List Mgmt. Pick 9

[HARKER]

It’s on him. He’s got to get fit. I think he was pushed forward because he couldn’t run out of sight on a dark night. Not because of his kicking. Walshy would lap him in a 3 lap race of Optus I reckon. His able to run to defend was non existent. Much has been made of his missed preseason. I saw a lot of preseason last year. He was there every time I went. The claims are exaggerated.

Regardless, I hope he’s run his arse off the past couple of months. He doesn’t need to and won’t become Walsh/LOB level. But Jack S has shown how much better you can get at running if you put your head down.

I’m cheering for him. We need his burst away from stoppages.

That's all fair enough.

I don't see Dow as being a slacker, which is why I have confidence for him, but things can change should opportunities close up.
If for instance we had have acquired Coniglio, what then for Dow? Once you're not in that 4 or 5 preferred-starter midfielder, you have to be able to have more strings to your bow, but I can't see another home for him.

Stocker can play back when needed, as can Petrevski-Seton.
As much as I don't like it Fisher can play forward and so can Setterfield, but what for Dow?

Anyway, he's a good lad and will come through.

 

[windows1]

That's all fair enough.

I don't see Dow as being a slacker, which is why I have confidence for him, but things can change should opportunities close up.
If for instance we had have acquired Coniglio, what then for Dow? Once you're not in that 4 or 5 preferred-starter midfielder, you have to be able to have more strings to your bow, but I can't see another home for him.

Stocker can play back when needed, as can Petrevski-Seton.
As much as I don't like it Fisher can play forward and so can Setterfield, but what for Dow?

Anyway, he's a good lad and will come through.

Agree

Dow isn’t in my best 22 yet. Has to earn his spot back I think. So do LOb, Kennedy, Stocker and Fish. Gibbo has earnt his spot. Newnes will get the start.

Mid 7: Cripps, Murph, Ed, Setters, Martin, Walsh, Newnes
Forward 7: Gibbo, Cunners, CC, MCG, McKay, Betts, Jack S

All injury permitting of course. So I still see Dow starting the year in the VFL.

 

[blue_trinity]

Bontempelli was regarded as a midfielder.
Dangerfield was regarded as a midfielder.
Pendlebury - Not sure as I was out fo football from 2001 - 2008 - Tall agile midfielder.
Fyfe? - Still thin k he's had a little help to get the body he has.
Yeo? Would have to look it up as I don't recall but as I said - Pick the player based on the favoured positions. Don't try and be too clever.

EDIT 1: Just read up on Pendlebury who's described as a tall, agile midfielder.
None of these guys seemed to have been playing HBF'ers to me.

EDIT 2: Hard to find much on Yeo and know he did play in the back-line at times but -

Elliot Yeo
DOB 1/10/93 Ht 189.4 Wt 76

At the Champs he managed only 14 possessions a game and seemed to have a lot of trouble working out where to run to get the ball. He played on the wing mostly, was not damaging and finished with 0 goals for the Champs from 4 games. He looked like he lacked a lot in strength and intensity and struggled to adjust well to the increase in pressure on the ball. He was well beaten by Murdoch I thought in the SA game and Murdoch ran away from him a couple of times causing me to question Yeo’s pace (I didn’t realise at the time that Murdoch was quite as quick as he is – 2.76 in the 20m). My game reviews of him from the Champs were littered with comments like – turns it over, playing behind and concedes the free, centres to a contest, shows speed but does not hold feet, can’t clear the contest.

Bont was certainly playing a role off hb as well as Hf and through the middle

Danger played as much as a fwd as he did through the middle in his u/18 year

Fyfe - not sure what your on about there, weird comment

Pendlebury averaged 17 disposals at the champs playing third tall fwd/midfield

And yeo was a genuine utility in his draft year, played off hb, had stints on the wing where he was abysmal

 

[HARKER]

Bont was certainly playing a role off hb as well as Hf and through the middle
Danger played as much as a fwd as he did through the middle in his u/18 year
Fyfe - not sure what your on about there, weird comment
Pendlebury averaged 17 disposals at the champs playing third tall fwd/midfield
And yeo was a genuine utility in his draft year, played off hb, had stints on the wing where he was abysmal

I didn't watch the Champs prior to 2014, but every Phantom guide I ran my eye over had Bontempelli, Dangerfield and Pendlebury labeled as midfielders, whilst Elliot Yeo played wing in the champs. Fyfe played forward.

