Player Review vs WCE

[CasuallyDressed]

Seeds reminds me of Bob Murphy when Murphy was at his best.

The Seed might have a bit more speed though.

 

[Gone Critical]

Seeds reminds me of Bob Murphy when Murphy was at his best.

The Seed might have a bit more speed though.

If he can be that good it would be massive

 

[Snoop Dog]

yeah I am still a bit unsure about Harry best spot.

i like the pressure he applies and his ability to run offensively and break lines but if you make him a ball carrier you have to be confident he can execute and hit targets. Unfortunately his foot skills have never been elite and they havent proven to be all that good in his first few 3 NAB hit outs. If that ball turns over in the middle or HB we will be in real trouble.

 

[sr36]

I think people are confusing Krakouers lack of pace for lack of defensive ability and application. Both of which are excellent. Certainly we need pace but we need class as well. It's about balance. My feeling is Sinclairs and Fasolos positions in the side are at risk to Elliot.

Krak's defensive ability and application is good in the contest. But the issue is that he doesn't have the pace to perform the harrassment role that is central to the press. Don't get me wrong, I love Krak and want to see him every week because he's just so good to watch. I just think that there is a distinct possibility that his lack of pace may cost him a place in the side, unless he can get his fitness up to a level where he can spend significant time in the midfield.

Elliot appears to have gone well past Sinclair. He has just looked the real deal.

 

[drummoyne]

Over 40 hours since the game and my rager for Seedsman is still ahh... err... raging?

 

[Scodog10]

Seeds reminds me of Bob Murphy when Murphy was at his best.

The Seed might have a bit more speed though.

That's exactly what I think every time I see him run around. I'd also add that I don't think he has the forward ability of Murphy, but everything else is spot on!

 

[CasuallyDressed]

I don't know. He seems to be quite a capable finisher.

I love the Seed. I think he's a 200 game player for us. I really hope he breaks into the side over say Harry O, Russell or Johno even though I do love Johno.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

On a side note.

Sharrod Wellingham's hair deserves some terrible criticism.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

On a side note.

Sharrod Wellingham's hair deserves some terrible criticism.

I wouldn't argue with that, it was disappointing. I think the signs were there last season that Sharrod was spending a little too much time grooming to be really focussed. Glad that now its the Eagles problem.

I didn't check into the haircut thread and don't mean to sidetrack this one but wasn't it great to see a neater, cleaner Pendles on the weekend? Conversely, I reckon Daisy should grow back his locks, his form has never been the same since he shaved them off. Really, I think this aspect of players' form is under-estimated.

 

[KJpie]

Shaw starts every season like a freight train and by about round 8 is looking like a certain all Australian - then he always sems to find a way to lose the plot. Hopefully things change this year and he remains on track.

Yep agreed 36, we can only hope!

It's a case of does a leopard change his spots or will he finally grow up and become the leader he could and should be over the course of the year; Title or not!

 

[KJpie]

There is zero chance that Shaw would get the captaincy in front of Pendles. I doubt Shaw even wants it. Has he even ever been part of the leadership group? Shaw's attitude and play has been the same way for years, this is not an unusual year for Shaw.

Pendles has been vice captain for years, captained the side for games at a time, openly covets the captaincy when Maxwell hands it over, and is our most accomplished player. And doesn't F**k around at every single opportunity....

If there is any doubt as to whether Pendles will be captain in 2014, it must be directed at either the incumbent (Maxwell), or the chance that Ball will take it on for a few years (very slim chance of this in my opinion).

Agreed JB,

Pendle's clearly at this stage is Captain in 2014 if Maxi does not get the gig again. I may have had one beer to many Re: captaincy for Shaw.

Agree with Ball to; his time has passed.

Whilst you are more than likely right about Shaw not being in the current leadership group I was sure he had been prior.

As stated "I have been critical of Shaw in the past" and frankly it is disappointing that at his age and with his talent he is not a permanent member of the leadership group.

I simply saw some signs that he may "finally" be turning the corner, if so the team will be all the better for it. We can only hope!

 

[KJpie]

I think people are confusing Krakouers lack of pace for lack of defensive ability and application. Both of which are excellent. Certainly we need pace but we need class as well. It's about balance. My feeling is Sinclairs and Fasolos positions in the side are at risk to Elliot.

No Problem's Quicky with his "defensive ability and application".

Not sure he has once again come back in peak fitness especially after a full preseason, may need to get some match fitness in the VFL and if not possible in the NAB cup prior to round one?

