OX's comments on JON

[Sausage roll]

What's so difficult to understand? We passed on Clarke for JON and got Hughes 2nd pick anyway. Maybe Clarke will be better, maybe Hughes will, maybe Gourdis and/or Putt who we picked up in later drafts will be better than both of them. Regardless, we got a good key forward in Hughes and we've addressed our problem of both KP forwards and KP defenders during Wallace's time.

This perpetual Miller bashing is beyond ridiculous, particularly on the same weekend our 2nd round CHF from the same draft just kicked 6.1 and produced more than Clarke has so far to date. Were Brisbane idiots for not picking Hughes? Who can tell at this early stage?

As for Clarke being better than JON, we're a long way from determining that yet, besides which, they're completely different players picked to fill completely different roles.



LMAO, let us know when you think you've managed to post your first "issue" Troll.

Dozens of people (myself included) have responded to your 'JON should be sacked' trolling with numerous points about the virtues of showing patience with young players of obvious ability, your only comeback is to bleat 'JON should be sacked' another 100 times and pretend it'll pass for debate. It doesn't - it marks you as a bleating moron doing nothing but trying in vain to stick the knife into a young player who doesn't deserve it.

Between that and the very slim odds that you've ever flogged anything that wasn't attached to your own body, you're just a constant source of amusement.

Wow1
What a surpise, razor playing the man again!

You said JON had "improved" ....so what?
If you are seriously suggesting that this ret**d wil make it as an AFL player, you have even less idea than I thought.

No doubt, you were all for krakouer being given 7 years to develop as well? How did that one work out? Played about 4 decent games( usually in the wet!) but gee it was worth the wait!

 

[Rayzorwire]

More venomous player bashing with a ridiculous red herring strawman argument thrown in for good measure.

JON could go backwards like he was shot out of a cannon and he'd still be improving faster than you'll ever manage on the debating front.

 

[Bulldog89]

What's so difficult to understand? We passed on Clarke for JON and got Hughes 2nd pick anyway. Maybe Clarke will be better, maybe Hughes will, maybe Gourdis and/or Putt who we picked up in later drafts will be better than both of them. Regardless, we got a good key forward in Hughes and we've addressed our problem of both KP forwards and KP defenders during Wallace's time.

This perpetual Miller bashing is beyond ridiculous, particularly on the same weekend our 2nd round CHF from the same draft just kicked 6.1 and produced more than Clarke has so far to date. Were Brisbane idiots for not picking Hughes? Who can tell at this early stage?

As for Clarke being better than JON, we're a long way from determining that yet, besides which, they're completely different players picked to fill completely different roles.



LMAO, let us know when you think you've managed to post your first "issue" Troll.

Dozens of people (myself included) have responded to your 'JON should be sacked' trolling with numerous points about the virtues of showing patience with young players of obvious ability, your only comeback is to bleat 'JON should be sacked' another 100 times and pretend it'll pass for debate. It doesn't - it marks you as a bleating moron doing nothing but trying in vain to stick the knife into a young player who doesn't deserve it.

Between that and the very slim odds that you've ever flogged anything that wasn't attached to your own body, you're just a constant source of amusement.

well said mate im all for putting time into developing these kids champ.
and also its fitting sausage roll rhymes with troll im sick of these complete halfwits handing out floggings to our own kids that were attempting to develope.

 

[Sausage roll]

More venomous player bashing with a ridiculous red herring strawman argument thrown in for good measure.

JON could go backwards like he was shot out of a cannon and he'd still be improving faster than you'll ever manage on the debating front.

Again, this poor little man jsut simply can't adress the issue.

I'll take it as a yes re the krakouer question.

Another example of waiting for a kid to come good that simply didn't

 

[Tiger67]

Again, this poor little man jsut simply can't adress the issue.

I'll take it as a yes re the krakouer question.

Another example of waiting for a kid to come good that simply didn't

JON.....Previously Tambling....and before that Krakouer....
Is it just me or is there a pattern emerging.....a very shameful pattern

 

[_RT_]

Wow1
What a surpise, razor playing the man again!

You said JON had "improved" ....so what?
If you are seriously suggesting that this ret**d wil make it as an AFL player, you have even less idea than I thought.

No doubt, you were all for krakouer being given 7 years to develop as well? How did that one work out? Played about 4 decent games( usually in the wet!) but gee it was worth the wait!

Questions for you SR:
If Rance or Casserly were to average say 6 disposals 4 marks & 1 tackle per game for their first 9 games should we delist them or should we give them time to develop and find their feet?

How about if one of our young KPP in Gourdis or Putt was to average 7.8 disposals, 2.8 marks & 0.7 goals per game over their first 32 games should we delist them or should we stick with them and give them time to find their way in the game?

