Please RTB go back to the future

[meima]

Freo 2015 first half

Vs port ( out of top 8 this year)
Vs geelong ( a different side with add on eg dangerfield)
Vs egirls
Vs sydney ( buddy depression, oldies retire)
Vs Melbourne ( rebuild second last year under roos)
Vs essendon ( supplement scandal)
Vs bulldog ( on the rise)
Vs north Melbourne ( old list, now rebuilding )
Vs adelaide ( on the rise)
Vs richmond ( slide down)
Vs sun ( freo win by a point).

 

[meima]

Some are IMO, seriously under rating what the Dogs achieved this year like they had some charmed run.

The Dogs had a lot of injuries to significant players at important times. In the finals they had to beat WC at Subi which no one gave them a chance of doing. Then back up against Hawthorn, the great team of the modern era, yes they weren't quite the team they were but still handy. Then THE form team of the comp, GWS who had out worked and out pressured Sydney. GWS in the best Sheedy tradition tried to bash them up, that was a very very tough game of footy and the Dogs prevailed again. Finally to beat Sydney, the best team all year who were aching for atonement, fit and primed, Dogs in their first Grand Final with no experienced players.

They played 4 games in a row on that level. We were similar in 2013 but fell apart when it mattered.

And as others have pointed out our game plan is around creating stoppages, hence the ugly footy tag. We didn't get it for no reason.
Dogs for mine play a perfect blend of strong defence with brilliant attack. Their players seem to know each other so well and trust where they will be at stoppages, the percentage of little knocks and behind the head handballs they do that come off is incredible and they just torch you with run once they get moving. So many 50/50 contests yesterday that Sydney threatened to go forward and will a little smother or touch Dogs reversed it and sprinted forward again.

I do agree that the Dogs got a very good run with the umps over the finals and we got the opposite but I can't agree that they just got lucky to in form when the Hawks were falling away. We probably still can't beat the hawks with the way our 2 game plans compare.

I always anticipate to read your post , you always write something that i cant express it in writting but feel the same way.

*Maybe sometime small little thing i disagree but cant think of anything big i disagee.

 

[wayToGo_]

I think we can play that type of footy if we want to, but I would disagree with any who say the personnel is there. They have a lot more pace off half back, don't think Weller is there yet. Roughead and Boyd as mobile ruck/CHF are really well suited to it. We have the foundations there but I think we do need a few more pieces, especially tall types.

Yeah I don't disagree our guys aren't JJ and MBoyd yet but both Crozier and Weller only went into the back line during the season, so probably deserve a pre-season, training specifically for that role before we judge whether they are capable or not. Cedric Cox is probably the JJ of the draft which is why people are expecting him to go first round potentially. Obviously McGrath is a good option for half back but I still think SPS will become a better AFL player personally so am torn.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Gotta have the players. Some of the first/second year players at the Dogs go harder and are more smarter than a lot of our fringe players. Wouldn't see Sheridan, Sutcliffe, Suban etc get a game there.

 

[meima]

Gotta have the players. Some of the first/second year players at the Dogs go harder and are more smarter than a lot of our fringe players. Wouldn't see Sheridan, Sutcliffe, Suban etc get a game there.

I afraid is true , lin jong look great with bulldog before his shoulder injuries , i think he will be bog average with freo.

 

[johnnomac]

Disagree. They play to a plan with getting clean hands from contests to the outside runners.

Crazy pressure on the opposition ball carrier, followed by quick, clean hands to clear outside runners - often with support from a second clear option. The Dogs showed this year that our old game plan can still work.

 

[johnnomac]

... You look at Johannisen's and Boyd's stats and they have massive metres gained numbers but they also have massive clangers. ...

I'm glad you mentioned it. There were countless passages of wasteful play in the GF (particularly from Johannisen) where, after winning the hard ball, kicks seemed to be just bombed forward and turned-over.

 

[johnnomac]

Dont think freo with the current crop will survive with old game style either.

I'm not sure. The new 2016 game plan seemed to rely more on crisp, skillful ball movement. The old one was a more bullocking style. The old one needs more stamina I would have thought.

 

[E Shed]

Crazy pressure on the opposition ball carrier, followed by quick, clean hands to clear outside runners - often with support from a second clear option. The Dogs showed this year that our old game plan can still work.

its not the same, we were always trying to get a stoppage to take advantage of Sandi in close and positioning our mids to stop the other team exiting. Ross admitted we had tried this year not positioning our mids so defensively to get faster exits, exactly what the Dogs do so well. We failed miserably at it without Fyfe and Sandi.
As someone else has pointed out, our second tier don't have anything like the skill and smarts of the Dogs. A lot of credit has to go to their recruiters. I think they pay more attention to footy IQ than ours do. Or perhaps its just their systems are better. We looked a lot sharper with the same players when everyone was on the same page, something we significantly failed to achieve in the last 18 months or so of footy. Our blokes look lost, anxious and indecisive most of the time these days. I don't think I've seen a team so confident, positive and sure of their plan than the Dogs in the finals. Some of their transition is simply breathtaking. Always the next player in the chain is exactly where they need to be and the speed of the release ball from even the tightest situations is incredible. Every team will have a "handball club" next year.

