Play a director...

[The Hitman]

Here's the scenario - You have just been elected to the AFL Commision, and you can change one thing in the game. Anything at all, but only one thing. What would it be and why? What would the concequences be?

For mine, it would be to kick out Freo and to bring back a financial Fitzroy. I know that will anger Freo fans, and it will never happen, but I am sad that a club with such a great history had to die out. I don't care what Brisbane people say, it was a take over...not a merger, and I feel for the Royboys who have lost their club to the north.

It was a sad time in AFL was 1996, with the attempted merger of Hawthorn and Melbourne, and with Fitzroy basically being offered up as a bid, with the Roos, then Brisbane trying to merge with them.

I miss Fitzroy, and I honestly believe Freo should never have been let into the AFL.

For those personal and sentimental reasons I would bring back Fitzroy...it's not logical, it's not my team, but I am not afraid to make this call...

Everyone else...what is the one thing you would change?

 

[Pessimistic]

Install an integrity test for all AFL commissioners and staff. Sack them if they fail it

 

[mantis]

Hitman
I suggest you put on a flame proof suit & hide.

When Sabre reads your post he is not going to be a happy chappy.

 

[The Hitman]

My choice...maybe his is to reverse the ladder so Freo is on top!

No offence to Freo fans...but thats just what i would do

 

[gPhonque]

Well, i'd kick out all the interstate teams, bring South Melbourne back to Melbourne, resurrect Fitzroy, blow up Colonic Stadium, fix up VFL Park, send the 12 teams back to their home grounds, go back to a Final 5, get rid of the 50metre line, erase the word "melee" from the English dictionary (can AFL Commisioners do that..?), and bring back the art of "the king hit" and use it on Wayne Jackson.

Oh, ONE thing......oops......

Well then, just bring back the king hit and use it on Jackson.

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by The Hitman


I don't care what Brisbane people say, it was a take over...not a merger.

.......and with Fitzroy basically being offered up as a bid, with the Roos, then Brisbane trying to merge with them.

Here we go again! What absolute and utter garbage! How would you know what went on?

By the way I have been a Fitzroy member since 1981, a current shareholder of FFC Ltd., a former member of the 'Roys' Coterie which cost $350.00 a year. I was also a member of the 'Southern Lions' in 1995 and a current member of the Fitzroy Foundation and have been since 1995. My father and grandfather also barracked for and supported Fitzroy. It continually amazes me how the supporters of other clubs continually pass ill-informed pronouncements on what they think happened.

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by The Hitman


I miss Fitzroy, and I honestly believe Freo should never have been let into the AFL.

You miss Fitzroy do you? How old were you when they merged in 1996? 11 or 12 years old? Did you even follow them?

I was 35. I think I miss them much more than you do.

 

[gPhonque]

originally posted by Roylion
It continually amazes me how the supporters
of other clubs continually pass ill-informed pronouncements on what they think happened.

It was a takeover.

Just as Melbourne took over University.

Brisbane took Fitzroys name and (a very small group of) their players.

They took the right of the Fitzroy supporters to see their team play at home 11 times a year.

And to rub it in, (and as a cheap attempt to retain supporters), they took their mascot.

That will always be my view of it anyway.

 

[Dan26]

If I was elected to the AFL commission, and I could make some changes I would:

1.) force clubs to wear alternate guernseys when there is a clash of colours

2.)Get rid of the bouncing of the ball after a goal, and around the ground. Throw it up at all times. Umpires are paid to make decisions, they should not be required perform a skill.

3.)Make the finals all knockout. NO DOUBLE CHANCES. Lets face it, under the current system, the top team can be eliminated after one loss in the PF or GF (i.e they don't get a double chance), so why not make it knockout all the way through? Same difff.

4.)Give more recognition to the team that finishes at the head of the ladder, with a trophy presentation after the match in which they seal top spot.

5.)Get rid of the 17,000 series tickets that are given to clubs for the finals. This would allow 37,000 Grand Final tickets to be available for club memebrs instead of 20,000.

6.)Allow AFL members to go to as many games as they want. Why limit it to 30, when virtually no members use up the 30 anyway?

7.)Bring back the Stae of Origin, and play it on a Saturday afternoon, when there are no club games. Make it Victoria vs Rest of Australia so that the best 44 players can all be on the one ground at the same time.

