List Mgmt. Possible trades for 2016

[Elite Crow]

Their options were

• Danger field as a free-agent don't pick up Smith, Henderson and Selwood
• Risk Dangerfield in the PSD and trade for Smith, Henderson and Selwood
• Trade for all players

The best option for their club was to trade for all, but since the other options were available to them it weakened our bargaining position.

I think if they had to choose between Dangerfield and Smith, Henderson and Selwood they would have cut the other 3 loose and paid everything they had to get Dangerfield.

And weakened their team by losing the other players.

 

[Pdub]

And weakened their team by losing the other players.

The AFL is a closed system, if you take something away from one team you are giving it to another, if you hurt one team you are helping another, unless the team that you are helping is us, there is no point in us worrying about what helps one club over another. The AFC only needs to worry about what is best for the AFC.

 

[Mego Red]

And weakened their team by losing the other players.

Yeah. They had to choose to either give up players (to clear salary space) or picks.

None of us disagree about this. We only disagree about how much hand we were left with.

If they did the first version, we were left with nothing other than a compo pick and they were left with less talent. If they did the second, they got to keep players and we got to get more value for Danger.

Both versions had them getting Dangerfield. If we were dicks about the second version, we arguably had more to lose.

Even if you think THEY had more to lose, the best outcome had us working together. It wasn't worth going nuclear for the difference between a first, a second and a player and two first round picks.

 

[rubbers0ul]

I

And once RFA contracts are lodged the value is almost immediately public knowledge. This would have destroyed Geelong much vaunted salary cap parity system. Even if they could pay Danger $1.2m per year, it would be culture destroying for that to become common knowledge. I'm not convinced he's not on $1m+, but I am quite certain that Geelong couldn't afford for that to become public information.

If that pick was never on the table, they need only have spent it first on Henderson. Which was continually being stated as going to occur by various Geelong supporting flogs who had NFI.

Both of dangerfields parents are employed by Costa group which until they listed on the asx frank was pulling the strings.

Fair to assume the salaries of mr and Mrs dangerfield would not be arms length.

Might help go some way towards explaining dangers reduced salary at the cats.

 

[Bicks]

I


Both of dangerfields parents are employed by Costa group which until they listed on the asx frank was pulling the strings.

Fair to assume the salaries of mr and Mrs dangerfield would not be arms length.

Might help go some way towards explaining dangers reduced salary at the cats.

You do realise John Dangerfield is also employed by the AFC as a talent scout in South Western Victoria yeah?

Think Tom Doedee......

 

[rubbers0ul]

You do realise John Dangerfield is also employed by the AFC as a talent scout in South Western Victoria yeah?

Think Tom Doedee......

Oh so you would know then scouting is not a full time job and the remuneration for the hours put in equates to the same hourly pay as a 12 year old burger flipper?

And you do realize these scouts wage is now included in the off field equalization cap? (Scully's parents employed pre the cap comin in)

Compared to an unregulated (at least at the top end) employee wage at Costa group ...

I wonder which one will pay more

 

[Bacon8]

Oh so you would know then scouting is not a full time job and the remuneration for the hours put in equates to the same hourly pay as a 12 year old burger flipper?

And you do realize these scouts wage is now included in the off field equalization cap? (Scully's parents employed pre the cap comin in)

Compared to an unregulated (at least at the top end) employee wage at Costa group ...

I wonder which one will pay more

You do realise that Mrs Dangerfield (and his aunty) has worked for Costa since before Pat was drafted.

 

[rubbers0ul]

You do realise that Mrs Dangerfield (and his aunty) has worked for Costa since before Pat was drafted.

Yep - and?

Easier to give bonus, base pay increase, employee share options et al to long standing employees.

 

[rezagun]

Lobbe, Broadbent, Carlisle, Hartlett will all be on the trade table says warren tredrea. The question is who would want them?
Lobbe has a contract that has 3-4 years remaining on it.
Broadbent is past his best and is an average footballer.
Carlisle is fat and injured and not even rated higher than recent draftees atm.
Hartlett just signed a 700k 5 year deal..
Add to the pile; westhoff, ebert, jonas, neade, oshea and stewart.
The only player id go for from port would be r.gray. No doubt they would want a kings ransom but it would really destroy any hope they had of a flag in the next 5 years. Lets kick the boot in.

 

[MRB37]

Might get a 2nd for Lobbe now. Carlisle will be 30 next season, no one is going to give up anything significant for him. Hartlett is one a big contract and almost looks like a more expensive version of Mackay at times.

Add to the fact that they have to agree to be traded, Lobbe vetoed them last year, and it's not like either are in a Bernie Vince position were they're coming out of contract and have a long term, $2 million deal there on the table to entice them to move. They've all got 3-4 years left on their deals, so there's really not anything for them to gain by being traded.

 

[Sanders]

Anyone who believes Geelong could have gotten Dangerfield for free, but chose to pay for him instead is crazy. Not worth listening to type crazy

They did what was best for them in the circumstances they faced. Again, arguing this is the realm of the crazy person

Now accepting the reality that Geelong found themselves in means that we can see how badly we did.

It's a good thing GWS didn't "anchor" in negotiations, they might have had to accept less than pick 7&5 (presently).

Hooray for not anchoring. No wonder Geelong's negotiating team were so complementary about us

 

[Pdub]

Anyone who believes Geelong could have gotten Dangerfield for free, but chose to pay for him instead is crazy. Not worth listening to type crazy

They did what was best for them in the circumstances they faced. Again, arguing this is the realm of the crazy person

Now accepting the reality that Geelong found themselves in means that we can see how badly we did.

