Guilty of what?
The Law Police
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Guilty of what?
Bradesmaen
TheBrownDog
Serious misconduct. It was in the article. Maybe guilty is a strong word, but the report found them to have engaged in serious misconduct and recommended disciplinary action.
Serious misconduct, according to the article.
The offenders were stupid but the cop made some stupid mistakes himself. Could have handled it better.
Bradesmaen
TheBrownDog
Pursuit is a strong word, it's not as if she sped off, they were probably just following her at regular speed.
She also did give her licence over but her mother had none. There is nothing wrong with that and her mother does not even need to produce an ID in that situation. In the case of a full licence person you have 24 hours to produce it anyway.
Also you think a cop saying Villawood is fine? Or cuffing her? Or demanding her mums ID is fine? Or saying that she was aiding and abetting a crime on a temporary visa? Jesus. Why not let the cops just shoot everyone like they do in the US.
Actually the mother could be excused on the grounds that she is recently from a very different culture.
Its actually the drivers responsibility to ensure the passengers are buckled up though.
Its the drivers responsibility to display P Plates when required.
The big one is that its the drivers responsibility to pull over when directed. The OJ Simpson slow car chase is not a standard part of the system, and penalties are logically sever.
Trying not to produce the drivers license and the other obstructive behaviour is stupid too.
I understand the why the cop got angry but you're right he went way beyond what the limits of professionalism would allow.
I don't believe that he had the rights to ask the passenger for identification. What crime is she suspected of that would require this.
Yes if she was suspected of being an illegal immigrant and failed to produce valid documents, Villawood may in fact be the destination. But that cop was not ABF and had no jurisdiction to do so, and had no reason to suspect she was illegal.
( its actually really hard to catch illegal immigrants because hardly anyone can compel them to produce ID unless they commit a crime ).
It works the other way as well.
Look at what this guy with "one of those" disability pensions did because he got called a smart arse. ( seems like he is one ).
When can police detain you and ask for identification in NSW? - Stacks Law Firm
Police powers were tested when a court awarded a man $3,201 for false imprisonment after he was detained by police at a Sydney train station.
His suite against the cops was eventually overturned. I guess the Lawyers love it.
Bradesmaen
TheBrownDog
Yes that's a very well known part of the laws of driving
OJ wasn't a completely slow car chase and he was weaving in and out of traffic at the time with MULTIPLE cars behind him.The big one is that its the drivers responsibility to pull over when directed. The OJ Simpson slow car chase is not a standard part of the system, and penalties are logically sever.
Trying not to produce the drivers license and the other obstructive behaviour is stupid too.
I understand the why the cop got angry but you're right he went way beyond what the limits of professionalism would allow.
I don't believe that he had the rights to ask the passenger for identification. What crime is she suspected of that would require this.
Yes if she was suspected of being an illegal immigrant and failed to produce valid documents, Villawood may in fact be the destination. But that cop was not ABF and had no jurisdiction to do so, and had no reason to suspect she was illegal.
( its actually really hard to catch illegal immigrants because hardly anyone can compel them to produce ID unless they commit a crime ).
It works the other way as well.
Look at what this guy with "one of those" disability pensions did because he got called a smart arse. ( seems like he is one ).
When can police detain you and ask for identification in NSW? - Stacks Law Firm
Police powers were tested when a court awarded a man $3,201 for false imprisonment after he was detained by police at a Sydney train station.www.stacklaw.com.au
His suite against the cops was eventually overturned. I guess the Lawyers love it.
Her daughter had a big piece of paper that may be her Temp Visa, but yes the Cops competely ****ed it by being aggressive morons. They saw a chance to act tough and went over the line, in fact they went over the line twice as they went all the way around and back over the line again.
In that disability case it just shows you how cops like to think they know all. They didn't see him steal anything so their only suspicion is that he is young and moving ok therefore he can't be disabled.
You can really relate an angry cop mouthing off to shooting someone?