Every player has a go here or there but you get a pretty good idea where their best suited positions are to be.
I watched Lukosius play wing in a game in the champs last year - Doesn't make him a wing-man though.

Anyway and as I said - Pick the players based on where they've showed to be their best positions and for every strike you may have for making this into that, you're going to have many more failures.

 

[smashbox gill]

What I believe our midfield needs is a Yeo/Sloane type midfielder and this is why I really want Robertson

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

What I believe our midfield needs is a Yeo/Sloane type midfielder and this is why I really want Robertson

We already have a Yeo/Sloane type midfielder in Stocker, do we not?

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Just watched some footage of Serong for the first time, here's my two cents:

- He is a very good prospect as a forward pocket/half forward. He is clean on the ground and is a great mark for his size, he has keen goal sense, and most importantly applies heaps of defensive pressure, which seems to be important for Teague's gameplan.

- As for his midfield prospects, he has shown in the U/18 champs that he CAN play midfield, however at this stage he hasn't shown any reason as to WHY you would play him there instead of forward. Again, he is clean around the ground, has good hands, applies lots of pressure and loves a tackle, however his kicking is a tad suspect and he's not powerful enough to compensate for his size. Note that this is at THIS STAGE of his career, if he develops into a gun mid I won't be shocked, however I see it as more unlikely than likely at this stage.

- In order for him to take the next step and be a forward/mid threat, he either needs to work on his disposal quite a bit, or just gain a shit ton of strength so he can burst from packs easier. At the moment I can see him being a Tom Papley type player, where he spends most of his time in the forward half, but can pinch hit in the mids if need be.

- In summary, I think Serong is a fine prospect, and although I have a few ahead of him that could be at pick 9, I wouldn't be upset if we pick him since small forward is our biggest need and he has the potential to develop into a strong mid (whereas other small forward prospects such as Weightman and Pickett I don't think will ever spend much time in the midfield).

 

[HARKER]

Just watched some footage of Serong for the first time, here's my two cents:

- He is a very good prospect as a forward pocket/half forward. He is clean on the ground and is a great mark for his size, he has keen goal sense, and most importantly applies heaps of defensive pressure, which seems to be important for Teague's gameplan.

- As for his midfield prospects, he has shown in the U/18 champs that he CAN play midfield, however at this stage he hasn't shown any reason as to WHY you would play him there instead of forward. Again, he is clean around the ground, has good hands, applies lots of pressure and loves a tackle, however his kicking is a tad suspect and he's not powerful enough to compensate for his size. Note that this is at THIS STAGE of his career, if he develops into a gun mid I won't be shocked, however I see it as more unlikely than likely at this stage.

- In order for him to take the next step and be a forward/mid threat, he either needs to work on his disposal quite a bit, or just gain a shit ton of strength so he can burst from packs easier. At the moment I can see him being a Tom Papley type player, where he spends most of his time in the forward half, but can pinch hit in the mids if need be.

- In summary, I think Serong is a fine prospect, and although I have a few ahead of him that could be at pick 9, I wouldn't be upset if we pick him since small forward is our biggest need and he has the potential to develop into a strong mid (whereas other small forward prospects such as Weightman and Pickett I don't think will ever spend much time in the midfield).

Nice summary and is thereabouts to what I see and very much so, in that Teague would like him.
Teague (as the forward coach) didn't have anyone like Serong at his disposal this year and at least to me, seemed somewhat frustrated from early on.

Serong has the combined attributes we could do with; Good pressure player, good mark for his size, tenacious and can kick a goal and if he never becomes a mid-fielder that's perfectly fine also, if we have the mids we want at hand.

Serong would make us immediately better and may not have a Rozee-type influence in his first year, but I feel he would influence.
Having said that though, I feel we'll be pretty happy.........just a little happier should it be Serong or Stephens though.

 

[TerryWallet]

I'm not a stats man, but i'm also not an anti-stats man. They are a helpful guide if nothing else.

It's a bit interesting that of all the main ball winning mids at the Champs, only Rowell and Schoenberg had better kicking efficiency than Robertson. Those 2 went at mid 60's%. Tick for them 2.

The "scrappy" Robertson went at 52.9%, but all of Anderson, Green, Serong, Flanders, D.Stephens and Maginness went lower.

 

[HARKER]

I'm not a stats man, but i'm also not an anti-stats man. They are a helpful guide if nothing else.
It's a bit interesting that of all the main ball winning mids at the Champs, only Rowell and Schoenberg had better kicking efficiency than Robertson. Those 2 went at mid 60's%. Tick for them 2.
The "scrappy" Robertson went at 52.9%, but all of Anderson, Green, Serong, Flanders, D.Stephens and Maginness went lower.