As for "It's about balance". Agree that's it in a nutshell.

Does he hurt the opposition on the scoreboard more or does the opposition create more scoring opportunities from running off him, will he be played on the bigger grounds? Regardless it is great to see new options available and the kids standing up when given the chance.

 

[KJpie]

Krak's defensive ability and application is good in the contest. But the issue is that he doesn't have the pace to perform the harrassment role that is central to the press. Don't get me wrong, I love Krak and want to see him every week because he's just so good to watch. I just think that there is a distinct possibility that his lack of pace may cost him a place in the side, unless he can get his fitness up to a level where he can spend significant time in the midfield.

Elliot appears to have gone well past Sinclair. He has just looked the real deal.

Loved it all bar the Sinclair statement 36.

 

[KJpie]

He made a huge impact in the tail end of the 2012 season coming off a knee reco and having no barely any match fitness at all. Hes done a full preseason and though something looked not quite right a couple of weeks ago

The issue for me is he seemed fitter after the reco, as well as a few games in the VFL late last year than he did after a full preseason leading into this year including a trip to altitude.

IMO, he is not the best on the training track and generates the majority of his fitness thru game time.

 

[rand corp]

Really, really liked the games of some of the newer players:

Seedsman
Frost
Thomas
Elliot
Mooney

Seedsman

Skills, composure, confidence really looks a promising player and one of our best on the weekend

Elliot

Fantastic forward pressure, chase and tackling, very good overhead, very good one on one, lot to like

Mooney

Very good pressure and chase in the forward 50 and managed a couple of goals, promising

Frost

Ok he’s a big kid in his first couple of games and he is going to make a few mistakes, playing as a KP defender they are going to stand out like dogs testies BUT, you look at the number of effective spoils he was able to make, and the times he managed to win his own ball, the times he hit a contest hard, laid a tackle, harassed and did give it off to a target and there was a heck of a lot to like. Given the susceptibility of Reid to pick up knocks, the ongoing doubt about Brown’s fitness I think this kid should and will win elevation.

Josh Thomas

Ok did do a heck of a lot but geez I can now finally see why we persisted, looks like a Rolls Royce inside mid, just look at the way he managed to move the ball around in some really tight situations and I was very impressed. Obviously more signs that promise at this stage but I’ll look forward to keeping an eye on him. In terms of looks he could be Elliot’s twin brother by the way.

 

[Knightmare]

Pretty much agree with all you wrote but this. we have a very good midfield. We will be playing Thomas on one wing as a certainty IMO. It is his best position and we have Pendlebury, Swan & Ball as the 3 best square starters with Beams next in line and Sidebottom as as the next running player option. There are still a nomber of players better suited to the wing than O'Brien who far too often creates trouble. when he does something well he looks very good but he buys trouble for himself and the palyer he has to quickly offload to far to often. He has to play back and even then he ahs to go back to the basics that madehim effective in 2010. Attack only when the opportunity presents adn don't try and invent attack when a give of will release another runner.

When you play a back as a winger because he isn't defending well you are in trouble. Thankfully we have half a dozen players better suited to the wing. Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Didak, Seedman & Young just for starters and if we want to move a back to the wing to squeeze someone in down back I'd say Shaw is the best option but Toovey could be a good defensive winger if we want to shut down someone.

It will be interesting to see how that midfield rotation works. Particularly with those more outside types. On the wings I would be looking to start Harry (with Seedsman his direct replacement down back) in addition to Thomas and Sidebottom. To fit the three we're probably looking at Sidebottom and Thomas rotating forward as required or even into the centre with Harry rotating back as required.

I see Harry as a really unique wingman. We haven't really seen one like him before with his unique pressure game, power and straight line running game but I do like it in the mix and I don't necessarily see the need for any of our midfielders to miss out.

There often is in sports a perception where if something hasn't been done before that it can't be done. In basketball this was Magic Johnson a 6'8 point guard - before him there was a perception that he was too tall. In football this could be a 200cm pure midfielder - if one came along in a couple of years time there would be plenty saying "it can't be done" but once one guy does it then everyone will want one and I'd put Harry into this basket where on a wing it may feel slightly unorthodox and it may not work, but it if does it could work out very well and really give the team a unique edge which may just have a major influence on winning.