 

[_RT_]

Again, this poor little man jsut simply can't adress the issue.

I'll take it as a yes re the krakouer question.

Another example of waiting for a kid to come good that simply didn't

Meanwhile it seems like you're waiting for the kid to fail, so you can say you were right.

 

[Maybenextyear]

It's one thing waiting for a kid to develop if you see a hint of talent, but I'm sorry, there is absolutely nothing going on with JON. He has to be the most unlooking AFL player going around not only at Richmond but in the league. If some of you think he has something name it. All I see is bad decision making, bad disposal and a questional attack on the ball. Some of you really have to be kidding yourselves.

 

[Sausage roll]

Questions for you SR:
If Rance or Casserly were to average say 6 disposals 4 marks & 1 tackle per game for their first 9 games should we delist them or should we give them time to develop and find their feet?

How about if one of our young KPP in Gourdis or Putt was to average 7.8 disposals, 2.8 marks & 0.7 goals per game over their first 32 games should we delist them or should we stick with them and give them time to find their way in the game?

RT,
Unlike Rayzorwire, more than happy to answer. I am not bagging JON based on stats. They are somehwat meaningless. I am basing my considered judgement on his total lack of match awareness, poor decision making, poor positioning and missed tackles. he simply doesn't know what to do far too often. I don't doubt his toughness or athleticisim but he is so far off the mark in the "unteachables" ( what I mentioned above) of the game.

I haven't seen enough of Gourdis and Putt to comment

 

[Rayzorwire]

RT,
Unlike Rayzorwire, more than happy to answer.

RT asked you a question - I invite you to quote from any part of this thread where you've asked me a question which relates to JON, not ridiculous strawmen argument comparisons to Krakouer.

You can't because it doesn't exist, yet you still pretend you've advanced some sort of debate with your endless 'delist JON' garbage.

The only similarities between JON and Krakouer are that they're both Aboriginal, so perhaps that shows you what you get when you scratch the surface of a Sausage Roll.

 

[Sausage roll]

RT asked you a question - I invite you to quote from any part of this thread where you've asked me a question which relates to JON, not ridiculous strawmen argument comparisons to Krakouer.

You can't because it doesn't exist, yet you still pretend you've advanced some sort of debate with your endless 'delist JON' garbage.

The only similarities between JON and Krakouer are that they're both Aboriginal, so perhaps that shows you what you get when you scratch the surface of a Sausage Roll.

No doubt, you were all for krakouer being given 7 years to develop as well? How did that one work out?

Two question marks would suggest they are questions!!

Yes about krakouer but very related to JON!

LMAO!!

 

[the ranger]

What annoys me is that every time JON makes a poor decision, there is a howl of derision, but they ignore the good things he does and howl nowhere near as loudly when a Foley or Deledio makes a decision just as poor as anything JON has done.

JON should get another 3-4 years and 40-50 games to find his feet at AFL level. Personally, I don't think it will take even half that time for him to start shutting people up.

 

[Rayzorwire]

What annoys me is that every time JON makes a poor decision, there is a howl of derision, but they ignore the good things he does and howl nowhere near as loudly when a Foley or Deledio makes a decision just as poor as anything JON has done.

Absolutely ranger, add Cotchin to that list and several others. Someone told them Cotchin was outstanding, therefore his mistakes are aberrations, while JON's are vindication of their opinions. Everthing good JON does can never make up for a couple of mistakes. Bad cases of selective blindness.

JON should get another 3-4 years and 40-50 games to find his feet at AFL level. Personally, I don't think it will take even half that time for him to start shutting people up.

I have no doubt of it. The same people who bag Hyde, but admit JON is a fantastic athlete who tackles well, apparently can't even see a tagging role coming JON's way at the very least and him being a significant upgrade on the present. It's comical.

No doubt, you were all for krakouer being given 7 years to develop as well? How did that one work out?

Two question marks would suggest they are questions!!

Yes about krakouer but very related to JON!

Yes, we know. They're both Aboriginal, and opposites in almost every other way.

Krakouer had freakish football ability and no engine which could bring him into games as much as a senior player should be involved. Krakouer played through an era where specialist forward pockets suddenly ceased to exist, then couldn't develop enough athletic ability - speed or endurance - to be anything but a liability elsewhere.

JON is his complete opposite, a freakish athlete who still has plenty to learn about football, but with time will become so well drilled in what to do with the footy it won't matter. Daniel Cross is the perfect example of an outstanding footballer with ordinary skills and sometimes questionable decision making, but his athleticism, hardness, and the fact he can lay it off to someone else who uses the ball much better makes it largely irrelevant. There's plenty of others who are similar and similarly valuable.

