Patrick Dangerfield vs Marcus Bontempelli

[Mofra]

I think bonts running action makes him appear slower than he actually is, that's not to say he is fast though. His pace along with his breakaway speed and acceleration does is very average. You would never consider him anywhere near elite in this area, definitely nowhere near Dangerfield and definitely slower than Fyfe.

Over the first 10m he was in the bottom 10% at draft camp, but was around the 50% level over 20m.

Shows he is very slow over the first few metres but makes up for it after that. Fortunately being such a smart footballer he's on the move whenever he gets the ball to overcome this deficiency.

 

[conrad_437]

Over the first 10m he was in the bottom 10% at draft camp, but was around the 50% level over 20m.

Shows he is very slow over the first few metres but makes up for it after that. Fortunately being such a smart footballer he's on the move whenever he gets the ball to overcome this deficiency.

Never actually knew that. Incredible that a player that is that slow compared to his peers is now one of the games premier midfielders at the age of 21.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

There are draft profiles and other write ups that refer to his speed or acceleration, so it's not this other worldly claim that you are saying.

I am not sure where you get those, but the below refutes it.

Over the first 10m he was in the bottom 10% at draft camp, but was around the 50% level over 20m.

Shows he is very slow over the first few metres but makes up for it after that. Fortunately being such a smart footballer he's on the move whenever he gets the ball to overcome this deficiency.

Bont creates his own space to compensate for lack of speed.

Is also one of the attributes that improves with experience.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Bont for me due to Danger being much older, not sure the Bont will ever reach Dangers best though, if he does he'll need to keep improving at his current rate for the next few years.

Yep. You'd be mad not to select Bontempelli given the age difference but I find it hard to see him ever coming near Dangerfield's level.

 

[ManOfClay]

Yep. You'd be mad not to select Bontempelli given the age difference but I find it hard to see him ever coming near Dangerfield's level.

You act like Dangerfield is over and above anything we've seen before.

He really isn't that special. It's not like he's Ablett Jnr or even Fyfe level

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

You act like Dangerfield is over and above anything we've seen before.

He really isn't that special. It's not like he's Ablett Jnr or even Fyfe level

That's the thing about opinions... everyone has one.

 

[ManOfClay]

That's the thing about opinions... everyone has one.

Dangerfield is a midfielder who has now won a few awards, that's it.

Go look at what he was doing at 20, the same age Bont was best and fairest of a premiership side.

You can't see Bont reaching Dangerfield's level. Most would consider it disappointing if he only reached Dangerfield's level given he's not that far off now and is half a decade younger.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Dangerfield is a midfielder who has now won a few awards, that's it.

Go look at what he was doing at 20, the same age Bont was best and fairest of a premiership side.

You can't see Bont reaching Dangerfield's level. Most would consider it disappointing if he only reached Dangerfield's level given he's not that far off now and is half a decade younger.

Nope I can't. Don't take offence but Dangerfield is a beast and on another level entirely.

If this thread is any example, it shows just how easy people get carried away with young players bursting onto the scene. That's ok, enjoy.

 

[ManOfClay]

Nope I can't. Don't take offence but Dangerfield is a beast and on another level entirely.

If this thread is any example, it shows just how easy people get carried away with young players bursting onto the scene. That's ok, enjoy.

I guess for you ignorance is bliss.

Bontempelli is a young player who burst onto the scene 12-18 months ago. Now he's the reigning best and fairest of the premiership team and an absolute superstar. He was 20 all season.

Dangerfield is an absolute superstar too, however he has taken quite a while to reach that level.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I guess for you ignorance is bliss.

Bontempelli is a young player who burst onto the scene 12-18 months ago. Now he's the reigning best and fairest of the premiership team and an absolute superstar. He was 20 all season.

Dangerfield is an absolute superstar too, however he has taken quite a while to reach that level.

That's where I disagree and I guess you've proven my point. Bont isn't a superstar... that word is bandied around too often.

Let's see him perform at a high level for longer than a year before we get carried away, eh?

 

[conrad_437]

That's where I disagree and I guess you've proven my point. Bont isn't a superstar... that word is bandied around too often.

Let's see him perform at a high level for longer than a year before we get carried away, eh?

Bontempelli managed a 3rd place in WB B&F when he was 19, and last season managed to finish 4th in the Coaches votes (only got his first vote until round 6 because he had minimal pre season), plus a top 10 finish in the Brownlow (youngest player ever to gather 20+ votes). Also received best and fairest in a premiership year, one of the greatest accolades a player can win.

What is your definition of a superstar?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

What is your definition of a superstar?

More then one reasonably good season for a start.

He could start by winning the Leigh Matthews trophy and playing at a high level consistently for a longer period of time.

Like I said, people tend to get carried away when young players burst into the scene.

