Autopsy Post Mortem vs Melbourne

[TradeDraft]

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Just flicked on the TV and saw the last few minutes again and somehow brought myself to watch it. Couple things.

1. When the scores were 98-93 (prior to the Watts sealer) Adams had the ball from a uncontested mark about 70m out, I didn't think his option was good. It was a kick to De Goey which needed a perfect kick to hit him, not just that it would of put De Goey 40m out close to the boundary. He didn't mark it and melbourne rebounded for the watts goal. Wouldn't the best thing in that situation be long kick to the top of the square? It's harder to rebound cleanly in that position and a better chance for us to score

2. After Watts kicked the goal at the next centre bounce we got the clearance and Adams was kicking inside 50, he clearly got pushed in the back as he kicked and It effected the kick and it wasn't called (even Tim Watson said he thought it was a push)

3. The very next play where the ball went from the Adams kick, Hunt got it and tried to take it on coming out of defence, treloar got him and he dropped it, they didn't call it which is very annoying given the amount of HTB calls we had against us in the last. CONSISTENCY.

Thoughts?

You should watch the video in the 'Greenwood Free Kick' thread. Confirmed points 2 and 3.

 

[100volt1]

I've posted this in the Greenwood free kick thread, worth posting here regarding Umpiring.

 

[SlyDer]

this hurts to watch all these poor decisions.


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[DaVe86]

Agree with all that, except as I understand the time clock is 30 seconds to start the run-up, not to have the shot.

 

[100volt1]

Agree with all that, except as I understand the time clock is 30 seconds to start the run-up, not to have the shot.

S**t rule that. So you're telling me you can start your run up 50 metres from the man on the mark then start your 50 metre run up as long as your in line of the mark?

That's f**ked

 

[No SPIN]

Just flicked on the TV and saw the last few minutes again and somehow brought myself to watch it. Couple things.

1. When the scores were 98-93 (prior to the Watts sealer) Adams had the ball from a uncontested mark about 70m out, I didn't think his option was good. It was a kick to De Goey which needed a perfect kick to hit him, not just that it would of put De Goey 40m out close to the boundary. He didn't mark it and melbourne rebounded for the watts goal. Wouldn't the best thing in that situation be long kick to the top of the square? It's harder to rebound cleanly in that position and a better chance for us to score

2. After Watts kicked the goal at the next centre bounce we got the clearance and Adams was kicking inside 50, he clearly got pushed in the back as he kicked and It effected the kick and it wasn't called (even Tim Watson said he thought it was a push)

3. The very next play where the ball went from the Adams kick, Hunt got it and tried to take it on coming out of defence, treloar got him and he dropped it, they didn't call it which is very annoying given the amount of HTB calls we had against us in the last. CONSISTENCY.

Thoughts?

Completely agree with 2 &3. With 3 I didnt notice it until I watched the replay.

With 1, DG had goaled from a similar position so I feel it was a fair option, and DG uncharacteristically got beaten for the ground ball. If we were defending a lead maybe top of the square to then lock it in waste time could have been an option, but to win the game kicking to a 1 on 1 to DG was fine in my view.

Correctly executed and a conversion by DG puts us in front.
Far less likely that kick to the square offer as good odds of scoring a goal.

 

[wicksy]

If your name is Sando22 and you've liked this post, then you eat shit for breakfast.

 

[No SPIN]

Adams was right in front of me he was absolutely stuffed he was going up and down on the one spot so was the rest of them anyone there would have seen we were gone in the last and was actually a real gutsy effort to go to the wire but we needed luck the kind of luck Melbourne got.

WHE was worried that Watts was going the centre the ball, and didnt realise there were others to cover this. Had he chosen instead to run toward Watts and close him down then Watts would had far more difficulty in kicking the goal.

So poor talking. ie covering player should have told WHE it was fine to got to Watts.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Think that's the basis of it but the difference at the moment between being good or not good enough is pretty small. I feel we have improved but also there are lots of teams in a similar level. It's for that reason our upward path is not fait accompli. Still lot of work to do and uncertainty about us taking the next steps.

This is where I agree, and lots of teams fit this description.
More to do. More work needed. More good habits to bed down.
More bad habits to lose.

But it's in front of the group. They may as well build together.

Our best hope is a few of our younger ones go to the higher levels on a consistent basis.
Then we'll know we are in it big time.

A lot to happen first

 

[SuperSub17]

I've posted this in the Greenwood free kick thread, worth posting here regarding Umpiring.

