Our Rebuldiing in 2nd Year

[Dave The Man]

it Started after the 2006 Season when we Traded Tarrant and Got rid of alot of Young KPP players that we thought would be no good which forced us to draft Mainly KPP in the 2006 draft in Reid,Brown and Dawes and not go for any good young Mids in the draft. We basically got Dick and Wellingham came in the Rookie Draft. Then in 2007 we got a Wood for Pick 14 but we did need a Young Good Ruckman and Then we got McCarthy who is something we do need in a Inside Mid with a bit of grunt but then we got 2 more KPP in Thoolan and Casey-Leigh. Barham was good for Father-Son because he gives us some speed on the wings.

We just have to be patient and wait maybe for a few more years for the Young KPP to Develop and Grow into there body's, Then we can have good consistent seasons at the top

 

[swiftdog]

it Started after the 2006 Season when we Traded Tarrant and Got rid of alot of Young KPP players that we thought would be no good which forced us to draft Mainly KPP in the 2006 draft in Reid,Brown and Dawes and not go for any good young Mids in the draft. We basically got Dick and Wellingham came in the Rookie Draft. Then in 2007 we got a Wood for Pick 14 but we did need a Young Good Ruckman and Then we got McCarthy who is something we do need in a Inside Mid with a bit of grunt but then we got 2 more KPP in Thoolan and Casey-Leigh. Barham was good for Father-Son because he gives us some speed on the wings.

We just have to be patient and wait maybe for a few more years for the Young KPP to Develop and Grow into there body's, Then we can have good consistent seasons at the top

No, you can never wait for something to happen because it might not happen. Strike while we can. We have shown over 2007-08 that we can beat the top sides and play finals football. Why wait? Wood, Thoolen, Casey-Leigh, Mcarthy and Wellingham may all turn out to be duds. No point in waiting around.

 

[HFF]

it Started after the 2006 Season when we Traded Tarrant and Got rid of alot of Young KPP players that we thought would be no good which forced us to draft Mainly KPP in the 2006 draft in Reid,Brown and Dawes and not go for any good young Mids in the draft. We basically got Dick and Wellingham came in the Rookie Draft. Then in 2007 we got a Wood for Pick 14 but we did need a Young Good Ruckman and Then we got McCarthy who is something we do need in a Inside Mid with a bit of grunt but then we got 2 more KPP in Thoolan and Casey-Leigh. Barham was good for Father-Son because he gives us some speed on the wings.

We just have to be patient and wait maybe for a few more years for the Young KPP to Develop and Grow into there body's, Then we can have good consistent seasons at the top

Dave, our rebuild actually started in 2004. Many don't rate Egan but he still has something to offer and we just need to be patient with him. Rus is injury prone it seems but he is another we must stick with because the talent is unquestionable. It's just about getting his body right. Also got Cloke F/S.

2005 was super for us when we landed Thomas and Pendlebury with Cook, Iles, JA and Stanley progressing nicely. 2006 yielded Reid, Brown, Dawes, Dick, Goldsack. 2007 has delivered Wood, J-Mac, Thoolen and Barham.

Also the success of the rookie draft has been great for us and has given us Clarke, Wellingham and Cox and even Harry O all of whom are on the senior list now. I left out Toovey as I don't rate him.

From the start of the rebuild in 2004 the only player not to have remained on our list is Iacobucci. That's very promising in terms of keeping a stable list together for an extended period of time to develop.

I agree with you we need to be patient and perhaps wait another year or two. Lets not forget this year's draft runs deep and we have 2 scholarship holders in Reed and Keefe who appear likely to be on our list in 2009.

 

[Godfrey Jones]

it Started after the 2006 Season when we Traded Tarrant and Got rid of alot of Young KPP players that we thought would be no good which forced us to draft Mainly KPP in the 2006 draft in Reid,Brown and Dawes and not go for any good young Mids in the draft. We basically got Dick and Wellingham came in the Rookie Draft. Then in 2007 we got a Wood for Pick 14 but we did need a Young Good Ruckman and Then we got McCarthy who is something we do need in a Inside Mid with a bit of grunt but then we got 2 more KPP in Thoolan and Casey-Leigh. Barham was good for Father-Son because he gives us some speed on the wings.