On a wing I expect Harry will defend very well. Defensive running and being accountable is not at all an issue with Harry. His sole weakness in a defensive sense is his big turning circle and lack of agility. When isolated deep in defense against those evasive, slippery smalls that's the time he gets exposed. Otherwise he is very capable of going with anyone else. On a wing because it's more only defensive running it shouldn't be an issue because it's more a straightline running position.
My main reservations with Harry are more in traffic and in the contest. Will he get lost? And how good is he in close? As well the quality of his delivery by foot to the forwards - because typically he is known to blast away as opposed to lowering his eyes looking for those short-medium targets (though better in this regard last year than previously).
In listing these reservations I still want to see it. He's a guy you want to be able to find a position for. He has his flaws but I'm open to seeing us try a few different things with him and give him that opportunity to find a position better suited to his talents if there is indeed one.

What a delightful conundrum to have (the forward options) following a season where our forward line had become so limited and toothless - our percentage last year was a worry.

KM - well done. You called early and decisively on Seedsman. Obviosly he's not there yet but early signs are promising. I certainly didn't rate him massively on what I'd seen.

So promising to see Elliot developing into a stronger bodied, natural footballer. I love natural footballers whatever their size or shape (Blair is another one). Hopefully in 12 months time we will be able to class Blair, Elliot and Seedy all as 'Hine Specials.'

I have been a big Krak fan and love his danger factor in the forward fifty. But his current conditioning is a concern. From the photos I've seen he is clearly not fit. The real positive with our current depth is that a lot of our players who have got games on rep. including some fairly recent additions like Fas, will realise very quickly that if they dish up anything insipid they'll be playing at Vic Park in a hurry. This is a much, much better scenario for us than last year. I am loving the depth set up (and praying to avoid another injury epidemic).

The forward line against the Weagles felt very 2010 with fast swarming defensive forwards closing down opposition space and time. If this is maintained it would be a great improvement on last season. I felt our opponents had way too much latitude to repel from our fifty last year and it really hurt us.

The forwardline is looking much stronger than last year. Dawes who couldn't take a mark for find a goal has been replaced by someone who will take those grabs and while relatively uninaccurate by position is more of a scoring threat. Add to that the natural improvement of those young forwards and a healthy Macaffer and Krakouer and that forward mix is looking much more potent this year after it being a real weak point in 2012.

I'm likely in the minority but with Krakouer I liked what he was doing late 2012 more than what I've seen so far this season. In the finals he didn't find as much of the footy as many would have liked but I really valued what he did when he had ball in hand with that ability he has to create space with ball in hand. This year he just looks a step slower and less switched on than expected. Still more footy to be played so he does still have time to turn things around but I do also have some concerns about where he is at and whether he is as far progressed as he perhaps should be at this point.

I did also like the feel defensively against the Eagles. There was this real perceived pressure which really rushed West Coast more than expected. It really starting with the unlikely hero Caolan Mooney who while he had his kicking difficulties on the night to put it politely was absolutely exceptional with his tackling and pressuring. Add to that Harry on a wing who provided a unique angle to the pressuring pressing up the field and it was a very pressure friendly lineup with Sinclair and Elliott also by position excellent tacklers and pressure forwards. Here's hoping it can be kept up for the whole season.

My biggest question at the moment is where the hell are we going to play Dale Thomas??? I am not sure he is needed in the midfield or is even in our best midfield anymore - particularly if Sidebottom steps it up. Is he going to become the highest paid half forward in the competition? This seems a waste given the queue for small forwards is a long one. I would entertain the idea of having him in the "Goddard" quarterback role to help out Shaw & give us some more agressive rebound. Beating the oppositions defensive transition has become the new key to scoring these days. DT is a hard runner and a genuine line breaker who can link up our ball movement.

It's an interesting one. I'm expecting a large midfield rotation. Blair/Sidebottom/Ball/Beams/Swan and even Pendlebury probably also gets rotated forward so we may just look to rotate our midfielders through the forwardline strategically. Thomas included when healthy.

The issue with Thomas is that as a forward he is poor. He can take some freak marks in the air, provide tackling pressure and finish for some freak goals but the issue with Thomas the forward is that he just doesn't find the footy. If playing as a forward he won't find enough of it or kick enough goals to be worth playing there every week.

In the Goddard quarterback role Thomas is interesting. He has pace though I haven't seen that linebreaking as recently or at least certainly not last year. I'm also not sure his footskills are up to a level that will do the required damage. I'd probably look at Seedsman for that quarterback role first if we decided to look at someone to play a role of this variety.

