Pies to go up the guts?

[jonbe54]

As always a mixture of measures implemented as opportunity presents is always better than a single iron clad tactic.

 

[jathanas]

Sorry, I lost you there.




P.s: When does school go back?

I'm not sure I follow. Which school going back to which location? Are schools mobile?

If the point you were trying to make was that my post wasn't clear to you, you replied with something just as obscure to me. Equal then.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

Love the guts, go UP IT.

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

I'm not sure I follow. Which school going back to which location? Are schools mobile?

If the point you were trying to make was that my post wasn't clear to you, you replied with something just as obscure to me. Equal then.

[giggle]
G'day jathanas.
Yeah, a few of our fellow birds of a feathers' posts on this forum are at times a tad snarky.
And sometimes a particular attempt at wit may only half succeed.
On the other hand, there is also a great deal of handy intel provided by the many knowledgeable posters here, so overall, the BigFooty Magpie Forum ledger is still in the black (& white).

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

I'm not even going to bother with this any more man. The fact is you need better skills and it is higher risk to go through the middle than it is to go around the boundary.

Ergo...
Select the players we now have who do in fact possess the requisite foot skills to successfully play up the guts, and let the Smurfs now be the one trick ponies with Mercenary Mick's boundary shtick.

 

[obleex]

The biggest problem last year was that we stopped playing on at all costs, which is something that we did very effectively under MM - guys marked it and wheeled around immediately - that stopped happening.

That to me says that the players were still adjusting to a shift in the game plan and not fully understanding where they need to be or run to yet.

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

That to me says that the players were still adjusting to a shift in the game plan and not fully understanding where they need to be or run to yet.

Which in turn begs the question: How long will it take a talented list such as ours to learn a substantially new style of up-the-guts-as-a-major-play-option game plan?

 

[jathanas]

Which in turn begs the question: How long will it take a talented list such as ours to learn a substantially new style of up-the-guts-as-a-major-play-option game plan?

There's learning and then there's second nature; when the team structures become an instinctive response. It takes a while to get to that stage, and it's not always a gradual transition. Like learning to whistle, one day it just works!

 

[Captivating]

I am hoping we've finally kicked the bad habits and have the confidence to play more attacking football and use the corridor more in 2013.

I think last year we reverted to safety first, which didn't help Cloke and Dawes. Dawes was having a shocker anyway, but the way the ball was delivered only made him look far worse than what he really is.

I've got high expectations for this year. Injuries and brain farts aside, we've got a 'soipoib' list.

 

[Copeland]

My mum told me not to put all my eggs in one basket.

A mixture of both would be perfect.

Yeah I reckon you have to choose the best option at the time. Might depend on who we're playing and how they structure up. Am concerned about our kicking going up the guts though.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Watching the Dawks QF replay on Fox tonight I'm reminded that I reckon the most SINGLE important thing the Pies need to do this year is to be able to fluidly move it from kick-ins, or defense, to the forward line easily. Used to be the best team at that. Whatever option they choose, I hope it works.

 

[rose jam]

Watching the Dawks QF replay on Fox tonight I'm reminded that I reckon the most SINGLE important thing the Pies need to do this year is to be able to fluidly move it from kick-ins, or defense, to the forward line easily. Used to be the best team at that. Whatever option they choose, I hope it works.

We don't have Nathan Buckley from 1996 doing the kick ins anymore

 

[Hva sher a]

I don't get a chance to go to training anymore but do some of the drills heavily focus on decision-making? I ask this because I remember Bucks putting quite an emphasis on it when he was working with Channel 7. (I don't have direct quotes sorry)
In the end, regardless of which route you take to the goals, its all about making the right decisions and ensuring that the players are empowered to do that.
This is a major difference between Mick and Bucks. Mick drilled his players so that they were an efficient machine. Bucks on the other hand probably wants his players to think through situations rather than hammer away incessantly. Hence why we've seen the recruitment of experienced types this year and getting rid of some poor decision-makers like Wellers (even though he is fondly remembered)

Not sure which is the better approach ie the efficient but predictable MM way vs Buck's "hard to counteract but high risk" style.

