such an exciting young midfield group. Now, they're just young....

Next season we should begin to see more than glimpses, but quarters / halves of football where they all gel and SHOW US WHAT THEY GOTTTT

(extra points if you get the reference)

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I'm happy we have a professional list management team headed by SOS building our list, go back a few years ago to see how far we have come. The midfield is now being added to and will take some tweaking to get it perfect, but so far our midfield has been built with best available at the right price in accordance with our list build priorities. Great stuff and Go Baggers

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Kelly is going to cost a mint in $$ and draft picks. There wil be multiple clubs into him, and all the GWS free agent boys like there was with Shiel this year, and they are all perceived as gettable. We might get one we might not but everyone is having a swing!!

I look at Brissie, how good did they do to get Neale this year? But the best part for them (publicly anyway) was they seemingly didn't have to compete with other clubs and no-one saw it coming until it was too late and Neale had made a decision - that's the sort of move I'd like to see from us in 2019.

All fine in theory...now who ???

Kelly will be out of contract by the end of the year right? If that's the case, draft picks are not much of the issue here.

Of course we'd be giving the giants two first-round picks, but if they are too picky and refuse that, they could likely end up with nothing if Kelly's eyes aren't set anywhere else (which is extremely unlikely anyway). Kelly will just be picked up as a DFA or enter the PS draft. I suppose though that Kelly wouldn't want that to be the case.

Money though I do agree with. However, we have to look like an attractive destination to him. That means playing well during the season. If not, we might as well kiss the chances of winning his services goodbye.

Don't see him picking us anyway. Never in a million years. Besides, I rather Coniglio given our needs.

 

[norway blue]

Maybe we unearth a togetherness . A building together on the March .


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[Arr0w]

Harsh but seemingly true and maybe the guys we have will yet be good enough and break-away speed will be no issue at all.......but.....it would be good to have just a little bit more. Guess the picture will open up next year, but another ball carrier or two, may not go astray.

Hopefully we address that in the off season, I would target Cunningham from the Swans who is a FA next year

 

[ParapMarkets]

I think it is one paced

Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield, Walsh, Stocker, SPS

Guys like Dow, Fisher help

A couple of Pickett, Garlett, Cuners need to step up

I agree with what you’re saying, but when you look at the top 8 teams from this year it’s hard to think of many mids with break away speed. Geelong obviously have Danger, Shuey has a bit for WC. Melbourne don’t really have any if we are talking about midfielders. It’s really hard to think of many off the top of my head. A lot of the real speedsters tend to play of half back or in the forward line.

 

[ParapMarkets]

That may seem a little harsh on face value, but again we seem to be obsessed about adding talent without considering what that right talent may be.
Which of our mids currently have positions they can take up when not required in the midfield? I think we'll just have to find that out, now.

Subjective analysis of our younger mids:
Cripps is one out of the box and doesn't have to be able to play anywhere else should it not be required.
Fisher is also one that has the ability to be able to play in a variety of roles. (mid, wing, forward)
Dow is a gun and something we just don't have in any other mid - genuine acceleration and burst-power. Likely to become a centre square starter.
Walsh is all class and can make time stand still. Having a strong endurance base and work ethic will hold him in very good stead.
Setterfield is to us at least, a little bit of an unknown but his height, power and clean hands make him a strong point of difference.

Petrevski-Seton. If he doesn't become an important part of centre square engagement, what do we do with him?
Kennedy: Midfield or bust to me.
Stocker may be competing for the one spot along with Kennedy.

You always need depth in the midfield but the question is and will be, have we the right types to be able to mix and match to suit and how many of these younger guys, can we genuinely carry in the one team at any one time?
I won't include all those other guys we like to mention as I don't see them as genuine stoppage players. (Lang, O'Brien, Wiliamson, Pickett etc)
Remember also, that ECurnow and Murphy will be around for a couple of years yet and once the NB's becomes a staple diet for one....one can easily get lost.

For every time we take one player for this spot, we're denying another for what may possibly be a more required hole to fill......even if that individual isn't as gifted or talented.
It's a sum of the parts game and I just don't see all those parts being in place yet. That may not matter, but if we're still kicking 60 - 80 points a game next year, we may wish that we approached our intake just a little differently. I'm not saying that it's wrong but just seems to me that we may be doubling up just a little here and there and ignored (forced to ignore) other areas of the ground that may yet come back to bite. We'll see.

It’s not hard to see why coaches love versatility, my dream is that we have an army that can rotate through the middle and to other positions to even out the workload. I agree there are a few for whom it’s hard to see a second position (e.g Bam Bam), I do think SPS can be effective rotating forward and midfield though. I really hope Cunningham can make it, I have my doubts on him, but there is no denying his AFL attributes, he could add another dimension to our team if he can make it.

 

[Arr0w]

I agree with what you’re saying, but when you look at the top 8 teams from this year it’s hard to think of many mids with break away speed. Geelong obviously have Danger, Shuey has a bit for WC. Melbourne don’t really have any if we are talking about midfielders. It’s really hard to think of many off the top of my head. A lot of the real speedsters tend to play of half back or in the forward line.

Don't disagree with that and given the nature of contested ball, I am satisfied with what we are creating. I worry about the lack of consistency on the outside, so that is why I mentioned the likes of Cuners, Pickett, Garlett etc having to step up

If you look at WC, no real elite mid, but they do have Shuey and Yeo with some zip, then you add the likes of Rioli, Ryan, Venebles etc on the outside, it is a nice balance

 

[Jeremias]

It’s not hard to see why coaches love versatility, my dream is that we have an army that can rotate through the middle and to other positions to even out the workload. I agree there are a few for whom it’s hard to see a second position (e.g Bam Bam)

Forward.

Kennedy is terrific overhead for his size and showed himself to be more than capable in front of goals as a junior.

He's an inside mid first and foremost but certainly think he can push forward at times.