8.)Get rid of the split round.

9.)Keep the 22 round season. As much as I agree 30 rounds is fairer, it is simply not workable in a realistic sense. Sorry.

10.)Stop the idiotic practice of Victorian clubs playing "home" games at non-Victorian venues. The extra money is irrelevant in my opinion because it makes a farce of the draw. Can you imagine the LA Lakers playing a home match against the Boston Celtics in Boston? Surely there must be some other way to make money?

11.)Change the contract that stipulates one final a week must be played at the MCG. If a non-Victorian team finishes in a position where they earn a home final, then they should get a home final.

12.)Get Carlton away from Optus, and make them play at Colonial and the MCG. A club like Carlton with a large supporter base (but not as big as Collingwood and Essendon) would be PERFECT for the 54,000 capacity Colonial stadium. Seven home games at Colonial and four at the MCG would be fantastic. Carlton don't draw crowds at Optus Oval anyway (want me to prove it?)

13.)Have Essendon play all their home matches against other Victorian based clubs at the MCG. Only play non-Victorian sides at Colonial Stadium.

14.) Make the International Rules series against Ireland a best of three. Why limit it to two matches. Play a third match in Perth.

 

[Tonka]

That's easy.

More Grand Final tickets to the members of the competing clubs.

 

[Jamie]

Settle down Roylion!

Poor old Hitman was simply stating that he wished Fitzroy was still in the comp and you criticise him because of his age and compare your loss to his disappointment. Of course it would never be on the same level but don't denigrate and belittle the lad for expressing an opinion!

Hitman is a Hawks man and even if he was a Roys fan and 11at the time, he would have been disappointed. I shudder to think how tearful I would have been if my club had gone through what Fitzroy did when I was 11.

So lay off poor Hitman! All he did was express his dismay at the disappearance of an autonomous Fitzroy and he has copped an absolute beating!

Anyway how do you feel about the Fitzroy/Brisbane merger? What went on?

As for Freo. I believe that Freo will be a success in time. Don't criticise them because of their onfield performances Hitman. As a fellow Hawk we didn't have a great start to our VFL career either! I spent a week in Perth and Fremantle recently and Freo has a real footy culture. Their training ground is the wonderful old South Fremantle Oval and given a bit of success they will be great. They strike me as having the potential to be a real footy 'club' rather than a Buterss style 'business' or 'organisation'.

 

[Jamie]

You are spot on Dan...I'm agreeing with an Essendon supporter...doctor.

 

[sabre_ac]

What is wrong with you victorians???

Fremantle did not DID NOT replacce Fitzroy.They were already in the competition.
If any club replaced Fitzroy it was the Power, in fact if I remeber it correctly the AFL would not let them into the competition before the number of teams at the time was reduced by at least one (Im not 100 percent certain on this fact).

So all you victorians with wipers over the eyes who have problems realising that its a national competition, if you want to take your anger out on a side for the removal of the royals take it out on port.Leave freo out of this beatup, they have no part in it.

Why would you want to removed a financially viable club, that has enormous potential for supporter growth and is only the second team in a state that is nearly half the country.Why would you take out this team that has so much to offer and put back a struggling club.
I cant understand the logic in this.Now I understand that Fitzroy have been around since the dawn of time and they have a much stronger culture down there than freo will ever have .But its a national competition folks and them the brakes.

 

[coxon]

also..

in line with most games in the world..

i'd like to see:

if u knock the ball outta bounds.. the opposing team gets possession of the ball...

no more umpire throw ins...

the only condition would be, that u cannot go for goal on a kick-in.. so, u must pass...

 

[BomberBoy]

Originally posted by Dan25
If I was elected to the AFL commission, and I could make some changes I would:

1.) force clubs to wear alternate guernseys when there is a clash of colours

2.)Get rid of the bouncing of the ball after a goal, and around the ground. Throw it up at all times. Umpires are paid to make decisions, they should not be required perform a skill.

3.)Make the finals all knockout. NO DOUBLE CHANCES. Lets face it, under the current system, the top team can be eliminated after one loss in the PF or GF (i.e they don't get a double chance), so why not make it knockout all the way through? Same difff.