Do you think cops shouldn't be able to compel anyone to do anything. Villawood wasn't a racist slur. It was an insinuation that if she couldn't produce ID she would be treated as an illegal immigrant, not anywhere near as absurd or over the top as the murder comment.
If an angry cop came up to me and demanded my ID, i'd just show him, whether he had the rights or not, i have nothing to hide I show my ID for all sorts of stuff all the time. He might get less angry and realise he's over the top.
Why are these people so automatically un-cooperative? Why do they force confrontation?
How did she force confrontation? By pulling over and cooperating with the officer, producing her ID upon request?
Bradesmaen
TheBrownDog
How is Villawood not a racist slur? She's afghani on a Temp visa that is allowed to be in the country. He just saw Afghani and immediately went to illegal immigrant.
Cops should be able to compel if there is reasonable suspicion - if not we are getting into Peter Dutton territory. If I'm walking down the street the cops shouldn't be able to ask me for ID randomly. And yes I'd be telling them no because I know my rights and while I have nothing to hide they don't have the right to make me bring out my ID.
People get defensive when cops start yelling at them. He was yelling at her from the beginning - yes she was stupid for not pulling over, but he could have acted calmly but he didn't.
There are some truly top cops around, but unfortunately like life there are some truly s**t ones who again think they are the law, not enforcing the law. Those are the ones who should not be cops.
If the car doesn't stop there was a pursuit.
Not a high speed pursuit.
Failing to stop for a police vehicle. By driving slowly, she would avoid all the dangerous/culpable driving charges that a high speed pursuit would gather.
Its a pretty serious crime, and i'd suggest she was really really stupid for not just stopping, smiling and acting dumb.
-----------------------------------
Failing to stop for police in NSW
Failing to stop for police in NSW. Learn more about failing to stop for NSW police here, or call our Legal Hotline 7am-midnight, 7 days on 1300 636 846.
www.gotocourt.com.au
If you have failed to stop your motor vehicle for a police officer after a direction to do so, you will be liable to pay a fine of around $5,000. You may also be facing a term of imprisonment of up to 12 months. It is important to note that a court may choose to impose both of these penalties depending on the severity of the infringement. The court will also impose a period of disqualification to the offender’s driver’s licence in addition to any other penalty given.
If you have failed to comply with any other direction by a police officer whilst in control of a motor vehicle, you will also be committing a crime and may be liable to pay a fine and/or serve a term of imprisonment similar to those outlined above.
------------------------------------------
He was suggesting in his idiotic manner, that if she could not provide identification , then she would be treated as an illegal immigrant. He clearly didn't believe this to be the case as he stated a few times, that "she'll have a passport ".
He wasn't suggesting that an immigrant with a valid visa would go there.
I agree that the police required disciplinary measures.
However i hope that the driver was not let off her charges.
There's no defending the way the officers approached that situation. It was completely unnecessary, and obviously so. They deserve any and all administrative action that occurs to them.
There's no defending the way the driver handled the situation. It was completely unnecessary, and obviously so. She deserves to lose her licence.
See what happens when stupid people get stupid at the same time.
Did anyone defend the driver?
The women are nuffies but the cop.. man what a bellend.
If there's one thing cops hate it's drop kicks who don't pull over when instructed.
And on the seat belt thing, I've been to backward countries where taxi drivers would get offended if you put a seat belt on, the implication being they are such poor drivers that they may crash the vehicle.
As a multicultural society, we have to accept many of the people who have migrated here may be uneducated, and lack the ability to work out and communicate basic information such as their current age.
Having said that, they all seem to possess the ability to fill out a complaint form.
And on the seat belt thing, I've been to backward countries where taxi drivers would get offended if you put a seat belt on, the implication being they are such poor drivers that they may crash the vehicle.
As a multicultural society, we have to accept many of the people who have migrated here may be uneducated, and lack the ability to work out and communicate basic information such as their current age.
Having said that, they all seem to possess the ability to fill out a complaint form.
Bradesmaen
TheBrownDog
I honestly never thought I'd see a cop being defended for being racist, but I guess there are certain people who feel they are superior.