We just have to be patient and wait maybe for a few more years for the Young KPP to Develop and Grow into there body's, Then we can have good consistent seasons at the top

hahaha


anyways i think i know what you're getting at dave, last year we overachieved really with such a young list, and this year too, on paper we should not be competing for a flag just yet, but we are, which is great for our young list - fantastic experience

our window should be open for the next five years and we are primed, especially when our core group hist the 23-24 mark, that is cloke, pendles, thomas, clarke etc etc


whats worrying is that we have still have a few holes to fill:

forward line - rocca is going, reid is a prospect, dawes is a project, and rusling is injured...
midfield - who will replace burns and obree?? stanley and cook i have high hopes for, and mccarthy seems to be getting high praise...
ruck - its always a problem down at pie land. wood has a bright future, bryan is playing as well as he can but can he keep it up, fraser is fraser lol

 

[shawthing09]

I agree with most of this. There is still an absolute need to not ignore things as we have done in the past.

We did start the rebuild in 04 and have been building on the run if you will. The KPP look promising in O'Brien Cloke Ried and Brown. Pendles looks like a great mid.

The thing is we still need many more top class mids. Clarke looks promising as does Thomas but neither are been given much of a run in the middle and both for different reasons have a bit to work on in their reading of the play when in the middle.

Sharrord looks a top prospect.

Mccarthy looks good at VFL from early signs and players like Barham and Reed ( scholarship) are really good because wether they develop or not we have got them pretty much for nothing.

We still really IMO need a hard nosed midfielder, young who looks to have AFL star quality.

 

[Frederlick]

Send Rusling and Dick to Thailand and get them on Human Growth Hormone, will cure the shoulder for ever. Good enough for Lynch to use steroids to cure chronic fatigue, at least we know HGH works on joints. Our line up would be much deeper with those 2 firing.

 

[pieblessing]

I agree we are rebuilding and I think we need ot keep blooding hte youth. Egan forget him he is leaving at the end of this year, headed the same road as Cole. Just watching his efforts in the seconds. Yes we will probably mae the finals but who wants to just make the finals. We are not up with Hawks or Dogs this year.

I love the pies but losing twice to carlton in one year is a disgrace,

 

[Godfrey Jones]

Send Dick to Thailand and get him on Human Growth Hormone,

hahahahaha ok you guys are doing it on purpose now

 

[shawthing09]

The more I think about it. The more it just stands out that our prospects through the spine are very good. We just really lack a complete star mid. Pendles is a star mid but physicality is missing from his game, his not going to crash into a pack with reckless abandon, which is fine thats not his game. But we do need this type of player. Look at the three dominant teams atm and almost the last few. Players like Bartel and Corey. Hodge and Mitchell. Cross. Judd and Kerr. Kirk and Bolton. Who are able to win the ball in tight with strength have lead these teams to success by winning the ball first. We really need at least one if not too of this type of player.

 

[MarkT]

it Started after the 2006

Surely it started in the 2004? That’s when the coach said it started.

 

[btdg]

It seems interesting to me that Collingwood's recruiting strategy has heavily invested in goal-kicking outside midfielders. Didak, Thomas and Pendlebury were all taken with top-10 picks, with Davis and Medhurst also added to the mix. Its made your forward line consistent and pretty lethal (just so many options), but left your midfield vulnerable to exploitation in and under, particularly as O'Bree, Burns, Licuria et al get older

Do you guys reckon its a specific strategy on Collingwood's behalf to target those players, or just the luck of the draw? Certainly its had a huge effect on the style of game your team plays, so it could be a specific strategy. But at the same time, Medhurst was basically a freebie in the Tarrant deal, and Pendlebury and Thomas were arguably the 2 best available players at the time (if not the 2 most effective players in the draft at this point). Do Collingwood get credit for nabbing the best talents, or criticised for not creating a balance?

On that point, outside mids/small forwards are possibly the 'easiest' players to project in drafting because speed, kicking ability and 'flair' translate pretty well from juniors up. Is it 'cheap' recruiting to take those guys; obviously they're all fantastic players and it makes the recruiters look good to constantly get guys who are good at AFL level, but if you don't have balance...

FWIW, I think Collingwood have set themselves up well to compete and rebuilt reasonably well without spending much time down the bottom, which is admirable. The only question is how you restock that midfield (and, if it comes to it, how much you offer for Daniel Kerr in the offseason, which would probably solve that problem pretty quickly)

 

[Kirby]

^ I think we lacked class for so long that we invested in the classiest players possible, and the best players available at the time.

