Player training comments

[FredNerk69]

Has anybody else noticed that in almost every player interview they have something positive to say about Davoren. They all seem to be really enjoying the training even the new guys who would not have had much time if any with Buttifant.
I'm holding a massive 4x4 when I say this but our injuries are also the best they have been for a long time. Personally I'm thinking that Buttifants reputation was partly earned but also partly over the top promotion by his best mate Matlhouse. Our best fitness year when we won the flag was due to using the interchange bench effectively and not necessarily great job by the fitness coach. The other major benefit which was the trips to Arizona is debatable with many clubs opting against it. He has been living of these tactics which don't necessarily show you are a great fitness coach.
Personally I think Davoren could make a big difference to our form and injury list this year.

Also very happy that Buttifant is now looking after Thomas. Good chance he will break down again.

 

[Woods List Clogger]

You could be onto something.

 

[blaze036]

Davoran has been there for a handful of weeks so you can't attribute anything to him at the moment, far too early to tell if he is going to get our injury toll heading in the right direction.

The players don't really have any option but to say positive things when asked about the new fitness coach. Think you are drawing a long bow with such a small sample size and generic player responses.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Buttifants reputation was partly earned ...

Buttifant's credentials (associate professor from memory, but there was definitely a PhD amongst them) are earned by peer review ... and those peers are from in the sports science field (not AFL coach buddies).

For example, there is daylight between Buttifant's credentials and Dank's credentials - it's an insult to Buttifant that they even share the same industry.

...but also partly over the top promotion by his best mate Matlhouse. Our best fitness year when we won the flag was due to using the interchange bench effectively and not necessarily great job by the fitness coach.

It is Buttifant who is credited with coming up with the bench rotation scheme.

The other major benefit which was the trips to Arizona is debatable with many clubs opting against it.

As I type this I'm actually sitting in a diner having lunch about 10 miles from Flagstaff where our team used to go for altitude training.

Anyway, where I'm staying at the moment is only at about 1600m and - whilst I'm far from being an elite athlete - I can definitely feel the effects of altitude training and being here has given me an appreciation for how it can work. I'll write more about that another time.

 

[piesaregreat]

Buttifant did a great job for us for many years
To now claim he was overrated is absurd
You can try to rewrite history but everyone concerned with 2010 players, coaches etc have always rated and respected Buttifant.

 

[DWil6]

I'll let you know how our new fitness regime goes at the end of. 2014. Until then it's almost impossible to know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ipswichpies]

Buttifant certainly was a major component in our success in 2010 & 2011 but I must say that I thought the players were getting stale under Buttifant and I also think it was time for a change.

Buttifant I think to a certain extent was also just going through the motions in the last couple of seasons also so it was best alround that he left.

Like the original poster I also am far happier with our present pre season than the recent ones,I do not know if the current head trainer is responsible for this but I am glad of a change in direction and I would not be surprised if the players do not feel as stale as days gone by.

I reckon we are looking pretty good this pre season and I am very happy with how it is turning out ATM with Davoran.

 

[ipswichpies]

I think we ran out of legs about 6 wks too early in 2011 and I Beams rehab should have been handled better also Thomas as well when he was here could have been handled better.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Read Nick Maxwell's book "One Grand Week" he attributes our ability to get up after the drawn Grand Final solely to Butters.

 

[FredNerk69]

It is Buttifant who is credited with coming up with the bench rotation scheme.


My question was not that the bench rotations was not a great idea as it obviously was that helped us win the GF but bench rotations is not fitness base or injury management but more so a different tactic that worked very well. Does that make you a fitness guru or a great tactician.

In regards to altitude it's interesting that the team that pioneered it has moved on. Is there definite benefits. Nobody will probably really know although we do have our own chamber now so maybe this is where we have moved on to.

Finally I don't know about everybody else but I am over our injury issues from the past few years along with the overly long time it took players to get back to full training and games. Also it's has not been just a few weeks but the entire pre season so far so I would think the players would have had enough time to judge the training.

Just don't remember too many of them raving about Buttifant over the past few years but then again maybe my memory is failing me

 

[jmac70]

OP, here is an idea, let's give Davoran credit where it's due without using it as an excuse to bash Buttifant and Malthouse. Two guys, in case you have forgotten, who oversaw a very successful period in the history of our club. Oh and by the way, the season hasn't started yet, let's wait and see how things go on the injury front before breaking out the champagne.

 

[Manic Magpie]

Too many posters want to praise everything that is new or associated with Bucks, and criticise everything that has been discarded or associated with Malthouse.

 

[Masked Magician]

Butters gave up under buckley, gave no fks, you have to remember he is best mates with mick.. his mentality you dog mick you dog me.
He is overrated and only looked good because all of the money we splashed for his work over the years, let him work 'wonders' at the scum

 

[jmac70]

Too many posters want to praise everything that is new or associated with Bucks, and criticise everything that has been discarded or associated with Malthouse.

Well said. Some people are allowing hero worship to cloud their judgement of the team's current position and to taint the achievements of the past.

 

[Scodog10]

Too many posters want to praise everything that is new or associated with Bucks, and criticise everything that has been discarded or associated with Malthouse.

Meh they're entitled to their opinions.

Both camps have been great for the club IMO. MM, as Jmac stated, oversaw our most successful period for half a century. While Buckley has instigated an absolute about face on our culture (when was the last time we went a 12 month period without an off field incident?) and whether you doubt his coaching abilities or not he will no doubt not leave the club in worse shape than when he took charge.