Nice work with some of those slow-mos. Confirmed chopping the arms is a load of shit when they decide to pluck one out in front of goal with 1 second on the clock and ignore it the rest of the game.

Then we have the umpire making up shit about that "front-on contact" incident. The Collingwood player was facing the other way? What on earth were you watching?

Consistency with holding the ball was an absolute joke as well, as has been pointed out numerous times. Notice how two Melbourne players dragging the ball back in is conveniently ignored at 3:27.

And Melbourne supporters try to tell us they got one fortunate decision the entire game

 

[TradeDraft]

Umps most of the Time Guess to make a Call or Not

 

[Vankri]

Pretty simple.

Umpiring screwed us and we would have won if it was fair on the night between the calls that got Melbourne scores and the ones that we should have got to score from.

That set aside we also didn't help ourselves. I said I was worried with our defensive smalls before the game and sadly it's what cost us in the end. Turnovers, hospital handballs and lack of composure from our small to mid defensive group (Smith, Langdon, Crisp, Scharenberg and Adams when he was the +1 there) basically gave Melbourne the majority of their scores and we should have been able to anticipate this.

After the first half we were too tired to close space and Melbourne regained form and started dominating. But overall our structures were good, we just lost this one at the selection table (Ramsay vs Langdon) and because we didn't change our plan mid way through the third when the tide was against us.

I'll say it again, I think if we had switched Pendles and De Goey in the 3rd we could have stopped their run and helped Pendles get into the game. It just pains me to constantly see De Goey forward and it pains that in the warm up he's training with the forwards when Broomhead trains with our midfield group.

If we get Elliott back and one of Sinclair or Varcoe to play at half back we'll have a really strong team and can compete with anyone. The only scare is if finals start to feel out of reach, we might not see the same motivation from the playing group as we've seen in the past 5 weeks.

Individually I think Maynard had a great game again, Aish an impressive come back I wasn't expecting and Brown a strong debut that should get him a good run of games.

Adams had a poor game but the comments on him are way too harsh. He hasn't been getting recognition for his work this year, he's been our best or second best player and a great leader. One poor performance shouldn't erase this (Essendon game aside that was the coach's fault for playing him as a small forward). He just simply needs to be told NOT to kick it sideways, always handball first or go long, and stop spending so much time at half back.

Sidey, Treloar, Dunn, Phillips and De Goey all good.

Langdon and Smith really poor. They'll get another game and fair enough but there are better options waiting to come in post bye.

Really frustrating of course as we should have won both this and the GWS one making us the in form team in the comp but instead we've got our backs against the wall again. I'm still reassured as to the state of our list and I feel we're seeing progress into some of the key players for our future.

 

[Pie eyed]

Both field umpires should be summarily sacked.

 

[30yearpie]

I think a key thing missing from Grundy's and Cox's game is the ability to take a grab and use their height to advantage. Grundy actually plucked a few yesterday and Cox in the VFL did as well. Should they start doing this it gives them a whole new dimension as players. It is frustrating at times that they don't do it more as a lot of relieving kicks get sent in their direction, however if they were marking at will they would be played as KPFs and not ruckmen I guess.

Grundy, Moore and Cox would take 10 marks per game if the chopping the arms rule was enforced.
I watched all the games this weekend and it's not just our games......It seems that some rules are forgotten and 1 case will be pulled out every once and awhile. That's just how it is when the AFL allows interpretation rather than following specific rules of the game. I note we had 4 field umpires on the weekend? The commentators were discussing this as if it was an unusual trial. Has it always been 4 umpires this year? If so, I suspect this could be why so many free kicks are missed

There is no longer in the back (hence why Adams wasn't rewarded) throwing the ball, unless it's a Collingwood player vainly attempting to handball. Someone has to teach our players that when caught...either hold or drop the ball. Don't try to handball because each time it looks like 'incorrect disposal' even though this happens 50+ times each game.

 

[30yearpie]

I've been very vocal about how good Josh Smith has been in the past 3 weeks, but yesterday's game was a real step backwards.

His issue has always been under real pressure, he can panic. It happened again yesterday, with a lot of dinky handballs, holding the ball decisions and poor kicks.

I don't think he'll be dropped on the back of one performance, but it is an issue that in really big games, he has a tendency to panic. If it were a Grand Final tomorrow, he wouldn't be in my starting 22 if Varcoe were fit.

