Paying back the 500 million dollars

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Freomaniac

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when was the last time StKilda got COLA or an Academy, 8 Friday night games or looked after like Essendon did after their wooden spoon, you b*tch about our clubs but fail time and again to see how well your club is looked after in comparison! Imagine if Sydney got 36c in the dollar only after 30k people turned up to a game.

I'm over it every discussion turns into "shut down struggling Vic club bs", nevermind that the struggling is also a result of 20 yrs of AFL agenda
Let me guess, you want the AFL to give your club 75-100 millon to turn Moorabbin oval into a 30-35,000 seat stadium and get a similar deal like Geeloing in Kardinia Park where the cats pay dirt cheap rent?
 

Atomboy

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Comment from Mark Ricuitto

'At Adelaide if we do everything right this year we’re going to lose $10 million, and we’ve got people stood down throughout the footy department and in any footy club it’s bloody hard times ....'
Competition needs to get rid of struggling non-Victorian teams...
 

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NoobPie

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For now the AFL and NRL are acting like everything is 100% again, but I am very curious to see how long the money lasts if crowds don't come back anytime soon. I wonder how many months it will be until both codes start getting worried about their finances again. Right now both codes feel like they are fine as they just bought a new credit card to pay off their previous credit card that was maxed out.
Do you care to elaborate on this analogy?

The AFL, and a good chunk of the clubs for that matter, had substantial net assets going in to this thing which is why the AFL were able to get a line of credit at such a low rate

Since then: The AFL and Clubs stood down most of their staff ahead during the lockdown; everyone has taken paycuts; football departments are likely to face $3M cuts to the soft cap going forward (~$60M a year all up); there has apparently been little membership refund requests and most sponsors have stuck

The Australian article says....

With the prospect of a 17-game season and finals, the AFL and its clubs are now unlikely to have to borrow anywhere near the entire $600m, and even having to take on half that figure would be considered a less than ideal result
So fair enough, a second wave and / or no crowds at all next year would be troubling but I suspect your "same / same" take is a massive distance from reality
 

Kwality

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Competition needs to get rid of struggling non-Victorian teams...
To address your comment, werent the Saints $12mil down at 31.10.19 - you might check out the Saints BF board
Let's talk about our debt
Its a very honest look at the club debt, about reality & solving the problem.
 

Atomboy

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To address your comment, werent the Saints $12mil down at 31.10.19 - you might check out the Saints BF board
Let's talk about our debt
Its a very honest look at the club debt, about reality & solving the problem.
Yes I know the situation - it was a flippant statement along the lines of the “get rid of struggling Vic clubs” speil that gets regularly trotted out.
 

mightymouse75

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Gil has said it. There will be 18 teams at the end of this broadcasting agreement.
But the big clubs want tranparency on the broke ass clubs & there could well be structural changes within the afl.
Too many teams holding the league back.
Make your own money or hello vfl.
 

Rich01

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Gil has said it. There will be 18 teams at the end of this broadcasting agreement.
But the big clubs want tranparency on the broke ass clubs & there could well be structural changes within the afl.
Too many teams holding the league back.
Make your own money or hello vfl.
Based on the criteria you listed this is ominous for GWS and GC.
 

Kwality

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Gil has said it. There will be 18 teams at the end of this broadcasting agreement.
But the big clubs want tranparency on the broke ass clubs & there could well be structural changes within the afl.
Too many teams holding the league back.
Make your own money or hello vfl.
Didnt Gil make that survival claim with a timeframe, Nov 1?
The AFL & all the clubs rule a line at Oct 31.
 

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Freomaniac

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Not a chance the GWS or GC are in the gun. It will be the three small Vic teams (i.e. North, St Kilda and Melbourne probably in that order)
I dont see any AFL clubs being knocked off.

Gold coast suns wont die off despite averaging 10-15,000 fans at their home games, Grass roots footy is Doing ok. The QAFL isnt too bad as well. Its not as good as the SANFL, WAFL or TAC cup in producing AFL talent but some people get drafted from the QAFL to an AFL list.


North, Saints and Dogs wont die off as despite them Average around 15-25,000 per docklands game, those 3 are needed to help pay off the Docklands stadium.
 

lumpinee

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I am yet to see this discussed anywhere by anyone. The AFL has taken out a 500 million dollar loan, they have given the money out. That for me is the easy part. The next question becomes, who pays it back and how? Is it actually even possible?