 

[meima]

I'm not sure. The new 2016 game plan seemed to rely more on crisp, skillful ball movement. The old one was a more bullocking style. The old one needs more stamina I would have thought.

I look at bulldog home and away and final series. They can play both brad of football attacking and defence depend on opponent , their injuries and players strength. Any player from reserve can step in if injuries occur and know what to do. Is kind of switching formation. For me i think hawthorn do pretty well consider they go without roughead and with gibson ,mitchell and hodge all a year older.

 

[Andy Brennan]

You guys are crazy, we are way closer to Sydney than the bulldogs. If we were there we would have been trying to stop the bulldogs with stoppage after stoppage

 

[meima]

You guys are crazy, we are way closer to Sydney than the bulldogs. If we were there we would have been trying to stop the bulldogs with stoppage after stoppage

I agree , the only thing to stop me to compare to sydney is academy player and sydney willing to expose inexperienced in nab and afl game . Papley ,allir allir, harrison mash will get no chance in ross lyon final and home and away .

 

[meima]

Because of injuries , luke Beveridge use a lot of players compare to freo 2015 season. Ross prefer a fix system rathar than trust players that play for peel to step in .

 

[Scham]

Our blokes look lost, anxious and indecisive most of the time these days. I don't think I've seen a team so confident, positive and sure of their plan than the Dogs in the finals. Some of their transition is simply breathtaking. Always the next player in the chain is exactly where they need to be and the speed of the release ball from even the tightest situations is incredible. Every team will have a "handball club" next year.

Up until yesterday I had. Sydney v Geelong but the Bulldogs totally shut them (Sydney) down. Sydney couldn't get their quick handballing to the outside like they wanted to do and it more often ended up in a loose ball where the Bulldogs were first to it.

I don't recall seeing any slingshot at all from Sydney either but against Geelong they killed it in that area. The Bulldogs just shut down every avenue that Sydney took coming out of defence even after a quick turnover.

Bevo is a very, very good coach.

 

[Scham]

Because of injuries , luke Beveridge use a lot of players compare to freo 2015 season. Ross prefer a fix system rathar than trust players that play for peel to step in .

Yep, the youth in the Bulldogs side didn't hamper their push towards a flag at all. In fact, as many of us on here understand, it added a verve, energy and no fear attitude. They didn't get overawed on the big stage at all, they just threw caution to the wind and stuck to the plan without overthinking things or getting anxious.

 

[rodney hoo]

Because of injuries , luke Beveridge use a lot of players compare to freo 2015 season. Ross prefer a fix system rathar than trust players that play for peel to step in .

Exactly us know alls on bf were calling for subtle changes when we started to struggle in the second half year, but stuck to the tried and tested even when carrying minor injuries. No one remembers who won the minor premiership.

 

[ep2018]

Bev won the flag using his system. A system that had only worked this year in the past two decades. Doesnt mean you have to change things up. You went SF, GF, SF and PF (and minor premier) using your system, with a team that no offense had a crud bottom 5 of your top 22 (yes I know our bottom 5 is worse so dont point it out pls). Why change?

 

[meima]

Bev won the flag using his system. A system that had only worked this year in the past two decades. Doesnt mean you have to change things up. You went SF, GF, SF and PF (and minor premier) using your system, with a team that no offense had a crud bottom 5 of your top 22 (yes I know our bottom 5 is worse so dont point it out pls). Why change?

Why would we listen to neighbour rival posties.

 

[rodney hoo]

Yep, the youth in the Bulldogs side didn't hamper their push towards a flag at all. In fact, as many of us on here understand, it added a verve, energy and no fear attitude. They didn't get overawed on the big stage at all, they just threw caution to the wind and stuck to the plan without overthinking things or getting anxious.

This also probably helped the swans this year, they had a lot first timers as well, paperly though not to good yesterday had a big season, alir alir as well xavier Richards to name a few.

 

[johnnomac]

its not the same, we were always trying to get a stoppage to take advantage of Sandi in close and positioning our mids to stop the other team exiting. Ross admitted we had tried this year not positioning our mids so defensively to get faster exits, exactly what the Dogs do so well. We failed miserably at it without Fyfe and Sandi.
As someone else has pointed out, our second tier don't have anything like the skill and smarts of the Dogs. A lot of credit has to go to their recruiters. I think they pay more attention to footy IQ than ours do. Or perhaps its just their systems are better. We looked a lot sharper with the same players when everyone was on the same page, something we significantly failed to achieve in the last 18 months or so of footy. Our blokes look lost, anxious and indecisive most of the time these days. I don't think I've seen a team so confident, positive and sure of their plan than the Dogs in the finals. Some of their transition is simply breathtaking. Always the next player in the chain is exactly where they need to be and the speed of the release ball from even the tightest situations is incredible. Every team will have a "handball club" next year.