He will definitely be dropped. Varcoe back and Goldsack the following week. I've ben a fan, but it seems that Ramsey & Smith are taking turns to decide who has the right to play as a 200 game defender.

 

[Carringbush2010]

28 points is nothing in modern footy and clearly it wasn't enough advantage

Clearly would've been if we didn't just turn off like that in the 2nd half, went back to our usual chip it around miss targets and turn over. Proof is melbourne scored 12.9 from turnovers (according to fox footy). So I'll repeat good teams don't allow that to happen, to add for this season we are 11th for disposal efficiency and 11th on the ladder and that's where we're at. Sure our numbers are very good around the ball, marks I50, F50 entries but until we fix our disposal we will not be a good team; at best mediocre and improvement can only come from that. Disposal efficiency is not just a switch and you turn it on so to be a little under stated I am not optimistic. For mine we need a skills coach that will deliver because right now it is obvious we don't

 

[Carringbush2010]

He just simply needs to be told NOT to kick it sideways

Simply needs to learn how to kick properly, what is the use of having a footballer on the field if they can't kick? Sure he wins ball but that's useless if he can't dispose of it correctly and turns it over

 

[jackcass]

Clearly would've been if we didn't just turn off like that in the 2nd half, went back to our usual chip it around miss targets and turn over. Proof is melbourne scored 12.9 from turnovers (according to fox footy). So I'll repeat good teams don't allow that to happen, to add for this season we are 11th for disposal efficiency and 11th on the ladder and that's where we're at. Sure our numbers are very good around the ball, marks I50, F50 entries but until we fix our disposal we will not be a good team; at best mediocre and improvement can only come from that. Disposal efficiency is not just a switch and you turn it on so to be a little under stated I am not optimistic. For mine we need a skills coach that will deliver because right now it is obvious we don't

Happy to agree to disagree. Clearly, if 28 points was sufficient we WOULD have won.

 

[Vankri]

Simply needs to learn how to kick properly, what is the use of having a footballer on the field if they can't kick? Sure he wins ball but that's useless if he can't dispose of it correctly and turns it over

Plenty of inside mids in the comp don't take as many risks as Adams because thy know their limitations, his are just highlighted because he tries really hard to whip fast low hanging passes or switch it sideways aiming for a player in between two opponents.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Grundy, Moore and Cox would take 10 marks per game if the chopping the arms rule was enforced.
I watched all the games this weekend and it's not just our games......It seems that some rules are forgotten and 1 case will be pulled out every once and awhile. That's just how it is when the AFL allows interpretation rather than following specific rules of the game. I note we had 4 field umpires on the weekend? The commentators were discussing this as if it was an unusual trial. Has it always been 4 umpires this year? If so, I suspect this could be why so many free kicks are missed

There is no longer in the back (hence why Adams wasn't rewarded) throwing the ball, unless it's a Collingwood player vainly attempting to handball. Someone has to teach our players that when caught...either hold or drop the ball. Don't try to handball because each time it looks like 'incorrect disposal' even though this happens 50+ times each game.

Yes agree on the arms chop, Cox gets this often as does Darcy, not so sure on Grundy - he just doesnt seem to get in the right position to mark and use his frame to protect the ball.

The inconsistency is the killer. They paid the arm chop against Dunn on the siren and cost us a goal against Melbourne, it becomes game defining and ruins the spectacle. So many were not paid before and after that one.

 

[mike123]

He will definitely be dropped. Varcoe back and Goldsack the following week. I've ben a fan, but it seems that Ramsey & Smith are taking turns to decide who has the right to play as a 200 game defender.

If Smith plays 200 games for us in defence then we're in trouble.


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[loki04]

I've posted this in the Greenwood free kick thread, worth posting here regarding Umpiring.

Excellent work Volt! Was probably many more you could of added too it was farcical umpiring display. Now the Dees fans know how Dogs fans felt last finals series (and all year) umpire wins.

The only contentious one was the high free to Tyson as he was falling down Langdon did get him high even though he was dropping could go either way with "play on" dropping/duck or paying it high as it is on the tackler to keep it below the shoulder.

 

[Kirby]

Plenty of inside mids in the comp don't take as many risks as Adams because thy know their limitations, his are just highlighted because he tries really hard to whip fast low hanging passes or switch it sideways aiming for a player in between two opponents.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Happy to agree to disagree. Clearly, if 28 points was sufficient we WOULD have won.

We didn't win because we are not good enough