4.)Give more recognition to the team that finishes at the head of the ladder, with a trophy presentation after the match in which they seal top spot.

5.)Get rid of the 17,000 series tickets that are given to clubs for the finals. This would allow 37,000 Grand Final tickets to be available for club memebrs instead of 20,000.

6.)Allow AFL members to go to as many games as they want. Why limit it to 30, when virtually no members use up the 30 anyway?

7.)Bring back the Stae of Origin, and play it on a Saturday afternoon, when there are no club games. Make it Victoria vs Rest of Australia so that the best 44 players can all be on the one ground at the same time.

8.)Get rid of the split round.

9.)Keep the 22 round season. As much as I agree 30 rounds is fairer, it is simply not workable in a realistic sense. Sorry.

10.)Stop the idiotic practice of Victorian clubs playing "home" games at non-Victorian venues. The extra money is irrelevant in my opinion because it makes a farce of the draw. Can you imagine the LA Lakers playing a home match against the Boston Celtics in Boston? Surely there must be some other way to make money?

11.)Change the contract that stipulates one final a week must be played at the MCG. If a non-Victorian team finishes in a position where they earn a home final, then they should get a home final.

12.)Get Carlton away from Optus, and make them play at Colonial and the MCG. A club like Carlton with a large supporter base (but not as big as Collingwood and Essendon) would be PERFECT for the 54,000 capacity Colonial stadium. Seven home games at Colonial and four at the MCG would be fantastic. Carlton don't draw crowds at Optus Oval anyway (want me to prove it?)

13.)Have Essendon play all their home matches against other Victorian based clubs at the MCG. Only play non-Victorian sides at Colonial Stadium.

14.) Make the International Rules series against Ireland a best of three. Why limit it to two matches. Play a third match in Perth.

Dan,

Hitman said you could only change one thing, not 14.

 

[Grendel]

Abolish AFL memberships. All AFL allocated tickets that would otherwise go to them would be redirected to the competing clubs in the GF.

 

[Pornstar]

Originally posted by The Hitman
Here's the scenario - You have just been elected to the AFL Commision, and you can change one thing in the game. Anything at all, but only one thing. What would it be and why? What would the concequences be?

Remove "Doin' the Cazaly" from grand finals!

 

[Mobbs]

Don't listen to what Roylion says ... he puts facts in the story

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Jamie


So lay off poor Hitman! All he did was express his dismay at the disappearance of an autonomous Fitzroy and he has copped an absolute beating!

That wasn't "all he did".

He stated.... I don't care what Brisbane people say, it was a take over...not a merger.

That is plainly incorrect. Where's his facts? Where is gPhonques evidence? If gPhonque wants to ignore the facts, that's his choice. I have already given ample hard concrete evidence of why it was a 'merger' not a 'takeover'. There's is a difference between the two terms you know, although it appears some people have trouble coming to grips with the concept.

Hitman also stated .......and with Fitzroy basically being offered up as a bid, with the Roos, then Brisbane trying to merge with them.

That is also plainly incorrect. The board of Fitzroy Football Club actively sought an equal merger with North Melbourne to form the North Fitzroy Kangaroos. AFL meddling and the appointment of an administrator put paid to that. There is no suggestion that Fitzroy was ever offered up a bid to the Roos, despite the public perception that this might

Brisbane tried to merge with Fitzroy, as did North, as did Hawthorn, as did Geelong...Collingwood....Richmond....Melbourne....even Norwood and Port Adelaide. All of them made fairly substantial offers to Fitzroy in the period between 1994-1996. Any supporter of any of those clubs (apart from North perhaps) who condemn Brisbane for finally succeeding where they failed are just plainly hypocritical. While I haven't personally seen the details of the merger deals from these clubs, Dyson Hore-Lacy has stated to me presonally that most of them were little more than takeover bids, where Fitzroy would get very little representation. I wonder if the "Hawthorn Lions" (yes that it what it was going to be) would have been a takeover or an equal merger. Brisbane and Fitzroy is not a perfect merger but there's a damn sight more representation and acknowledgement of Fitzroy's identity in the Brisbane Lions than what would have occurred had we merged with a Melbourne club, with a history and tradition equal with our own. The Brisbane-Fitzroy union is FAR from a takeover.

