Pick 4

[FD2646]

Interesting article by Emma Quayle, in regards to the lack of height in this years draft.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/a-short-draft/2009/09/28/1253989871763.html



Not good news for us there, as we went very small last year. Due to the lack of depth in talls, it would be a big call to overlook Butcher (if Morabito was already gone). Tall forwards will essentially be gone by pick 25, tall defenders will be available in the 3rd and 4th rounds but they'll be speculative. While I think we should be happy with Bradley in regards to rucks...

Also interesting to note that last year only 6 players were invited to the draft camp who were under 180cm...and we drafted 3 of them.

Like hearing your thoughts Chris (when not talking about Hinkley) and I realise you are quoting Ms Quayle, however I don't think it is all doom and gloom. We did pick Clarke who has shown more than most would expect, plus Sibasodo and Sheppard as rookies. Sheppard for mine also showed a bit at various stages in the WAFL. All these guys are 190cm plus or 203 cm in Clarke's case. IF Siba can improve his fitness and both Clarke and Sheppard are locked in the gym the entire pre-season we could be in ok shape. We have developed better tall rookies in my opinion than talls drafted onto the primary list (minus Pav) ie Campbell and Murphy as oppossed to Sandi and Grover - could also be that those rookied just worked harder!

 

[prattsta]

Perfect draft for us would have to Morabito and Black with our first two picks. But for that to happen we might need to get into Black's ear, and get him to under perform at the draft camp...

LOL. How would we approach him exactly? Not sure the 'Hey, if you tank at draft camp we'll pick you up in the second round' speech would cut it when he would've heard the 'Do well and we'll pick you up in the first round' speech from the Bulldogs...

 

[Alfonz]

Midfielders who can kick are the most important players these days, followed by key defenders. If there was a key defender up there in the top handful, then I'd be happy to take him. But there doesn't appear to be anyone who fits that bill apart from making a real stretch with Talia.

Depending on who is available at our second round picks, I wouldn't be unhappy to use our first 2 or 3 picks on midfielder types. I understand we have to address our KPP stocks, but if there aren't any good ones, then there aren't any good ones. No point using first and second rounders on talls unless they are close to the best available at that pick.

I know Pav is not going to play forever, but people seem to forget that if we fix the midfield then we can send one of the best key forwards back where he belongs. I guess a lot depends on what the club thinks of Sibo/Sheppard after having them on the list for a year. We have the likes of Johnson, resting Sandi/Clarke/Bradley to throw down there. Obviously not ideal ... but could suffice with a gun midfield. The backline is the real problem.

 

[Angus McFuttock]

Really? All the ones I've seen have them taking Butcher or Morabito.
I hope they take Butcher leaving us with Mora but this thread was really supposed to be what if they take Mora? Who is the next best for us. If they take Martin that's the same result, we get Morabito.

Maybe I only looked at the half dozen recent PDs in the Phantom Drafts Sub-forum in Drafts and Trading but they pretty much all had Richmond going for Martin.
I watched the U/18s games but i can't distinguish between Martin/Cunnington/Stevens to know where in the top 15-20 they could go.

 

[pinkus maximus]

one of the Richmond posters with some inside knowledge believes that Richmond have decided to take Martin hence the trend on the PD board

For us it's Morabito all the way. Unlike last year I can't see us taking anyone else with this pick

 

[4n20]

Hopefully he is spot on.

 

[silverscope]

one of the Richmond posters with some inside knowledge believes that Richmond have decided to take Martin hence the trend on the PD board

For us it's Morabito all the way. Unlike last year I can't see us taking anyone else with this pick

You never know, we may end up picking Butcher

I'm not going to say to much, as last year i was certain we were going to take Rich.

So this year i'm not putting my foot in my mouth

 

[Belele]

Looks like the Dees have their eyes on Mora as well as the obvious in Scully

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-hope-skips-camp/story-e6frf9jf-1225780862478

Melbourne has already decided to swoop on elite midfielder Tom Scully, from Dandenong, with its first selection and would have been impressed by Trengove's weekend performance.