Of course these are just personal rants/observations based on the thoughts of a keen fan. (although I'd say I know more about footy than Caro)

 

[Optimax]

See he's my issue with this

We got promised the same thing last. What was delivered do you ask? Incredibly slow ball movement, based on the strategy of kicking backwards and across goal when moving the ball from defence (sometimes actually involving taking the ball from half back to the full back!!)

Our gameplan issues aren't a discussion between up the guts or via the boundary...our issues are based around the fact out gameplan was tactically inept (or our players couldn't play it?). We seemingly had no plan to move the ball out from kick outs, we had no set strategy to stop periods of play were the opposition scored consecutive goals (including Richmond, and GWS), we had no effective forward structure to capitalise on cloke, we allowed the ball to clear our forward 50 arc with ease, we consistently got turned inside out putting extreme pressure on our defence in one on one situations.

Absolutely none of that will be fixed with an "up the guts" gameplan (at least not without many many other changes). It's why the nab cup is so important this year, last year we were belted by Melbourne in the preseason and it showed up gameplan issues we never fixed....hopefully we come out with a functional gameplan this year.

 

[Dave06]

See he's my issue with this

We got promised the same thing last. What was delivered do you ask? Incredibly slow ball movement, based on the strategy of kicking backwards and across goal when moving the ball from defence (sometimes actually involving taking the ball from half back to the full back!!)

Our gameplan issues aren't a discussion between up the guts or via the boundary...our issues are based around the fact out gameplan was tactically inept (or our players couldn't play it?). We seemingly had no plan to move the ball out from kick outs, we had no set strategy to stop periods of play were the opposition scored consecutive goals (including Richmond, and GWS), we had no effective forward structure to capitalise on cloke, we allowed the ball to clear our forward 50 arc with ease, we consistently got turned inside out putting extreme pressure on our defence in one on one situations.

Absolutely none of that will be fixed with an "up the guts" gameplan (at least not without many many other changes). It's why the nab cup is so important this year, last year we were belted by Melbourne in the preseason and it showed up gameplan issues we never fixed....hopefully we come out with a functional gameplan this year.

Agree with this in that our players were unable to execute whatever plan we were supposed to be executing.

I can't see Bucks as being a coach without a game plan - he knows and thinks the game better than anyone I've seen play it or hear talk about it.

Hopefully with a more stable team this year & another pre-season under Bucks it will improve quickly. It's hard for any team to have constant ins and outs to key personnel and at the same time adapt as a unit to whatever changes are trying to be made. It has a huge impact on confidence which in turn impacts decision making and execution.

Also, Leon Davis not being around last year can't be understated. I remember hearing at one stage in 2011, I think at around rd 10-12 (or perhaps even later), he was kicking in at 100% efficiency. We need to find someone with a penetrating & accurate kick that can do the kick-ins effectively & consistently. I'm struggling to see who that is at the moment. After what I saw in the NAB cup last year I was hoping that might be Yags, but he's obviously got a long way to go.

IMO whether we go up the middle or the boundary is largely irrelevant, as long as the ball movement is quick and precise.

 

[SteeleBeams]

To be honest, i think altering our game plan will benefit the team. Obviously at first it will be a bit sketchy but once it is executed properly, it will benefit us.

Also, we all know Bucks has wanted to do something to make this HIS team, changing the game plan does that.

 

[Burns2008]

we can go the boundry line if beepbeep MOONEY the road runner is there!

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

We don't have Nathan Buckley from 1996 doing the kick ins anymore

Nor Leon.

 

[soreplums]

We don't have Nathan Buckley from 1996 doing the kick ins anymore

Buckley 2013 if on the list would still be able to do it better than anyone else we currently have at the moment. Hence the interchange cap rule to prevent him from making a comeback as a designated kicker

 

[Dave06]

Buckley 2013 if on the list would still be able to do it better than anyone else we currently have at the moment. Hence the interchange cap rule to prevent him from making a comeback as a designated kicker

This is where I think Yagmoor can contribute significantly to this team. He's still got a long way to go in terms of being up to the intensity of senior football but he has the skills and speed to fill he Leon Davis of 2011 role. Best kick on our list IMO.