The stats tell you one thing, but what do your eyes tell you TerryWallet ?

Is Robertson a better kick than all those you mentioned?

 

[TerryWallet]

The stats tell you one thing, but what do your eyes tell you TerryWallet ?

Is Robertson a better kick than all those you mentioned?

I think it is in the ballpark Harks. It's not a strength, but i don't think it's a strength of the others either. It's one of the reasons i wasn't a big fan of this crop overall. The Champs weren't a high standard imo.

Rowell deserves top rating in the mids. But after that, i reckon Robertson is the 2nd best mid. Elite drive, elite speed, elite agility, elite leadership. All of those are ratings that absolutely match my eyes.

Robertson is wrongly, imo, described as low ceiling because of his kicking and lack of scoring, but his numbers match, a touch above or a touch below, all the other mids in kicking efficiency and scores/assists.

As much as i'm sorta talking up Robertson, im sorta just as much saying i'm not that rapt with some other high raters.

 

[HARKER]

I think it is in the ballpark Harks. It's not a strength, but i don't think it's a strength of the others either. It's one of the reasons i wasn't a big fan of this crop overall. The Champs weren't a high standard imo.

Rowell deserves top rating in the mids. But after that, i reckon Robertson is the 2nd best mid. Elite drive, elite speed, elite agility, elite leadership. All of those are ratings that absolutely match my eyes.

Robertson is wrongly, imo, described as low ceiling because of his kicking and lack of scoring, but his numbers match, a touch above or a touch below, all the other mids in kicking efficiency and scores/assists.

As much as i'm sorta talking up Robertson, im sorta just as much saying i'm not that rapt with some other high raters.

Good stuff Terry. Thank you.
I also hear you about some of the higher raters.

We know there will be busts in the top twenty for one reason or another.
Not out of the question that as many as half could be busts, as we always drum up players before they get into the system.
To date there are 7 busts in the 2012 top twenty and players Thurlow, Broomhead and Garner could be added to that scrapheap soon enough and then players 21-25 have also departed the AFL, making it a possible (I'd say likely) 15 of the top 25 to be fails.

 

[DangerousD]

Regardless of who we take, they'll probably spend the year in the VFL developing their craft.

What are you basing this off? The top 10 draft picks each year, usually play lots of first team football, Rose at pick 4 or 5 last year won Ports goal kicking, Stephenson at pick 5 kicked 30 odd goals the year before.

 

[DangerousD]

It's not just about the players we took previously as much as for the examples I've given.
It's for the larger illusion purported by many Phantom Drafters as this player can become this sort of player......
I don't care for other clubs but if we're still doing this as a club then we've truly learned very little.

In essence, take a player on the merit they've shown in their position to date and don't dream up too many scenarios where you'll turn this type of player into that type of player and please CFC, do not take a HBF'er with a hero call of making them a midfielder, as for every hit you may have, you'll have way too many misses along the way. It's not worth it.

Kind of like how many clubs and posters thought that Gryan Miers wouldn't be a good pick up, because he couldn't play anywhere other than forward pocket. He went in the 50s if I'm right and is a bloody good player.

Who would have thought though, he blitzed his under 18 years as a small forward and what do you know, he ended up a good one and it looks like he can get touches up the ground after all.

 

[murphster]

Regardless of who we take, they'll probably spend the year in the VFL developing their craft. If we rate Kemp as the best available prospect, we should take him. We're going to have 7-8 players who will be unlucky to miss out on a starting 22 spot next season. We're building enough depth that we don't have to throw these teenagers in the deep end straight away.

There is one consideration that could come into play though. If GWS match the bid for Green, they'll be adding to a glut of high quality inside mids rotting away in the NEAFL. If we're confident we can attract a 3rd year mid next trade period such as Caldwell or Hatley, could that potentially sway our decision to select a more outside running type in Ash, Stephens, or the half forward/mid in Serong?

As you say it is a distinct possibility that one of either Caldwell or Hately get pushed out of GWS in the next couple of years, in terms of purely inside mids in this years draft outside of Green, Robertson and C Stephens most of the others can play outside or different positions, the ones in our range anyway and even CStephens is a 2nd rounder so won’t come into calculations unless we trade down or get a second rounder from someone so really unless we are looking at Robertson I don’t think it will come into the thinking. But I see your reasoning and I would love for us to pick up Caldwell next year as I love him as a player.