Lets look at the AFL response to all this vs the NRL first and foremost

NRL adopted a quick approach of re negotiating current contracts. They got into a very very ugly war of words with Channel 9 and Fox Sports. The end result however is the NRL received a 7 year deal and a 115 million dollar line of credit that is directly related to that deal as of yesterday.

The AFL however have tied the 500 million dollar loan to absolutely nothing. Just plucked it out of thin air and prayed for the best. It feels like AFL and co are simply lining it up so the fans pay it back if you ask me, whereas in the case of the NRL they went above and beyond to ensure the credit was paid back with current contract arrangements

Are the fans really going to accept the increased ticket prices, increased games to pay this money back? How come unlike V'landy, Gil was too weak to approach the billion dollar businesses invested in it to ask for a direct line of credit?

To me the leadership by the AFL has been non existent and really showed a complete lack of compassion or empathy to anyone who doesnr wear a suit and earns 1 million+ a year. I hope you all have your wallets ready as me and you have a big ass loan that we need to pay back
LOL...yep,sounds like the Government of AFL has fallen for the bait dangled by the Federal Bank who are more than happy to loan the dosh. whilst ubable to wipe the smile off theyre faces no matter how hard they try, the bankers will be sitting back watching The Government of AFL squeeze supporters for every last dollar thay have just as countries like Greece and America for eg do to its citizens when irresponsible borrowing has to be repaid,
 

NoobPie

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I dont see any AFL clubs being knocked off.

Gold coast suns wont die off despite averaging 10-15,000 fans at their home games, Grass roots footy is Doing ok. The QAFL isnt too bad as well. Its not as good as the SANFL, WAFL or TAC cup in producing AFL talent but some people get drafted from the QAFL to an AFL list.


North, Saints and Dogs wont die off as despite them Average around 15-25,000 per docklands game, those 3 are needed to help pay off the Docklands stadium.

I think it is unlikely but possible that at least North and maybe St Kilda are vulnerable...certainly north. Less likely than not but still possible

The contribution of North to paying down the Docklands certainly wouldn't cover anything like the extra distribution they receive from the AFL.

The reason it likely won't happen is because the cultural cost to the game of losing any of the tribes is not worth the "benefits"....but pressure for a Tasmanian team may ultimately come in to play as well

The reason North are more vulnerable than St Kilda is the lack of any distinctive geographical area (like the southern suburbs for the saints) where North are even in the top 5 most supported clubs.
 

Linda Lovelace

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Yeah if I was framing a market, and given one Melbourne club is relegated to perhaps a new VFA or relocated to Tassie I would have:

1-3 North
3-2 St Kilda
10-1 Melbourne
50-1 Bulldogs
10,000-1 Any other club
Yep. Western Melbourne is the fastest growing place in the country, so the Dogs aren't going anywhere. That you would bankroll a speculative western Sydney team because of future growth projections while pissing away an existing team representing an even bigger growth area would make absolutely no sense.

Melbourne's historical importance to the game and MCC ties keeps it safe for the foreseeable future.

As always, Saints and Kangas are the most at risk.
 

mightymouse75

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Saints & kangas have been in the same boat forever.
Cant see how they can change circumstances where they will start contributing financially to the league unless they move.
 

Freomaniac

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I think it is unlikely but possible that at least North and maybe St Kilda are vulnerable...certainly north. Less likely than not but still possible

The contribution of North to paying down the Docklands certainly wouldn't cover anything like the extra distribution they receive from the AFL.

The reason it likely won't happen is because the cultural cost to the game of losing any of the tribes is not worth the "benefits"....but pressure for a Tasmanian team may ultimately come in to play as well.

The reason North are more vulnerable than St Kilda is the lack of any distinctive geographical area (like the southern suburbs for the saints) where North are even in the top 5 most supported clubs.
All Victorian sides have Stand out identities.


North is a weird one because when you think of North Melbourne, you would assumed they represent a lot of the Northern Suburbs or Victoria. Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood are All northern suburb areas. But as you said, North are not in the top 5 of the most supported clubs. Had they won more flags in the 1970s and 1990s and had more onfield success in the 1980s, they might have a fan base as big as geelong. Richmond has had that massive fan base due to constant success in the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s. I have wanted North to play home games at Carltons ground at Princes Park/ Ikon oval. you rather North get 20,000 in a 25,000 seat arena than a 55,000 seat docklands.