A better comparison with Bontempelli would be Pendlebury and Bont has a long way to go to even reach his level of consistent performance.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

More then one reasonably good season for a start.

He could start by winning the Leigh Matthews trophy and playing at a high level consistently for a longer period of time.

Like I said, people tend to get carried away when young players burst into the scene.

A better comparison with Bontempelli would be Pendlebury and Bont has a long way to go to even reach his level of consistent performance.

There is nothing wrong with the consistency from Bont.

What you are looking for is longevity.

Fair enough that a player needs to perform at a higher level for multiple years to be considered a superstar.

Bont is simply a better player at 21 than any of the current players were at the same age.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

There is nothing wrong with the consistency from Bont.

What you are looking for is longevity.

Fair enough that a player needs to perform at a higher level for multiple years to be considered a superstar.

Bont is simply a better player at 21 than any of the current players were at the same age.

of course longevity is required... that's what I actually said.

As for your last part, that's simply wrong too despite being subjective.

 

[Cadillac]

of course longevity is required... that's what I actually said.

As for your last part, that's simply wrong too despite being subjective.

From memory, wasn't Ablett still roaming around on a half forward flank at 20 Years old in 2004 for the Cats? And obviously Dangerfield showed a bit because he was drafted as a 17 year old. But I doubt he was at Bonts level.

FWIW. You're talking about consistency, Bont finished top 20 in the Brownlow in 2015. Western Bulldogs highest vote getter in that year. And he did a terrific job of building on that year in 2016 while missing 85% of the pre season due to offseason hip surgery. Ended up in the top 10 in the Brownlow. All Australian, and Best and Fairest in a Premiership year.
Or we can even go back to his rookie season in 2014. Voted best first year player by his peers and coaches.

That's pretty consistent in my books. Besides Chris Judd name me some players who have had a more consistent start to their careers from the midfield position? The fact that Bont is in the leadership group and has already captained his club speaks volumes about his leadership skills as well.

 

[ManOfClay]

Oh wow a leigh Matthews trophy? You know who else has one of those? Luke Darcy. That didn't make Darcy this beast though.

Dangerfield hasn't even been consistently great enough yet to apparently be on some unreachable level. 2016 was a standout year for him no doubt, but in all seriousness far better players in Fyfe and Ablett Jnr were missing.

He is better than Bontempelli right now, sure, but some other worldly beast Dangerfield is not. Bont should surpass him reasonably quickly as he approaches his prime.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

From memory, wasn't Ablett still roaming around on a half forward flank at 20 Years old in 2004 for the Cats? And obviously Dangerfield showed a bit because he was drafted as a 17 year old. But I doubt he was at Bonts level.

FWIW. You're talking about consistency, Bont finished top 20 in the Brownlow in 2015. Western Bulldogs highest vote getter in that year. And he did a terrific job of building on that year in 2016 while missing 85% of the pre season due to offseason hip surgery. Ended up in the top 10 in the Brownlow. All Australian, and Best and Fairest in a Premiership year.
Or we can even go back to his rookie season in 2014. Voted best first year player by his peers and coaches.

That's pretty consistent in my books. Besides Chris Judd name me some players who have had a more consistent start to their careers from the midfield position? The fact that Bont is in the leadership group and has already captained his club speaks volumes about his leadership skills as well.

You're not quite understanding.

A 'high' level.

And nobody mentioned Jnr or Dangerfield at the same age, but Selwood had a rising star and 2 premierships along with 2 top 5 B&F finishes in a far superior side at the same age.

Also, I cringe when people use the Brownlow as a reference. There couldn't be an award that has as little irrelevance than an umpires adjudicated award. Bartel, Wynd, Liberatore, Woewoedin, Couch and a host of other players whom I wouldn't deem as superstars have won.

I'm not sure why you Bulldogs supporters are getting so antsy at the thought that Bonts isn't yet at superstar level... he simply isn't.

It's a matter of you blokes overreacting and jumping the gun based on a premiership year that if it wasn't for the farce that is the pre-finals bye, you'd have quite possibly bowed out in an elimination final.

 

[BillyW]

Judging by that wouldn't you take Bont because he is five and a half years younger? Already elite, just turned 21. Would you rather have an elite player at the top of their game for 2-3 years or an elite player, about 4-5 years off their peak playing years, for the next 9-10 years?

Pretty sure the purpose of this thread is to pick for right now not sign them to a long term contract........and that's what I based my decision on..

I agree the Bont is elite right now and will get better, I'd be absolutely ecstatic if he were in my side!

 

[ManOfClay]

Truth comes out now. Just another salty geelong supporter upset dogs snagged a flag over their super team.

Lol at downplaying Bontempelli by comparing him to Pendlebury. 2016 aside he's been better than Dangerfield over the journey so it's Nakia jumping the gun over one season.