I appreciate Hitman's support of Fitzroy. I too wish Fitzroy was back in the AFL competition as a seperate entity. However the fact remains that Fitzroy had to merge and if you look at the detail, the merger that was effected was done on fairly equal terms.

As I said before it amazes me how people who are not Roys or Bears supporters continually offer up their perception of the merger, which is mostly based on erroneus information or just plain ignorance. That's their opinion and they have every right to offer it. However if they offer their opinion, and it's plainly wrong, expect to be criticised. I criticised a couple of Hitman's comments about my club(s). I didn't criticise him personally, other to suggest that I felt more strongly about the Fitzroy's exit from the AFL because of my age and my support of the actual club, than he did.

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by Dan25
If I was elected to the AFL commission, and I could make some changes I would:

1.) force clubs to wear alternate guernseys when there is a clash of colours

2.)Get rid of the bouncing of the ball after a goal, and around the ground. Throw it up at all times. Umpires are paid to make decisions, they should not be required perform a skill.

4.)Give more recognition to the team that finishes at the head of the ladder, with a trophy presentation after the match in which they seal top spot.

5.)Get rid of the 17,000 series tickets that are given to clubs for the finals. This would allow 37,000 Grand Final tickets to be available for club memebrs instead of 20,000.


9.)Keep the 22 round season. As much as I agree 30 rounds is fairer, it is simply not workable in a realistic sense. Sorry.


11.)Change the contract that stipulates one final a week must be played at the MCG. If a non-Victorian team finishes in a position where they earn a home final, then they should get a home final.

12.)Get Carlton away from Optus, and make them play at Colonial and the MCG. A club like Carlton with a large supporter base (but not as big as Collingwood and Essendon) would be PERFECT for the 54,000 capacity Colonial stadium. Seven home games at Colonial and four at the MCG would be fantastic. Carlton don't draw crowds at Optus Oval anyway (want me to prove it?)

13.)Have Essendon play all their home matches against other Victorian based clubs at the MCG. Only play non-Victorian sides at Colonial Stadium.

14.) Make the International Rules series against Ireland a best of three. Why limit it to two matches. Play a third match in Perth.

Dan, some fantastic points, all the ones I agree with I've kept. But I also agree with Grendal, scrap AFL memberships altogether, make all those who currently own it join a club instead. Or instead, change it so you HAVE to nominate a club when joining, and the money goes to the club and you can only attend the Grand Final if your nominated club is competing.

Also, remove the contract clause saying there has to be a final at Colonial, as stupid a rule as having to have one at the MCG the 2nd week.

Re-open Waverley Park.

But guaranteeing the survival of all 16 clubs and ensuring ALL club members are virtually guaranteed access to the Grand Final.

 

[Hawkforce]

As usual, good posts by Roylion.

Hitman don't take his posts too harshly. If you had seen some of the threads from days gone past you would understand that Roylion has had this conversation before - and argued it passionately. Being a young Hawk fan you'd have issues with the manner of Fitzroy's merge, but it is a far more complex issue than "the AFL stitched them up"

I also disagree that Fremantle should go. While they are a joke now, I think they, like Port, are far more "legit" clubs (from a Victorian POV before Crows and Weagles fans get the hump
!) than say, the Crows or Weagles, as they are drawn from a pre-existing "tribal" base.

And Dan,

Amogst many issues I'd take up with your points, I'll just ask one - with regards to Vic teams playing interstate.

What is your solution for such clubs? They compete in a market dominated by three clubs - they get the media coverage; the sponsorship etc etc... How else can they compete other than moving to new sources of sponsorship revenue? Even Richmond, who can lay strong claims to have as much or more support as the others (especially Carlton) are excluded from sponsorship dollars.

It's a national game. Naturally the existing and FOUNDING members of the AFL, are going to go National in search of support.

 

[Blues2001]

Dan, good post, I agree with all except 3,7,8 and 12 - especially 12.

As far as I'm concerned, other supporters can just go and get stuffed as far as trying to move us from our home ground is concerned. Talk about trying to make the league as boring as hell by having only 2 grounds in Melbourne, neither of which are suburban grounds. Besides, we make more money from games at Optus. Why the hell can't we continue to play our home games at OUR home ground?

 

[The Hitman]

Re: Re: Play a director...