- May 1, 2016
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...
Because people go into fight/flight when placed in situations which cause them stress? Quite unreasonable is it, to when you have a cop threatening you with imprisonment and/or getting you up on false charges (and, considering how happy some are to speak of other countries as third world shitholes, perhaps that would not be considered an idle threat) to react as though, you know, you are afraid?
This is why police are trained to defuse situations, instead of wielding their blues like a broadsword. This officer handled himself poorly, and if you follow the link there was apparently more things said once the cameras were turned off, which the officers did not dispute.
He's frustrated, yeah? You want frustrated people with guns pulling you over? Or you want people in full control of themselves and their actions acting as the agents of the law and representatives of the state that they are at all times when on duty?
Yep, it's one thing to be understandably angry or frustrated, but the police carried that on with their investigation rather than being professional and switching back a couple Defcon levels.
You can 100% understand being very pissed for a bit after initially pulling them over. But a normal rational person would then ease up to deal with the situation calmly and sensibly before handing out whatever infringements were appropriate. This tosser is on a massive power trip v a couple of scared little women.
- May 1, 2016
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I was once - after working a night shift in my early twenties - on a narrow two lane road at about 2:00am at night. On one side of the road there was a steep drop - down to some paddocks - and on the other side of the road was a racecourse, with a solid fence almost right up hard against the road.
A police car started flashing their lights behind me for me to stop, but I'd been on this road before when the police had pulled someone over. It basically cuts off the entire road, made it unsafe for the police as well, who now have to dodge cars coming from both directions. I slowed down, so they would know I wasn't fleeing, and pulled into the side street that was a business court up ahead, making sure to indicate well ahead so they knew what I was doing; it was about 2 kilometers up the road. When they asked me why I did it, I just told them that stopping back there would've been unsafe. They didn't reply back to it, but after checking me for alcohol they let me go.
On one hand, she should've pulled over, and her mother should've been wearing her seatbelt, and her fearful response probably increased his frustration. On the other hand, she has every reason to be afraid, given that this muppet called her the stupidest thing he'd ever seen, threatened her with jail and false imprisonment, and there was clearly a bit of a language barrier there as well, slowing her responses and her understanding even further.
I have every sympathy for police officers and their jobs, and I acknowledge how hard it is to keep one's cool at all times. It doesn't stop it from being a necessary component of being a cop though.
I do have a question for the thread, though. I know a cop has every right to ask for a driver's ID, but do they have the selfsame right to ask for a passenger's ID in the event of there not being a learner in the chair?
They can ask ID from anyone in the car but the question should be is when passengers have to provide it. They do if they have committed any offence whatsoever including seatbelt offences or arm out the window.
Or if the belief exists that the vehicle has been used in the commission of any indictable offence.
Or they suspect the passenger has been involved in an indictable offence or there are other reasonable grounds to request identification.
Bit of grey area in States where p-platers have restrictions on peer passengers where point of proof is that the passengers are not immediately related to driver.
Of course I could be wrong.
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reprehensible are the dudes who pretend to be 'swallowing the thin blue line'... the dude who had the EAD sticker is a
good looking dude but he is also under the apprehension that he is gonna have his legend expired...
NO of course I wanted to say it and he aint the enemy... some hippies are also pretty gormless as well..
tramping a long and winding road...
good looking dude but he is also under the apprehension that he is gonna have his legend expired...
NO of course I wanted to say it and he aint the enemy... some hippies are also pretty gormless as well..
tramping a long and winding road...
- May 1, 2016
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I'm not hugely into the police being allowed to do that. Sure, they recognise someone who is genuinely a fugitive in the passenger seat, that's one thing, but why should a passenger - effectively a bystander in the situation between the driver and the officer in question - be required to provide their ID on request?
If you asked me to enunciate exactly why, though, I'm not sure I could provide an answer that marries up to why I feel this way. It could be that the police in that scenario are agents of the state demanding identification from private individuals, potentially against their interests, but it isn't quite that either.