Together, the pair could be foundations of the Demons' midfield for the next decade as the club looks to rebuild its list.

The other player they are strongly considering is dynamic Peel Thunder midfielder Anthony Morabito.

 

[SupersonicDocker]

Scarlett is probably rated higher by most people than you supersonic, and Mackie isn't too shabby either, unless you are talking tall forwards. But even if you are there are a few factors which are worth considering;

- not a great day weather-wise for tall forwards, so if you get to a grand final without decent tall forwards, and if the weather stays lousy, then perhaps you don't need an elite tall forward.
- Geelong have an incredible midfield, plus strength all over the ground, so maybe if you have the best ever midfield you don't need an elite tall forward, in a similar way to WC's GF.
- Their forward line is probably their weakest area, but Mooney, Johnson, Rooke and probably even Hawkins would be first picked if they were playing in our forward line.

Did you even read my post? Of course I was talking about their forward line. Scarlett would probably be the best full back I have ever seen, perhaps even better than Silvagni so I don't know what your on about with that.

As for your points...

Yes the weather was terrible, but if you recall the last few grand finals you would notice that no tall player has torn the game apart and won a GF for their team... Roughhead, Franklin, Mooney, Hall etc. have all had very quiet or been totally shut out of the matches. There real benefits came when guys like Rioli, Chapman, Johnson were able to swoop on their crumbs and convert... I am not saying we dont need talls, im saying talls are meaningless if you dont have an elite group of mids and smalls getting them the ball and being at their feet. Irrespective of the weather.

Your second point... DIR!!! what do you think i was suggesting

Your third point, yes their forward line is their weakest area, BUT THEY HAVE STILL WON TWO GRAND FINALS WITH IT... why? Ablett/Bartel/Corey/Selwood/Johnson/Chapman/Ling

 

[enoenoeno]

It also seems, although not guaranteed, that it is possible to pick key defenders with later picks... Therefore best available for 1st three picks then KP's

Will be interesting to see how Mora develops over time. I would think we would take him before Butcher, but not Trengrove

 

[SupersonicDocker]

As a small bit of interesting info

John Butcher just ran the 20m sprint in 2.99...Fastest official time was 2.89 i believe

On another note, I think its time the club makes some extremely tough calls to get another pick before our designated second rounder

 

[4n20]

As a small bit of interesting info

John Butcher just ran the 20m sprint in 2.99...Fastest official time was 2.89 i believe

On another note, I think its time the club makes some extremely tough calls to get another pick before our designated second rounder

I wouldnt think there would be a massive difference in time between the fastest and the slowest over 20m.

Where are you getting the results from?

Whatever Freo are doing, they are definitely keeping their cards close to their chest at the moment.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Hi guys.

Just thought I would share with you what I have heard from an football teammate of mine. Who happens to be Gary Rohan's uncle.

It seems Freo, of all the clubs that have spoken to him, have given the strongest indication they would like to take him with pick 4. Don't be surprised if thats who you get. And I certainly would not be dissapointed either.

Of course, alot happens befor draft week, so who really knows, but they are really starting to beleive he is heading west.

(you can beleive me or not, I know what bigfooty is like, but that is the inside info I have at the moment, lol.) Well done if you get him. All premiership sides need a Ranga, and he is even Rangier than Matthew Bate, lol.

 

[silverscope]

Hi guys.

Just thought I would share with you what I have heard from an football teammate of mine. Who happens to be Gary Rohan's uncle.

It seems Freo, of all the clubs that have spoken to him, have given the strongest indication they would like to take him with pick 4. Don't be surprised if thats who you get. And I certainly would not be dissapointed either.

Of course, alot happens befor draft week, so who really knows, but they are really starting to beleive he is heading west.