Originally posted by Roylion



You miss Fitzroy do you? How old were you when they merged in 1996? 11 or 12 years old? Did you even follow them?

I was 35. I think I miss them much more than you do.

I am not talking as a Hawthorn or Fitzroy fan...I'm talking as a football fan.

Yes, I would hae been 12 at the time...but I was also 12 when Hawthorn was almost taken over by Melbourne, and I was at the Camberwell Civic Centre when that anti-merger meeting was held. I remember the last game Fitzroy won was against Freo, because I was at my god mothers wedding that night, and I was happy because I felt sorry for them.

I know you have followed them, and are older, and would be hurt more then me at the merger, but who are you to tell me if I miss them or not? Do you know my feelings?

I wouldn't have chosen that as the thing I would change unless I meant it...and I do. I may be young, I may barrack for a different team, but I am a football fan...and I miss Fitzroy.

The Hitman

 

[Blues2001]

Re: Re: Re: Play a director...

Originally posted by The Hitman


I wouldn't have chosen that as the thing I would change unless I meant it...and I do. I may be young, I may barrack for a different team, but I am a football fan...and I miss Fitzroy.

The Hitman

Well said hitman. You made some very good points roylion, but you did patronize hitman a little regarding his age etc...

 

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Roylion


That wasn't "all he did".

He stated.... I don't care what Brisbane people say, it was a take over...not a merger.

That is plainly incorrect. Where's his facts? Where is gPhonques evidence? If gPhonque wants to ignore the facts, that's his choice. I have already given ample hard concrete evidence of why it was a 'merger' not a 'takeover'. There's is a difference between the two terms you know, although it appears some people have trouble coming to grips with the concept.

Hitman also stated .......and with Fitzroy basically being offered up as a bid, with the Roos, then Brisbane trying to merge with them.

That is also plainly incorrect. The board of Fitzroy Football Club actively sought an equal merger with North Melbourne to form the North Fitzroy Kangaroos. AFL meddling and the appointment of an administrator put paid to that. There is no suggestion that Fitzroy was ever offered up a bid to the Roos, despite the public perception that this might

Brisbane tried to merge with Fitzroy, as did North, as did Hawthorn, as did Geelong...Collingwood....Richmond....Melbourne....even Norwood and Port Adelaide. All of them made fairly substantial offers to Fitzroy in the period between 1994-1996. Any supporter of any of those clubs (apart from North perhaps) who condemn Brisbane for finally succeeding where they failed are just plainly hypocritical. While I haven't personally seen the details of the merger deals from these clubs, Dyson Hore-Lacy has stated to me presonally that most of them were little more than takeover bids, where Fitzroy would get very little representation. I wonder if the "Hawthorn Lions" (yes that it what it was going to be) would have been a takeover or an equal merger. Brisbane and Fitzroy is not a perfect merger but there's a damn sight more representation and acknowledgement of Fitzroy's identity in the Brisbane Lions than what would have occurred had we merged with a Melbourne club, with a history and tradition equal with our own. The Brisbane-Fitzroy union is FAR from a takeover.

If they didn't merge in 1996, they would have died. That's an undeniable fact. Hell, they almost disappeared midseason. There were meetings in which clubs put forward proposals to merge with Fitzroy. The Roo's came close, as probably did many clubs. Those facts I do not know. But I do know it was on the 11th hour that Brisbane and Fitzroy did the deal to merge. Brisbane saved any semblance of Fitzroy being in the AFL, and while you are an old Lion, and I guess you support Brisbane now, you would be in denial if you didn't accept these facts. Brisbane took over Fitzroy. It was a move to provide Fitzroy fans with someone to support in the afterlife so to speak.

You ask where are the facts that it was a takeover. Well, where are that it wasn't? What suggests that apart from the name, the song, and a gold lion on the jumper, that Fitzroy lives in Brisbane?

I know they have a social club in Bulleen, and have a supporter base down here, but in my mind, Chris Johnson is the only link left...

Prove me wrong, and do it via a PM, so we don't drag others into it...

The Hitman

P.S. Sabre, I know Freo didn't replace Fitzroy,but it was the one change I would make, and if you look to my first post, you will see that I said it wasn't logical...it was a sentimental choice.