As for the length of time Krakouer spent on the list, Wallace inherited a side where almost nobody was fit enough. Every player delisted before Krakouer had less ability, so it was worth a gamble that with a proper fitness regime for the first time in his career, he could gradually develop the required fitness to be something other than a largely worthless specialist forward pocket.

That gamble failed, but we lost nothing because it's not like we delisted anyone worth keeping in order to take that gamble. Some may throw Rodan into that debate, but he burned his bridges with us and needed a new club. Long term we won't miss him one iota.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Absolutely ranger, add Cotchin to that list and several others. Someone told them Cotchin was outstanding, therefore his mistakes are aberrations, while JON's are vindication of their opinions. Everthing good JON does can never make up for a couple of mistakes. Bad cases of selective blindness.

I have no doubt of it. The same people who bag Hyde, but admit JON is a fantastic athlete who tackles well, apparently can't even see a tagging role coming JON's way at the very least and him being a significant upgrade on the present. It's comical.

Yes, we know. They're both Aboriginal, and opposites in almost every other way.

Krakouer had freakish football ability and no engine which could bring him into games as much as a senior player should be involved. Krakouer played through an era where specialist forward pockets suddenly ceased to exist, then couldn't develop enough athletic ability - speed or endurance - to be anything but a liability elsewhere.

JON is his complete opposite, a freakish athlete who still has plenty to learn about football, but with time will become so well drilled in what to do with the footy it won't matter. Daniel Cross is the perfect example of an outstanding footballer with ordinary skills and sometimes questionable decision making, but his athleticism, hardness, and the fact he can lay it off to someone else who uses the ball much better makes it largely irrelevant. There's plenty of others who are similar and similarly valuable.

As for the length of time Krakouer spent on the list, Wallace inherited a side where almost nobody was fit enough. Every player delisted before Krakouer had less ability, so it was worth a gamble that with a proper fitness regime for the first time in his career, he could gradually develop the required fitness to be something other than a largely worthless specialist forward pocket.

That gamble failed, but we lost nothing because it's not like we delisted anyone worth keeping in order to take that gamble. Some may throw Rodan into that debate, but he burned his bridges with us and needed a new club. Long term we won't miss him one iota.

Great post, Rayzor.

The thing is, giving out relentless criticism is such a safe position for these people. It essentially reduces their sense of loss - just like betting against your own team i.e. if the young blokes they continually harangue don't make it they have an instant "I told you so" ready and waiting. Yet if they do become a player, they get to enjoy the spoils afforded to all supporters, loyal or otherwise.

I dunno, maybe this sustained bagging is just their own personal coping mechanism in dealing with our lack of success. Even the gradual development of these young players who are the victims of the constant harassment is overlooked by their critics as it is perceived to be an erosion of their own credibility. I guess it's far easier for them to just sustain the criticism.

 

[Infamy]

He may of been a decent junior player yet it is a whole different ball game playing afl, the kid struggles at vfl as well, he should at least dominate that yet he still lacks the smarts at that level. In all honesty I dont see future for the kid in afl football.

Actually he's been regularly in the best pretty much all season at VFL level
Kid even came back on and tried to play the 2nd half of the game when he'd broken his arm. He's a tough bastard for a skinny c___

 

[richoatthedisco]

Why has a thread originating with David Schwartz generating three pages? Schwartz was a hack. Listening to the guy talk. He's lobotimised.

Schwarz (at least do the guy the favour of spelling his name right if you're going to tee off on him) was a GREAT PLAYER. Knee injuries cruelled him, he was magnificent. Agree he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed but the guy could seriously play.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Great post, Rayzor.

The thing is, giving out relentless criticism is such a safe position for these people. It essentially reduces their sense of loss - just like betting against your own team i.e. if the young blokes they continually harangue don't make it they have an instant "I told you so" ready and waiting. Yet if they do become a player, they get to enjoy the spoils afforded to all supporters, loyal or otherwise.

I dunno, maybe this sustained bagging is just their own personal coping mechanism in dealing with our lack of success. Even the gradual development of these young players who are the victims of the constant harassment is overlooked by their critics as it is perceived to be an erosion of their own credibility. I guess it's far easier for them to just sustain the criticism.

Yep, I think you nailed it 100% Ghost, shame they can't see their words in the same light.

 

[Sausage roll]

Daniel Cross is the perfect example of an outstanding footballer with ordinary skills and sometimes questionable decision making

LMAO!

Jon and Daniel Cross? lmao. lmao. lmao.

Because a number of us think the spud can't play we somehow have pyschological disorder or are projecting or something similiar?

Give me a break. It's called an opinion and we are allowed to have it( and it happens to be right!)

By the way, i assume you are conceding you actualy asked a question related to JON???