(you can beleive me or not, I know what bigfooty is like, but that is the inside info I have at the moment, lol.) Well done if you get him. All premiership sides need a Ranga, and he is even Rangier than Matthew Bate, lol.

Thanks for the info buddy, but as i've personally said i'm not getting my heart set on anyone, i'll trust our recruiters to make the right decision.

 

[pinkus maximus]

Hi guys.

Just thought I would share with you what I have heard from an football teammate of mine. Who happens to be Gary Rohan's uncle.

It seems Freo, of all the clubs that have spoken to him, have given the strongest indication they would like to take him with pick 4. Don't be surprised if thats who you get. And I certainly would not be dissapointed either.

Of course, alot happens befor draft week, so who really knows, but they are really starting to beleive he is heading west.

(you can beleive me or not, I know what bigfooty is like, but that is the inside info I have at the moment, lol.) Well done if you get him. All premiership sides need a Ranga, and he is even Rangier than Matthew Bate, lol.

Not doubting your source but it would be a major surprise if we passed on Morabito. Maybe even bigger than us passing on Rich. Unless we think Morbito is going to Richmond?

Thanks for the info and keep us posted if you hear anything more

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Not doubting your source but it would be a major surprise if we passed on Morabito. Maybe even bigger than us passing on Rich. Unless we think Morbito is going to Richmond?

Thanks for the info and keep us posted if you hear anything more

No worries fellas. But even as his uncle said, with the draft camp, and some time to pass between now and the draft, anything can happen. I'll keep my ear out.

 

[theGav56]

Your second point... DIR!!! what do you think i was suggesting

Because of the disrespect in this, I will treat you like an idiot.

Your posts says this;

On another note, Geelong have once again proved that you do not need an elite tall to win a grand final.. You merely need one to take a few good grabs and put in an honest contest when needed. As for the smalls we drafted, wouldn't change it for the world, our team will be a nightmare to control when these guys are up and going

No reference to forwards just to talls; elite talls.

Geelong would not need the best fullback you have ever seen if they did not put a high value on beating very good tall forwards. In fact, despite you not rating Franklin's performance in the GF, his impact was critical to Hawthorn's victory. It changed Geelong's strategy, with Scarlett playing on him, which is not what Geelong like at all. Against St Kilda he played more of the role that they like, especially him not playing on Rewoldt, but on a less capable player who he could play off and create. But Franklin forced Geelong to play Scarlett on him, and losing that impact from the backline cost them dearly.

In fact having 2 elite talls is what forced Geelong to go down that path, blowing your argument right out of the water. It is simply a stupid and shallow analysis of a GF to say that because a forward did not dominate that they are not important. Geelong paid a very high price to get Brad Ottens (two 1st rounders) because he is an elite tall, yes a ruckman, but one who also plays as a forward.

There real benefits came when guys like Rioli, Chapman, Johnson were able to swoop on their crumbs and convert...

Yeah, because the crumbs were just there??? The crumbs are there because an elite forward in Franklin or Roughhead was competing against an elite backman, resulting in the ball coming to ground.

Your second point... DIR!!! what do you think i was suggesting

Well that is a great suggestion; let's get the best midfield ever. Where do you reckon? Bunnings or K Mart? The club has recruited heavily to try and do it in the past, paying over the odds for Headland, Bell, Carr and Black. It does not just happen. It evolves. Some of our recruits look good, but at this stage I cannot seeing them being in another league from what a fair few other teams have/will have. At this stage it is just hope, and nothing more.

Your third point, yes their forward line is their weakest area, BUT THEY HAVE STILL WON TWO GRAND FINALS WITH IT... why? Ablett/Bartel/Corey/Selwood/Johnson/Chapman/Ling

That isn't my third point, it is just what you understood it to be. My point is that despite it being their weakest area they have four forwards who are better than any of ours. Of course Pavlich would get a game in their forward line, but after that we do not have a tall who would be considered. But then again, Pav is elite, so you'd probably trade him for another mid.