I wouldn't clasify pendles as an outside player either. He is a combination inside/outside player which is evidenced in his stats and general ability to clear the ball from in tight. He's 20 years old and that part of his game will continue to evolve. People think that because he doesn't fall to his knees and wrap the ball up that he doesn't operate inside at all.

The problem with our grunty in and unders are that they are long in the tooth. we have a couple of young prospects in the VFL such as Stanley and Mccarthy but they are yet to make their mark. But yes, we do need more and we would love Kerr but we all know it wont happen.

 

[adzarani]

Anyone think to ask why we were rebuilding after just nudging into the 8, and 2 years on the bottom?

MM said 04 & 05 were rebuilding years, we can add 06, 07, 08 to that I guess.

00, 01, 02 were rebuilding years as well, what was built? What is the best team we have put on the park this decade?

it the concept of re-building thats the problem

what about just plain old building?

i.e establishing something solid that will last for more than a year

 

[Godfrey Jones]

i.e establishing something solid that will last for more than a year

which is what we are doing now, no??

it wont happen over night.

12 debutants last year and we made a prelim...we are way ahead of schedule and our window is open for the next 5 years

 

[adzarani]

Collingwood 2003 GF Team

Backs Ben Johnson Shane Waklin Rhys Shaw

Half Backs James Clement Jason Cloke Richard Cole

Centre Shane Woewodin Nathan Buckley (c) Alan Didak

Half Forwards Shane O'Bree .Simon Prestigiacomo. Chris Tarrant

Full Forward Leon Davis Ben Kinnear Paul Licuria

Followers Josh Fraser Scott Burns Heath Scotland

Interchange Brodie Holland Ryan Lonie Matthew Lokan . Tristan Walker


This is what we had 5 years ago........

We need to realise that the rest of the competition is not going to stand still.......Hawthorn, Geelong.......Carlton?

Why did that 2003 side need to be rebuilt every year for the next 5 seasons? When none of the players in that side retired until the end of 2007.

14 of the players from that side were still on our list in 2007. So it wasn't a matter of players retiring, it wasn't slary cap issues, what was it?

Fair enough it wasn't the best side getting around, but ppl talk about it like we had some powerhouse list that just had to be rebuilt after the lofty heights of 02 / 03. Rubbish, we had an average list, who played some brilliantly engineered footy put together by MM. It wasn't a massive dynasty that had to come to an end!!

Why exactly did we need to shuffle the bottom 15 on the list for the next 5 years for no real overall benifit. We have shown no real improvement since 2001!!!! Just different names for basically the same output. In 5 years, if nothing changes, we will most likely be the same sort of side as we are now.

When will pies fans realise that we don't build sides, MM manipulates the media and the supporters expectations to ensure a favorable outcome for himself.

He is a brilliant coach, but he understands that coaching is more about public perception than winning games of footy.

It's nothing more than blind faith to think we will be a force in 5 years time, complete and absoloute blind faith.

 

[Big Bucks]

it Started after the 2006 Season when we Traded Tarrant and Got rid of alot of Young KPP players that we thought would be no good which forced us to draft Mainly KPP in the 2006 draft in Reid,Brown and Dawes and not go for any good young Mids in the draft. We basically got Dick and Wellingham came in the Rookie Draft. Then in 2007 we got a Wood for Pick 14 but we did need a Young Good Ruckman and Then we got McCarthy who is something we do need in a Inside Mid with a bit of grunt but then we got 2 more KPP in Thoolan and Casey-Leigh. Barham was good for Father-Son because he gives us some speed on the wings.

We just have to be patient and wait maybe for a few more years for the Young KPP to Develop and Grow into there body's, Then we can have good consistent seasons at the top

This is the biggest load of shit i have heard since George Dubya said their were weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.
Wait! we have been waiting since 19 ____ing 90.

 

[FIGJAM]

It seems interesting to me that Collingwood's recruiting strategy has heavily invested in goal-kicking outside midfielders. Didak, Thomas and Pendlebury were all taken with top-10 picks, with Davis and Medhurst also added to the mix. Its made your forward line consistent and pretty lethal (just so many options), but left your midfield vulnerable to exploitation in and under, particularly as O'Bree, Burns, Licuria et al get older

Do you guys reckon its a specific strategy on Collingwood's behalf to target those players, or just the luck of the draw? Certainly its had a huge effect on the style of game your team plays, so it could be a specific strategy. But at the same time, Medhurst was basically a freebie in the Tarrant deal, and Pendlebury and Thomas were arguably the 2 best available players at the time (if not the 2 most effective players in the draft at this point). Do Collingwood get credit for nabbing the best talents, or criticised for not creating a balance?