I tend to like Thomas more as a defensive midfielder first. It really suits his style of tackling game with those chasedown tackles through the midfield and ability to play a good accountable brand of football as well as win some of his own ball which has improved in recent years. But to accomodate this deep midfield as mentioned earlier it likely means Thomas as with the others also plays some minutes forward even if it's not where he is best utilised.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I think Thomas would be a terrific contributor in the quarterback type role (more like the Davis role, rather than a Goddard role), and have been saying this for a while. I think he has all the tools required in that role. I really would have liked to see him tried in this role a bot more, but Bucks and the coaching staff obviously disagree...

 

[cfx_1]

Harry's game yesterday had me cursing at the screen. I see what they are trying to do, I just think he is fighting a losing battle. He was leaking goals as a small defender and as a rebounding defender there are now better options. Pushed up to the wing, it would seem that he is merely depth. If he gets a game ahead of Young based on that performance I would be very surprised.

Seedsman. Just made his way into my DT team. I think that performance against a clear top 4 contender this year screams BREAKOUT. That run through the middle and kick to the forward line was just beautiful - I haven't seen a Collingwood player do that in a while.

As for the forwards scenario - it is a good problem to have a plethora of small forwards capable of senior footy. If we had 2, at this stage I would say Macaffer and Elliot are in front. Kraks just behind but only because we haven't seen him light it up yet. Sinclair on the improve and Mooney too which is great for the team.

 

[Go_Brad_Dick]

I didn't check into the haircut thread and don't mean to sidetrack this one but wasn't it great to see a neater, cleaner Pendles on the weekend? Conversely, I reckon Daisy should grow back his locks, his form has never been the same since he shaved them off. Really, I think this aspect of players' form is under-estimated.

So true! He's a show pony, he excels when the limelight is on him, the more he stands out the better he will play. Needs some Fluoro boots or something..

 

[Quicky]

Krak's defensive ability and application is good in the contest. But the issue is that he doesn't have the pace to perform the harrassment role that is central to the press. Don't get me wrong, I love Krak and want to see him every week because he's just so good to watch. I just think that there is a distinct possibility that his lack of pace may cost him a place in the side, unless he can get his fitness up to a level where he can spend significant time in the midfield.

Elliot appears to have gone well past Sinclair. He has just looked the real deal.

I think as a minimum we can still include a small that isn't pacy, arguably more, and still implement an effective press. I'd count Krakouer, Didak, Fasolo, Sidebottom and Blair as our regular one paced smalls. Of those guys, for the dedicated small forward role I would have Krakouer at the very top of the list selected.

One thing that Krakouer has over all those players, although Sidebottom is very good in this area, is that he can actually crumb. None of Elliott, Sinclair or Mooney have shown an ability to do this. You have too many of those guys and the balance swings in the wrong direction. Ideally we have a mix of both. That's what I mean by balance.

For round 1, if Krakouer isn't fit you don't select him. But thats a different debate than whether he is best 22 if fit.

 

[blaze036]

In a few years Mooney will be something special.

Just needs to get use to the AFL pace and work on his game understanding

 

[Stripes B and W]

Re the, smaller bodied porward options, i see them as having different and possibly complimentary strengths.

Each of krak, Elliot and Sinclair can give the forward pressure we all love to see and think is a necassary part of maximum success in 2013. Sinclair i see as winning crumbs and ground ball, Elliot much more of a marking option, in fact he is can be a marking target, and a hugely difficult match up. Neither are naturally good converters, which can be really deflating for the side, but hpefully both can improve in this area.
Krak has that wonderful attribute of being a goal kicker with minumum touches

Great selection dilema when you factor in Dids, Fasolo and Mooney also about.

Re Thomas in the quaterback role, along the lines of perhaps a Davis rather than a Goddard. His ability to distribute the ball is only average, success in this role requires elite disposal, all other bases he ticks.

 

[The Average Tourist]

Is it just me or is seedsman very pendles like?

Light build but can step and can use it
I have thought the same but never actually said it
can we raise this thought in five years time

 

[The Average Tourist]

On a side note.

Sharrod Wellingham's hair deserves some terrible criticism.

Yes it does

 

[Markfs]

Obrien - trade. Sick of his headless chook running into trouble and over doing everything. Get rid of the thinking chair and go back to basics or make way.

I've been wondering for while why so many Collingwood "supporters" hate Harry. I thought it was the zen buddhism and the dali lama stuff but now I realise it's the thinking chair stuff. It's easy to see why someone who likes thinking is going to have a popularity problem in the forum....