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

Like many birds of a feather, I've been musing an' mulling over the "up the guts" issue for awhile now...and a thought occurred: Given that it takes time for players to truly internalize a new game plan, we can assume that the Smurfs are not immune to this fact. Ergo, while we adapt to the more variable and versatile mix of both boundary and corridor play, One Trick Mercenary Mick's new boys will be having their own issues with the Maltliquorhaus boundary shtick - which will most likely make them less flexible and more predictable.
Looking forward to Round 2.

 

[Number 10]

This is where I think Yagmoor can contribute significantly to this team. He's still got a long way to go in terms of being up to the intensity of senior football but he has the skills and speed to fill he Leon Davis of 2011 role. Best kick on our list IMO.

Let's not get carried away now Dave!!

I liked his game on the weekend, and his skills were very good, but not the best in our team - yet.

FWIW I said this last year and will say it again, Fasolo should play back this NAB cup/for the start of the season to test him in this role because he is pretty much our best option. Reid can't do it because he needs to provide a second marking option from that kick and Didak/Thomas who are our other best kicks/decision makers are not even defenders arse holes.

Guys like Seedsman and Yagmoor are well off being best 22 at this moment in time.

I think having Fasolo playing that Leon role would have a higher benefit to the team than having him forward. Our inconsistency back there would leake 5-7 goals per game last year, which I dare say, is more goals than Fasolo would create playing forward. (Plus his drive from the backline would set up plenty of goals in the mean time - and we have Elliot who can take Fasolo's role in the fwd line this year)

It would also teach him to be less selfish (even though he did get better last year).

 

[Gone Critical]

Let's not get carried away now Dave!!

I liked his game on the weekend, and his skills were very good, but not the best in our team - yet.

FWIW I said this last year and will say it again, Fasolo should play back this NAB cup/for the start of the season to test him in this role because he is pretty much our best option. Reid can't do it because he needs to provide a second marking option from that kick and Didak/Thomas who are our other best kicks/decision makers are not even defenders arse holes.

Guys like Seedsman and Yagmoor are well off being best 22 at this moment in time.

I think having Fasolo playing that Leon role would have a higher benefit to the team than having him forward. Our inconsistency back there would leake 5-7 goals per game last year, which I dare say, is more goals than Fasolo would create playing forward. (Plus his drive from the backline would set up plenty of goals in the mean time - and we have Elliot who can take Fasolo's role in the fwd line this year)

It would also teach him to be less selfish (even though he did get better last year).

I think that has merit. Fasalo is clean and a great kick, stong overhead. Could be an attacking HB weapon. Would need to up his defensive mindset

 

[Pied Piper]

Does anyone else think Harry O looked less bulky last weekend than he was last year? I thought he got caught with the ball a bit last year, when running it out. If he has lost a bit of bulk to gain a bit of speed, he could be emblematic of our intent to transition more quickly.

 

[Dave06]

Let's not get carried away now Dave!!

I liked his game on the weekend, and his skills were very good, but not the best in our team - yet.

FWIW I said this last year and will say it again, Fasolo should play back this NAB cup/for the start of the season to test him in this role because he is pretty much our best option. Reid can't do it because he needs to provide a second marking option from that kick and Didak/Thomas who are our other best kicks/decision makers are not even defenders arse holes.

Guys like Seedsman and Yagmoor are well off being best 22 at this moment in time.

I think having Fasolo playing that Leon role would have a higher benefit to the team than having him forward. Our inconsistency back there would leake 5-7 goals per game last year, which I dare say, is more goals than Fasolo would create playing forward. (Plus his drive from the backline would set up plenty of goals in the mean time - and we have Elliot who can take Fasolo's role in the fwd line this year)

It would also teach him to be less selfish (even though he did get better last year).

Who is a better kick than him under 50m on our list? Maybe Didak is as good when he's in form, Pendles is quality but rarely spears the ball in the same way that Yags can.

I'm not getting carried away at all. I'm under no illusions that he has a long way to go before earning his spot but he's got some qualities that could seriously improve our team, particularly in terms of kick-ins and run out of defence.