And by the way, Geelong lost a Grand Final with the best midfield ever. Why? Because their forwards could not kick straight. If you change say Mooney for Pavlich, GF number 3 right there. Trade Pavlich for Mooney and Corey and Geelong would still have got up.

 

[hedgehog]

one of the Richmond posters with some inside knowledge believes that Richmond have decided to take Martin hence the trend on the PD board

For us it's Morabito all the way. Unlike last year I can't see us taking anyone else with this pick

I'd say Richmond would definitely be interested in him after his first result at draft camp;

9.51am - Dustin Martin stars in the 20m sprint. 2.92, 2.89 and 2.90.

http://blogs.realfooty.com.au/realfooty/archives/2009/09/emma_quayles_dr.html

With that kind of acceleration and arguably the best skills in the draft, as well as being a prolific ball winner with a smart footy brain, he would be almost certain to go top 3. He has no obvious weakness in his game, but also has areas of his game that stand out above the rest. I'd be very happy to see him in purple. In fact, i'm going to make a baseless assumption and say that I would prefer Dustin Martin over anyone at pick 4 bar Trengove and Scully. With Hill, Suban and Martin kicking lace out onto the chest of Pavlich, Ballantyne and Mayne, we have no real need for tall quick matchwinning midfielders...

 

[DCFCFAN84]

I would prefer Martin over Butcher not sure about over Lucas hard to split them IMO however the fact that Lucas is local sways me towards him. Martin's sprint times are pretty impressive as well as his kicking intresting to see Lucas sprint times I heard he came close to breaking Hilly's agility test record can anyone confirm this?

 

[sabre_ac]

Has Morabito been confirmed as a "natural midfielder", someone who is a midfielder first?

I worry because he looks in that inbetween but not really anywhere size...We have a long list of players like this...Who never really fit anywhere or play one role very well...Utilities as they are called is always a dangerous call, give me the natural forward or midfielder everytime.

 

[prattsta]

Has Morabito been confirmed as a "natural midfielder", someone who is a midfielder first?

I worry because he looks in that inbetween but not really anywhere size...We have a long list of players like this...Who never really fit anywhere or play one role very well...Utilities as they are called is always a dangerous call, give me the natural forward or midfielder everytime.

It's hard to say really, he's certainly a footballer as much as he is an athlete which is more important IMO.

He's more of a midfielder than anything else I guess, but given his height and athletic abilities he's played all over the place, forward, midfield and even as a ruckman. Being able to rotate him through Rr, Wing and HF throughout games would be pretty handy.

 

[hedgehog]

I assume your worry has stemed from players such as Thornton, Drum, Mundy, Dodd etc who are all around the 190cm mark but aren't big enough to play as a KPP, and don't have the tank to play on the ball.

Morabito is quite a strong, big-bodied player for his age, and his explosive pace allows him to play up and around the midfield, so there is no real worry there. You've probably heard it before, but his playing style is uncannily like Adam Goodes. He would be wasted playing on the half back flank like Thornton, Dodd & Mundy, and I don't think he played there at all during the Under-18 champs.

I don't know about Morabito being a "natural midfielder", he doesn't really have the body type of a standard midfielder. He would defiently be capable of playing a predominantly midfield role. In fact, I'd say that if we were to draft him, we would have him playing a similar role to what Pav did this year; playing on the ball for most of the game and drifting forward at times.

It will be interesting to see his height measured at draft camp; at the start of the season he was measured at 192cm, the same as Pav.

 

[SupersonicDocker]

Because of the disrespect in this, I will treat you like an idiot.

Your posts says this;



No reference to forwards just to talls; elite talls.

Geelong would not need the best fullback you have ever seen if they did not put a high value on beating very good tall forwards. In fact, despite you not rating Franklin's performance in the GF, his impact was critical to Hawthorn's victory. It changed Geelong's strategy, with Scarlett playing on him, which is not what Geelong like at all. Against St Kilda he played more of the role that they like, especially him not playing on Rewoldt, but on a less capable player who he could play off and create. But Franklin forced Geelong to play Scarlett on him, and losing that impact from the backline cost them dearly.