 

[_RT_]

RT,
Unlike Rayzorwire, more than happy to answer. I am not bagging JON based on stats. They are somehwat meaningless. I am basing my considered judgement on his total lack of match awareness, poor decision making, poor positioning and missed tackles. he simply doesn't know what to do far too often. I don't doubt his toughness or athleticisim but he is so far off the mark in the "unteachables" ( what I mentioned above) of the game.

I haven't seen enough of Gourdis and Putt to comment

So what are you suggesting SR we delist all players who make poor decisions or display a lack of awareness or have poor positioning or miss tackles? Perhaps we should also delist Pattison who makes similar mistakes and has been on the list a year longer than JON.

Come to think of it Pattison looked rather pathetic in his first 2 seasons at the club and was written off by many pundits before the 07 season. However, due to the misfortune of others was given 18 matches plast year and by the end of the year had become a fan favourite because people coule see him becoming a player.

I'm betting most would agree that Pattison still has a long way to go to become a great player for us but he has certainly stepped up from being a player who had people saying he should be delisted to a player who is now a fairly important part of our side, because he was given the opportunity to develop as an AFL player, not a Coburg player.

Those figures I gave you for Gourdis and Putt are the averages for an AA Premiership winning player in their first 3 seasons. Which just highlights the point that not all players step up and star from the very beginning, sometimes players need time to adjust, develop physically and mentally before they come on.

Give JON time at AFL level where he can play at least 6-10 games in succession where he can gain confidence that he belongs there and then make up your mind on the kid. If not then I suggest you get down to the club ASAP, because your ability as a talent spotter is being wasted while you sit on the Richmond board at Big Footy and could be better used at the club itself.

 

[8.8.56 Brother!]

JON to stay in the side this week. At least get some games into him against the lesser sides of the competition. With Carlton, a break, West Coast and Essendon coming up, I think this is a good opportunity for likes of JON and Polo to play consecutive matches in the 1's, whilst not ruining our chances of taking the 4 points in each of those contests.

Should Thursty, Johnson, Jackson all prove their fitness in the coming weeks, and JON not play the kind of football that warrants selection, then sure, drop him back to the 2's. Either way, I would like to see him play a few more on the trot.

As soon as JON gets the confidence to back him self, and start tucking the ball under his skinny little arms and running with it out of the defence I am sure many will start to see where he fits into our side and our gameplan.

 

[lvt06]

Cleve Hughes and JON have played the same amount (round about) of games as each other and up until last week there were threads about Celve Hughes the DUD...Who just happen to come out and kick 6 goals.

But i have this feeling that if JON came out had 30 possies and was voted best on ground he would still be victimised over a couple of mistakes he made.

It drives me crazy there can be so much negativity about this guy who has played 8 games, after two injury interrupted seasons.

Look at Thomas for the WOBBLES he makes some terrible decisons gets run down and so one (before you start saying how good he is and he has proved himself yada yada yada...I no that)...Even our Deledio makes some shockers when he should be kicking.

He will be a good player, i have a feeling about him. He is tough and you can tell that he wants to be playing in the yellow and black.

Go tigers

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Sausage Troll & JON = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I think it's time to stop acknowledging this boring c__t and his posts.......just a sad troll with a one note joke....I could easily do the same routine with Jake King if I wanted to...and be far more justified...but after 20 or so posts I'd start to look like an obssessive arseclown with a personal grudge ..and this d_ckhead must be up to 100...

 

[Sausage roll]

JON to stay in the side this week. At least get some games into him against the lesser sides of the competition. With Carlton, a break, West Coast and Essendon coming up, I think this is a good opportunity for likes of JON and Polo to play consecutive matches in the 1's, whilst not ruining our chances of taking the 4 points in each of those contests.

Should Thursty, Johnson, Jackson all prove their fitness in the coming weeks, and JON not play the kind of football that warrants selection, then sure, drop him back to the 2's. Either way, I would like to see him play a few more on the trot.

As soon as JON gets the confidence to back him self, and start tucking the ball under his skinny little arms and running with it out of the defence I am sure many will start to see where he fits into our side and our gameplan.[/quote]

Yeh, just like krakouer!!

Flogjockeys like mario flogwagon ares simply poor judges with no idea. They simply refuse to look at any downside with a young player and try to deny anyone else having an opinion.

JON can't play and will never be able to

 

[telsor]

They simply refuse to look at any downside with a young player and try to deny anyone else having an opinion.

JON can't play and will never be able to

While you wont look at the upside of JON (and others ) and try to deny anyone else having an opinion.

 

[T4P]

While you wont look at the upside of JON (and others ) and try to deny anyone else having an opinion.

you are all ignorant full stop end topic

we were all saying the same about hughes recently by memory! now look!

time will tell
nothing is certain
optimism > criticism