Stoppage stats from 2011 and on, are interesting. From 2011-2013 we sat at an average of around 25/game which had us at around 5 to 8th. Sydney during that time were head and shoulders above everyone for stoppages. 2014 saw all teams lift their stoppage count, and by 2015 Freo were first in the stoppage count at 29.2/game. In that same year our hitouts and clearances were also competition best, but centre clearances had us at 8th. Obviously the dominant competition game-plan moves around from season-to-season.

The question, which game plan are we wanting to "go back to" - the 2012-2013 or the 2014-2015 one?

 

[Mr Peabody]

But seriously go back check out our games from the first half of 2015 and if you still come back and say that it was ugly footy all about creating stoppages then I'll happily eat my words. I haven't re-watched all 10 games but whenever I've gone back and looked at passages of those games we were playing on at all costs just like the Doggies do and especially with our defensive transition.

Hawthorn came last this season for congestion possessions for about the fourth season in a row. So much for needing to win the hardball. The future is attacking non-stop football.

Crazy pressure on the opposition ball carrier, followed by quick, clean hands to clear outside runners - often with support from a second clear option. The Dogs showed this year that our old game plan can still work.

its not the same, we were always trying to get a stoppage to take advantage of Sandi in close and positioning our mids to stop the other team exiting. Ross admitted we had tried this year not positioning our mids so defensively to get faster exits, exactly what the Dogs do so well. Some of their transition is simply breathtaking. Always the next player in the chain is exactly where they need to be and the speed of the release ball from even the tightest situations is incredible. Every team will have a "handball club" next year.

You guys are crazy, we are way closer to Sydney than the bulldogs. If we were there we would have been trying to stop the bulldogs with stoppage after stoppage

Bev won the flag using his system. A system that had only worked this year in the past two decades. Doesnt mean you have to change things up. You went SF, GF, SF and PF (and minor premier) using your system, with a team that no offense had a crud bottom 5 of your top 22 (yes I know our bottom 5 is worse so dont point it out pls). Why change?

In advance of getting booted out to do the lawns, I've collated the stats from our 2013 Finals campaign, the first 9 wins of our 2015 campaign and the Bulldogs 2016 finals campaign below. My initial thoughts:-

1. Contested Possessions - seems to be one of the key stats and at our best we were 10-19% below what the Bulldogs achieved this year.
2. Stoppages - The overall numbers of stoppages for a game are similar across all eras. As many of you have commented above, it's what one is trying to do at a stoppage that matters. The number of clearances won is similar too but I'd expect it's how effective you are when you have won a clearance that is the difference. It's anecdotal, but the Bulldogs seem to have cleaner hands out of stoppages in the way they handball, flick and tap it on.

 

[meima]

Stoppage stats from 2011 and on, are interesting. From 2011-2013 we sat at an average of around 25/game which had us at around 5 to 8th. Sydney during that time were head and shoulders above everyone for stoppages. 2014 saw all teams lift their stoppage count, and by 2015 Freo were first in the stoppage count at 29.2/game. In that same year our hitouts and clearances were also competition best, but centre clearances had us at 8th. Obviously the dominant competition game-plan moves around from season-to-season.

The question, which game plan are we wanting to "go back to" - the 2012-2013 or the 2014-2015 one?

Do you take into account before this year there is this sub rule.freo might win 2013 and last year preminary if without the sub rule.

 

[johnnomac]

Do you take into account before this year there is this sub rule.

The less said about our performance pre-2011, the better ...

 

[Rob]

Mumford is not a dominant ruckman, it's a fallacy perpetuated by the media. Sandilands has handed him his ass since the beginning of his career. If Sandilands was rucking for GWS when Roughead went down and he only had Boyd to contend with, they win that game.

Yeah, Mumford would be in the overrated top 10 in the league. Good player, and has been well suited to the GWS team (hard as nails in a team that up until recently was young and lacking in experience), but not that great a pure ruckman - nowhere near the elite level that some have been suggesting.

 

[CamTinley]

Yeah, Mumford would be in the overrated top 10 in the league. Good player, and has been well suited to the GWS team (hard as nails in a team that up until recently was young and lacking in experience), but not that great a pure ruckman - nowhere near the elite level that some have been suggesting.

Mumford's strength is not his ruck work. It's the way he intimidates the opposition. He doesn't just intimidate the average sized players, he intimidates the biggest players.
GWS have a poor winning record when he is not playing.