In fact having 2 elite talls is what forced Geelong to go down that path, blowing your argument right out of the water. It is simply a stupid and shallow analysis of a GF to say that because a forward did not dominate that they are not important. Geelong paid a very high price to get Brad Ottens (two 1st rounders) because he is an elite tall, yes a ruckman, but one who also plays as a forward.



Yeah, because the crumbs were just there??? The crumbs are there because an elite forward in Franklin or Roughhead was competing against an elite backman, resulting in the ball coming to ground.



Well that is a great suggestion; let's get the best midfield ever. Where do you reckon? Bunnings or K Mart? The club has recruited heavily to try and do it in the past, paying over the odds for Headland, Bell, Carr and Black. It does not just happen. It evolves. Some of our recruits look good, but at this stage I cannot seeing them being in another league from what a fair few other teams have/will have. At this stage it is just hope, and nothing more.



That isn't my third point, it is just what you understood it to be. My point is that despite it being their weakest area they have four forwards who are better than any of ours. Of course Pavlich would get a game in their forward line, but after that we do not have a tall who would be considered. But then again, Pav is elite, so you'd probably trade him for another mid.

And by the way, Geelong lost a Grand Final with the best midfield ever. Why? Because their forwards could not kick straight. If you change say Mooney for Pavlich, GF number 3 right there. Trade Pavlich for Mooney and Corey and Geelong would still have got up.

Read my whole first post it was a discussion about tall forwards ala john butcher... Though if you want to cherry pick to manipulate you have done fantastic. The reason I treat your first initial moronic post was for a lack of reading and true insight. None of what you wrote there is a reasonable argument at all.

Do you watch football? Because last time i checked Milburn, Enright, Mackie and Kelly use the ball better than most and have provided more than enough run out of Geelong's backline. This is where your first contradiction starts... Scarlett having to play on Franklin was not what cost them dearly on Grand Final day. It was leaving Dew loose on the half forward line and a few missed opportunities. Franklin's and Roughhead had minimal impact because it was a battle of service from the midfield

Secondly , I never said if a tall doesn't dominate they are not important. Once again you seem to lack to ability to read english and a whole discussion before jumping in and trying to prove something that doesn't exist. I said no matter how good your talls are, if you do not have the midfielders and crumbers around them they become irrelevant. I also said, you can have good talls not elite ones and win a grand final. WHICH IS WHAT GEELONG HAVE JUST DONE? Once again I do not see how you can possibly say and elite tall is more important than an elite midfield.

Find me the last time the team who won a GF didn't have the best midfield at the time?

Oh and on getting the best midfield? Of course I want Fremantle to get the best midfield? Whats wrong with you, or are you just one of those naysayers who likes to cop the flak from your co workers every week because its the only time they talk to you... Find me someone else who doesnt think this club should be trying to get the best possible midfield...

The part in bold is where you truly showed to have no clue. Geelong have four forwards better than any of ours... Yes okay. Good call Google the word Pavlich

 

[Alfonz]

The more I think about it, the more I start to lean towards Martin. The one question seemed to be about his pace, but he has put those questions to rest.

We can't underestimate the ability to be an elite kick. Maybe Morabito is an okay kick, but he doesn't seem to be up to Martin's standards.

Is Martin more of a genuine/natural midfielder than Morabito? It seems to be that way from what I can gather, so that holds some appeal.

 

[dominguez]

Not doubting your source but it would be a major surprise if we passed on Morabito. Maybe even bigger than us passing on Rich. Unless we think Morbito is going to Richmond?

That's what I'm thinking, our recruiters may have their batting order as-

Scully
Morabito
Trengove
Rohan


and will take Morabito if available but if he's gone they'll be happy to take Rohan.