I'll say again, Dangerfield is not some unreachable legend of the game and it would be disappointing if Bontempelli doesn't surpass him in the next year or so given the respective standards of both players right now.

 

[Cadillac]

You're not quite understanding.

A 'high' level.

And nobody mentioned Jnr or Dangerfield at the same age, but Selwood had a rising star and 2 premierships along with 2 top 5 B&F finishes in a far superior side at the same age.

Also, I cringe when people use the Brownlow as a reference. There couldn't be an award that has as little irrelevance than an umpires adjudicated award. Bartel, Wynd, Liberatore, Woewoedin, Couch and a host of other players whom I wouldn't deem as superstars have won.

I'm not sure why you Bulldogs supporters are getting so antsy at the thought that Bonts isn't yet at superstar level... he simply isn't.

It's a matter of you blokes overreacting and jumping the gun based on a premiership year that if it wasn't for the farce that is the pre-finals bye, you'd have quite possibly bowed out in an elimination final.

You said that you wanted consistency from Bontempelli, so I stated that he finished in the top 20 in the Brownlow the year earlier at 19 years old, to go along with a top 3 Best and Fairest finish in 2015, and a Best and Fairest win in 2016. And then you proceed to talk that down also. So I'm obviously wasting my time trying to prove my point. You have obviously made up your mind.

But to make things clear, nobody is suggesting he's at Dangerfields level right now.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

You said that you wanted consistency from Bontempelli, so I stated that he finished in the top 20 in the Brownlow the year earlier at 19 years old, to go along with a top 3 Best and Fairest finish in 2015, and a Best and Fairest win in 2016. And then you proceed to talk that down also. So I'm obviously wasting my time trying to prove my point. You have obviously made up your mind.

But to make things clear, nobody is suggesting he's at Dangerfields level right now.

I actually said consistency at a high level of performance.

I'm not doubting Bont's ability at all, I'm simply bemused at how young players often get overrated based on one outstanding year performance wise, as your comrade above did by foolishly suggesting I've done Bont a disservice by comparing him to Pendlebury, which is amazing in itself since Bont can't hold a candle to Pendlebury. Given that, I can't take said poster seriously again.

Now just to respond to the salty claim above, I'm a Bulldogs member, I predicted this flag 3 years ago to which all 3 of Dannnnnnnnnn, Igloo and timtamWB can attest, I was mates at school with your games record holder (which incidentally is a perfect example of the word superstar) and my cousin played a dozen or so games for the Dogs. I have a soft spot for the Dogs and was quite happy for 'em.

 

[Cadillac]

I actually said consistency at a high level of performance.

I'm not doubting Bont's ability at all, I'm simply bemused at how young players often get overrated based on one outstanding year performance wise, as your comrade above did by foolishly suggesting I've done Bont a disservice by comparing him to Pendlebury, which is amazing in itself since Bont can't hold a candle to Pendlebury. Given that, I can't take said poster seriously again.

Now just to respond to the salty claim above, I'm a Bulldogs member, I predicted this flag 3 years ago to which all 3 of Dannnnnnnnnn, Igloo and timtamWB can attest, I was mates at school with your games record holder (which incidentally is a perfect example of the word superstar) and my cousin played a dozen or so games for the Dogs. I have a soft spot for the Dogs and was quite happy for 'em.

One thing I think that we can all agree on is that whatever MOC says needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

In regards to Pendlebury, yes Pendles has proven to be one of the most consistent midfielders of this generation. No doubt. But ask any Collingwood supporter, and they will tell you that Bontempelli can do things that Pendlebury can't. If you think Bont can't hold a candle to the current Pendlebury than you really mustn't think much of Bontempelli.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

One thing I think that we can all agree on is that whatever MOC says needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

In regards to Pendlebury, yes Pendles has proven to be one of the most consistent midfielders of this generation. No doubt. But ask any Collingwood supporter, and they will tell you that Bontempelli can do things that Pendlebury can't. If you think Bont can't hold a candle to the current Pendlebury than you really mustn't think much of Bontempelli.

Pendlebury is a champion and has proven himself to be...

Alas, I think you're taking me out of context in regards to Bont. I'm not doubting his ability, simply the superstar tag as it currently stands.

 

[ManOfClay]

Pendlebury is a champion and has proven himself to be...

Alas, I think you're taking me out of context in regards to Bont. I'm not doubting his ability, simply the superstar tag as it currently stands.

And you think he will never reach Dangerfield's level.

Dangerfield's level isn't nearly as high as you make it out to be

 

[conrad_437]

Pretty sure the purpose of this thread is to pick for right now not sign them to a long term contract........and that's what I based my decision on..

I agree the Bont is elite right now and will get better, I'd be absolutely ecstatic if he were in my side!

And if you were to pick right now, you would have Bont for 10+ years and danger for about 5 at most. Why do you think so many people have voted Bont over Dangerfield?