On that point, outside mids/small forwards are possibly the 'easiest' players to project in drafting because speed, kicking ability and 'flair' translate pretty well from juniors up. Is it 'cheap' recruiting to take those guys; obviously they're all fantastic players and it makes the recruiters look good to constantly get guys who are good at AFL level, but if you don't have balance...

FWIW, I think Collingwood have set themselves up well to compete and rebuilt reasonably well without spending much time down the bottom, which is admirable. The only question is how you restock that midfield (and, if it comes to it, how much you offer for Daniel Kerr in the offseason, which would probably solve that problem pretty quickly)

Partial "luck of draw", partial strategy / need.

We are definitely in a rebuild, and I think all areas needed to be addressed after the slump of 04 and 05, with older players nearing the end.

The top picks of 04 and 05 netted us some quicker mids, which addressed an immediate need, but who doesn't need line breakers long term. Of the three top tenners taken, Egan looks unlikely to make it (although who the ____ knows with him!). Thomas and Pendlebury are hits. All three are slightly different. I don't know which bona fide inside mid I'd take over Pendles & Daisy. Obviously Lewis is better than Egan, but we were never going to draft him (or Thomson from Port).

Of the remaining mids, we got Iacobucci, Stanley, Cook (and Shannon Cox). Of those two are inside. Yakka is with your ressies, and it's a shame he didn't magically turn into a Mitchell, but a 60's pick is a relative long shot. I like Stanley in that I'd like him on a 1990's AFL list, but I can't see him making it against the superior modern breed of inside clearance freaks.

In 2006, we addressed our second, but vitally important need; the spine. Reid and Brown top ten, then Dawes and Goldsack later. We picked up Dick who is as outside as Eddie Betts, but whose skills (foot especially) are so ridiculously good that it was worth forgetting about need at that pick. Wellingham was rookied in 2006 and whilst he played crap the other day, but he is a possible for the modern day inside / outside clearance king. He has the skills and application inside, and he just needs a bit more muscle and coaching. Marty Clarke will at worst be handy, but it's hard to tell if that is in an inside position.

In 2007 we went some way to fixing the ruck (hoo-____en-ray!). Wood has been good despite being third banana recently. We drafted Thoolen who is the project of all project talls! John McCarthy however is a tall mid with Scotty Burns like desparation and self-disregard for safety. He has some skills too.

It is clear we have covered many areas, but we definitely need some quality inside clearance kings. If history is anything to go by, Hine and our club will address need heavily. The best available mantra is fine for picks one to five, but it rapidly blurs and I think you are deluding yourself if your selections aren't influenced by need!

vinnie covered it on another board in that you can get some decent inside mids in the late first to second round (at least historically). If we don't trade, then I will bet a steak dinner on us going for a clearance specialist with our first pick.

 

[swiftdog]

I have full faith in MM and although some of us think we know better than him the truth is he is arguably the best coach in the game. I like the way our list is heading at the moment. Thomas could be made to get a few cheap kicks in the middle or he could be made to 'earn' them in the forward line. He could move Heater into the middle but he wants him to learn how to shake off a tag. I would like to see Brown become our FB for the next 10 years but I think that the reason he is occasionly played forward is to add another string to his bow. What I am getting at is that MM is making our players do the hard yards now so that we will reap the rewards later on. However, he sees that we can win the premiership this year and that's why we are not completely bottoming out.

That's my take anyway.

 

[shawthing09]

Why did that 2003 side need to be rebuilt every year for the next 5 seasons? When none of the players in that side retired until the end of 2007.

we had an average list, who played some brilliantly engineered footy put together by MM. It wasn't a massive dynasty that had to come to an end!!

Why exactly did we need to shuffle the bottom 15 on the list for the next 5 years for no real overall benifit.

I think you answered your own questions in there. If you remember hawthorn went from Second on the ladder with Schwab declaring them next preimers very very fast to "rebuild" they traded aggresively to aquire the draft picks to build the side they have now (with the help of a couple priority picks along the way too.)

Of our 03 grand final team there wasn't too many players who we could afford to trade that had that sort of trade value to be worth trading