Saints have their moorabbin roots. Some of those fans will even tell you if the AFL paid 100 million to turn Moorabbin oval into a similiar Stadium to Geelongs 30-35,000 seat Kardinia Park in Geelong, they would be as good financially as Geelong.

Dogs are from Footscray and have their roots in the western suburbs. they wouldnt mind having Westen/ Whitten oval done up to become AFL standard as well.


As much as I want to Have a Tassie side in the AFL, it wont happen soon. No chance would any Vic Club want to move there. No Vic club would want to Merge with another Vic Club to bring Tassie as the 18th side.

I rather a Canberra side In the AFL before tassie to be honest. Canberras location is good. They dont have to travel far to Victoria or NSW or even SA. Theres 400-450, living in the one city. Back in the Mid 1990s, Canberra was an Aussie rules state. Then Canberra raiders Became decent in the NRL and ACT brumbies got a Australian rugby union side. Canberra has been a stronghold for the NRL and ARU ever since.

I was hoping the A-league put a team in Canberra but that is a totally different story.
 

lumpinee

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I think it is unlikely but possible that at least North and maybe St Kilda are vulnerable...certainly north. Less likely than not but still possible

The contribution of North to paying down the Docklands certainly wouldn't cover anything like the extra distribution they receive from the AFL.

The reason it likely won't happen is because the cultural cost to the game of losing any of the tribes is not worth the "benefits"....but pressure for a Tasmanian team may ultimately come in to play as well

The reason North are more vulnerable than St Kilda is the lack of any distinctive geographical area (like the southern suburbs for the saints) where North are even in the top 5 most supported clubs.
i thought north was 1 of only a handfull of clubs that were debt free ???
 

lumpinee

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Yep. Western Melbourne is the fastest growing place in the country, so the Dogs aren't going anywhere. That you would bankroll a speculative western Sydney team because of future growth projections while pissing away an existing team representing an even bigger growth area would make absolutely no sense.

Melbourne's historical importance to the game and MCC ties keeps it safe for the foreseeable future.

As always, Saints and Kangas are the most at risk.
Dogs should be safe by the proverbial country....another GF appearence and consistent performances over the next 4-5 years should see them attain 60-70k
members if managed correctly,where are they atm ? 50 ? not too bad for 1 flag in 66 years but could be better seeing they have almost the whole western region to themselves
 

Atomboy

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Saints & kangas have been in the same boat forever.
Cant see how they can change circumstances where they will start contributing financially to the league unless they move.
Considering they have paid off the stadium that allows the AFL to bankroll the comp for $500 million I would say that is a pretty ****ing decent contribution.

As for future changes, how about evening up the fixture to share Primetime slots around.

Two openings games for 2020 are North and Bulldogs on Sunday afternoons. Give me a break.
 

Kwality

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All Victorian sides have Stand out identities.


North is a weird one because when you think of North Melbourne, you would assumed they represent a lot of the Northern Suburbs or Victoria. Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood are All northern suburb areas. But as you said, North are not in the top 5 of the most supported clubs. Had they won more flags in the 1970s and 1990s and had more onfield success in the 1980s, they might have a fan base as big as geelong. Richmond has had that massive fan base due to constant success in the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s. I have wanted North to play home games at Carltons ground at Princes Park/ Ikon oval. you rather North get 20,000 in a 25,000 seat arena than a 55,000 seat docklands.

Saints have their moorabbin roots. Some of those fans will even tell you if the AFL paid 100 million to turn Moorabbin oval into a similiar Stadium to Geelongs 30-35,000 seat Kardinia Park in Geelong, they would be as good financially as Geelong.

Dogs are from Footscray and have their roots in the western suburbs. they wouldnt mind having Westen/ Whitten oval done up to become AFL standard as well.


As much as I want to Have a Tassie side in the AFL, it wont happen soon. No chance would any Vic Club want to move there. No Vic club would want to Merge with another Vic Club to bring Tassie as the 18th side.

I rather a Canberra side In the AFL before tassie to be honest. Canberras location is good. They dont have to travel far to Victoria or NSW or even SA. Theres 400-450, living in the one city. Back in the Mid 1990s, Canberra was an Aussie rules state. Then Canberra raiders Became decent in the NRL and ACT brumbies got a Australian rugby union side. Canberra has been a stronghold for the NRL and ARU ever since.

I was hoping the A-league put a team in Canberra but that is a totally different story.
Do Inner suburban based teams really represent growing outer suburbs ?
 

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