As for Davoren I think having the same head of fitness for more than a decade can get stale. That doesn't necessarily mean he's doing a good job or otherwise, but the playing group does seem reinvigorated from a fitness standpoint (it is early days though).

Lastly I really don't buy the "players have to be positive about him" line. It's quite easy to avoid the question when asked "how has this pre-season under Davoren been compared to others?" just respond with plenty of the guys are running PB's and we have good numbers in full training. It doesn't really say anything about his impact, but still answers the question in a roundabout way.

 

[Manic Magpie]

Meh they're entitled to their opinions.

Of course people are entitled to their opinions. Without opinions this place would be dull and bland. My opinion is that whilst it is good to be positive about Buckley and the new broom sweeping through the club, let's not be too hasty to condemn what's gone. Buttifant was not dismissed, he resigned to go work with MM. Would Collingwood have fired and replaced him if he hadn't voluntarily left? As to the new guy, it's great to know that the players approve of the new training methods, but will their fitness levels allow them to run out games and see out the season better than under Butts?

 

[Scodog10]

Of course people are entitled to their opinions. Without opinions this place would be dull and bland. My opinion is that whilst it is good to be positive about Buckley and the new broom sweeping through the club, let's not be too hasty to condemn what's gone. Buttifant was not dismissed, he resigned to go work with MM. Would Collingwood have fired and replaced him if he hadn't voluntarily left? As to the new guy, it's great to know that the players approve of the new training methods, but will their fitness levels allow them to run out games and see out the season better than under Butts?

No issues with your post I'd just say that I don't believe we would have renewed his contract (as opposed to firing) had he not decided to move. We'd lost our competitive edge fitness wise IMO and while I acknowledge that Buttifant is brilliant at his job I don't believe he could take our playing group any further.

The admin at Collingwood may well have seen it differently, but change was inevitable whether it was for 2014 or 2015 it was coming.

 

[Mkcaptain]

Buttifant is likely to do great work at Carlton. But I'm of the belief that if you do the same thing for too long it becomes stale, the players lose motivation and it loses effectiveness. I believe that was starting to happen with Buttifant at Collingwood, I could be off the mark but I I think that a change in programs was exactly what we needed. I don't think its a case of Buttifant or Davoren being better than the other, but rather they're different. Buttifant will serve Carlton well and hopefully Davoren will serve us well. I am happy how things have worked out but it would be remiss to undermine the work Buttifant did with us.

 

[Hinequarters]

Too many posters want to praise everything that is new or associated with Bucks, and criticise everything that has been discarded or associated with Malthouse.

You mean the Carlton coach

 

[76woodenspooners]

My question was not that the bench rotations was not a great idea as it obviously was that helped us win the GF but bench rotations is not fitness base or injury management but more so a different tactic that worked very well. Does that make you a fitness guru or a great tactician.

'Fitness Guru' is the answer to that question.

Mick came up with the gameplan (the press, taking the ball the scenic route around the boundary, etc, etc) and he tasked Butters with figuring out how to give the players the fitness base to execute that gameplan over four quarters. Part of Butters' solution was the bench rotations.

 

[Hinequarters]

Mick came up with the gameplan (the press, taking the ball the scenic route around the boundary, etc, etc) and he tasked Butters with figuring out how to give the players the fitness base to execute that gameplan over four quarters. Part of Butters' solution was the bench rotations.

That had been his game plan for a very long time though.. do you not think it a coincidence that the specialized form of that game plan called the Swarm or forward press only came to light once Buckley was made the forward coach? Which coincidentally just seemed spiteful at the time in not making him the midfield coach, he was only our greatest midfielder of all time

And if Butters was responsible for the innovative interchange rotations what exactly did that old fart Malthouse do?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Butters gave up under buckley, gave no fks, you have to remember he is best mates with mick.. his mentality you dog mick you dog me.
He is overrated and only looked good because all of the money we splashed for his work over the years, let him work 'wonders' at the scum

Butters is a professional. He has spent all of his adult life studying and working in sports science.

Reckon he'd compromise his professional reputation by engaging in petty personality issues?

No.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Butters gave up under buckley, gave no fks, you have to remember he is best mates with mick.. his mentality you dog mick you dog me.
He is overrated and only looked good because all of the money we splashed for his work over the years, let him work 'wonders' at the scum

Do you know him?

 

[76woodenspooners]

That had been his game plan for a very long time though..

2007 IIRC?

...do you not think it a coincidence that the specialized form of that game plan called the Swarm or forward press only came to light once Buckley was made the forward coach?

If you want to credit Buckley with tactical input, you have to also credit Malthouse with giving him the autonomy to do that.

Which coincidentally just seemed spiteful at the time in not making him the midfield coach, he was only our greatest midfielder of all time

Spiteful? It worked didn't it?

Rocca was made defensive development coach, was that spiteful too?

And if Butters was responsible for the innovative interchange rotations what exactly did that old fart Malthouse do?

He was the bloke in the hotseat who delivered us a Premiership.

 

[Hinequarters]

2007 IIRC?



If you want to credit Buckley with tactical input, you have to also credit Malthouse with giving him the autonomy to do that.



Spiteful? It worked didn't it?

Rocca was made defensive development coach, was that spiteful too?



He was the bloke in the hotseat who delivered us a Premiership.

A C D B.. no wait

B C A D