It's a good thing GWS didn't "anchor" in negotiations, they might have had to accept less than pick 7&5 (presently).

Hooray for not anchoring. No wonder Geelong's negotiating team were so complementary about us

Not worth responding if you don't understand the argument they were making.

It's obvious that they did what was best for them, the argument is they had other options that weren't as good for them that would have been much worse to us.

They preferred to not over pay PD, doesn't mean they were unable to.

We were also very complementary about Geelong, Ogilvie said just this week they are one of the best clubs to trade with.

 

[Sanders]

It's obvious that they did what was best for them, the argument is they had other options that weren't as good for them that would have been much worse to us.

That's not even an argument, that's the crazy talking.

given the size of the difference between what they did and the other options only crazy could believe there was any choice in it.

 

[kulak]

I took the Ogilvie comment about them being good to trade with, as meaning they were amenable, responsive, etc. responded to meeting requests. Pleasant in person.

This being mutually exclusive to their capability as negotiators, their ability to establish the strongest position in the negotiations, and come away with a very favourable trade.

I am sure Ogilvie isn't stupid enough to think that people being good to deal with, has any correlation with those people doing you any favours in an adversarial negotiation

 

[Sanders]

Why did they fob us off with a second round pick, and give the much more valuable 2016 first to Carlton?

Because Carlton anchored and wouldn't accept any less.

Heck Carlton didn't get a whole lot less for Henderson that we did for dangerfield.

Carlton and GWS dig in, we didn't. Who did better?

Even the crazies can figure that out

 

[Pdub]

That's not even an argument, that's the crazy talking.

given the size of the difference between what they did and the other options only crazy could believe there was any choice in it.

Perhaps they just had more creative thinkers and problem solvers than your good-self

 

[Mego Red]

That's not even an argument, that's the crazy talking.

given the size of the difference between what they did and the other options only crazy could believe there was any choice in it.

The argument has been made very rationally around what their options were. It's simple.

I genuinely don't think you understand. I think your understanding of the issue is a bit off, and has been since you suggested the Crows would just accept the compo pick. That was a confused suggestion then and I think you've not offered anything less confused since.

 

[Mego Red]

Why did they fob us off with a second round pick, and give the much more valuable 2016 first to Carlton?

Because Carlton anchored and wouldn't accept any less.

Heck Carlton didn't get a whole lot less for Henderson that we did for dangerfield.

Carlton and GWS dig in, we didn't. Who did better?

Even the crazies can figure that out

So - you don't understand why the Dangerfield situation was different?

And be sensible. Carlton got a late first. We got an early first, early second and player for Dangerfield and a nothing pick.

GWS got two firsts for a player and a second. Which is REMARKABLY similar to us.

 

[Pdub]

Why did they fob us off with a second round pick, and give the much more valuable 2016 first to Carlton?

Because Carlton anchored and wouldn't accept any less.

Heck Carlton didn't get a whole lot less for Henderson that we did for dangerfield.

Carlton and GWS dig in, we didn't. Who did better?

Even the crazies can figure that out

The "crazies" can figure out GWS and Carlton weren't dealing with free agents who could leave for nothing, they can also figure out that Trelor and Henderson were taking offers from other victorian clubs so if a deal wasn't done with Geelong or collingwood they had alternate clubs that they were willing to go to.

Say we "anchored" like all the "expert" negotiators are saying we didn't do, then Carlton don't send them Henderson. They don't get Henderson, suddenly they have an extra $400k-$500k per year to add onto PD's deal making it much harder for us to match. Meaning they get PD without a trade and draft Milera. Not their ideal outcome as it doesn't fix their defensive problem at a time when they think they can reach for a premiership, but still a pretty good outcome for them, terrible for us though.

The "crazies" realise the negotiating happens long before trade week for all the big deals, for the PD deal it was probably worked out a bit before Geelong re-signed Motlop whose salary could have also been used had they needed to.

 

[Sanders]

Perhaps they just had more creative thinkers and problem solvers than your good-self

The outcomes would demonstrate that they did not

If Geelong were able to get him for free, then their outcomes were horrendous

If they could not, then they played a blinder at our expense

 

[Sanders]

The "crazies" can figure out GWS and Carlton weren't dealing with free agents who could leave for nothing,

Neither were we. That is such a better option for Geelong they would have taken that.

the crazies must sure be crazy if theyre happy with you as their self appointment spokesman

 

[Scorpus]

Sam Mayes is off the trade table. Signed until 2019

(I personally don't think he's been in good enough form for a 3 year extension, but whatever)

 

[Pdub]

The outcomes would demonstrate that they did not

If Geelong were able to get him for free, then their outcomes were horrendous

If they could not, then they played a blinder at our expense

Neither were we. That is such a better option for Geelong they would have taken that.

the crazies must sure be crazy if theyre happy with you as their self appointment spokesman

Come on sanders put some brain power into it, just a little bit.

Paying PD the Salary of 2-3 guys and not fixing the hole in their defence would not be a better option than paying PD less than market value and fixing their weaknesses by bringing in Smith and Henderson and resigning Motlop. But it was an option they had.

 

[Sanders]

Come on sanders put some brain power into it, just a little bit.

Paying PD the Salary of 2-3 guys and not fixing the hole in their defence would not be a better option than paying PD less than market value and fixing their weaknesses by bringing in Smith and Henderson and resigning Motlop. But it was an option they had.

its almost like you've forgotten what side you're trying to argue.

 

[Pdub]

its almost like you've forgotten what side you're trying to argue.

are you just playing dumb now?