 

[DangerousD]

We don’t need another big bodied 3rd tall. We need speed and rebound. Thats why I think there are much better options available which suit our needs

Gould was a sprinter, pretty sure they run fast

 

[DangerousD]

Robertson - not enough of a ceiling for me

I never really understand, the ceiling thing. In the best comp for the under 18s, against all the best players, he was the best, didn't just play well, was better than all before him, he required surgery after the camps, so was carrying an injury.

So im not sure how someone who, when the pressure is on, against the best players, with every recruiter watching and injured, rips the comp a new one, has a low ceiling.

If we get him, i look forward of reminding of this, many times

 

[BluesTragic]

I'm not a stats man, but i'm also not an anti-stats man. They are a helpful guide if nothing else.

It's a bit interesting that of all the main ball winning mids at the Champs, only Rowell and Schoenberg had better kicking efficiency than Robertson. Those 2 went at mid 60's%. Tick for them 2.

The "scrappy" Robertson went at 52.9%, but all of Anderson, Green, Serong, Flanders, D.Stephens and Maginness went lower.

I’m with you TW.....for all the pros and cons attached to these kids, Robertson is my man if the decision is mine....but that said, WTF do I know, I’m only a footy fan like everyone else here.



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[murphster]

The problem I have with Kemp is he may not end up a midfielder. If that’s the case we are very stocked for talls at both ends of the ground.
Forward- Charlie, Harry, gov
Back- weiters, Marchbank, Jones

If he’s seen as a midfielder then I’d take him, otherwise I think there are other players who suit our needs more - ash, Stephens, Robertson, serong

It’s a good point and one that I’m sure we will consider because as you say we are well stocked with this type, we will already have JSOS, Kennedy fighting for the medium forward/midfield role as well as McGovern as a medium forward so if Kemp doesn’t develop his midfield ability which at this stage is no sure thing we will have another medium forward on our list, so based on that I would be passing on Kemp as well in favour of Ash, Stephens, Serong or the one I have really liked but is probably to early to take is Pickett who I would be trying to get an extra pick to grab if he is still there by the late first round which at this stage is looking unlikely.

 

[murphster]

It’s on him. He’s got to get fit. I think he was pushed forward because he couldn’t run out of sight on a dark night. Not because of his kicking. Walshy would lap him in a 3 lap race of Optus I reckon. His able to run to defend was non existent. Much has been made of his missed preseason. I saw a lot of preseason last year. He was there every time I went. The claims are exaggerated.

Regardless, I hope he’s run his arse off the past couple of months. He doesn’t need to and won’t become Walsh/LOB level. But Jack S has shown how much better you can get at running if you put your head down.

I’m cheering for him. We need his burst away from stoppages.

I hope a lot of our players take a good hard look at Jacks pre season last year and the extra running he put in to develop his tank as it payed huge dividends for him this year where he went from a maybe player to a key component of our side.

 

[murphster]

The stats tell you one thing, but what do your eyes tell you TerryWallet ?

Is Robertson a better kick than all those you mentioned?

Plus you have to factor in the number of times they kick which in Robertson’s case wasn’t a lot also the difficulty of the kicks attempted. But in saying that I do like a lot of what Robertson has to offer in terms of his tenaciousness, leadership and his outright ability to find the ball an enormous amount which added to Cripps and Walsh would give us a very determined trio in the guts that all know how to find there own ball and farm it out to our outside players to deliver inside 50, wouldn’t be disappointed at all if we chose him but think there are probably greater needs elsewhere.

 

[TerryWallet]

Plus you have to factor in the number of times they kick which in Robertson’s case wasn’t a lot also the difficulty of the kicks attempted. But in saying that I do like a lot of what Robertson has to offer in terms of his tenaciousness, leadership and his outright ability to find the ball an enormous amount which added to Cripps and Walsh would give us a very determined trio in the guts that all know how to find there own ball and farm it out to our outside players to deliver inside 50, wouldn’t be disappointed at all if we chose him but think there are probably greater needs elsewhere.

Robertson kicked the ball more often than all of Rowell, Anderson, Green, Flanders, Serong, D.Stephens, Maginness, Schoenberg.

It's just that he got a lot of handballs too. So did the others btw, handball as much or more often than kick. But Robertson just got it more. He moves beautifully around the ground from contest to contest.

 

[Benaly28]

There’s always room for another Caleb.

 

[thylacine60]

tea for the tiller man.........

 

[Pafloyul]

I don't get the Henry anticipation. If he's that good, we won't get him.