Training Pre Season

[aussierulesrules]

The problem for adding a 4th smaller option to the forward line is that it's pretty obvious from the way those who play in the midfield are talking (eg Seb and most recently Armo), that with so many midfield options now, some of them are going to be rotating through the forward line and wings a lot more, meaning the likes of Stuv, Armo, Sincs and maybe Dunstan will spend more time forward.

Most here are already struggling to fit in all 23 that seem "best 22" (as in, were generally picked every week by the end of the year, or prior to injury, plus Paddy, who replaces Roo), so to fit in Lonie or any of the others, two who fit that above criteria would have to miss, and to me it's really really really hard to see who they would be. Unless injured/struggling.

I can certainly see how they might not want to play all 4 of Steele, Dunstan, Armo and Koby, for team balance, but I don't see two of them playing VFL, and then who do you leave out, Acres?

He was actually the 4th non-key position forward option for most of last season, given that that's where he played most of the time. The likes of Lonie/Long/Minch/Wright were generally a 5th.

We also had 8 "backs" for some of the year- Carlisle, Brown, Gilbert, Robbo, Gears, Joey, Webster, Savage/D-Mac/White.

Will be really interesting to see which balance we go with this year.

 

[BrutThough]

I can also see Richo playing Sinclair as a small forward at times so another midfield can play on the wing

 

[aussierulesrules]

I can also see Richo playing Sinclair as a small forward at times so another midfield can play on the wing

Yeah I noticed him forward a fair bit more in that last 3 weeks, when Seb and Stuv spent a lot of time on the wings between them.

He's one of the most obvious ones to play forward more (although he may not be a big fan of the move).

 

[luca77]

Yeah I noticed him forward a fair bit more in that last 3 weeks, when Seb and Stuv spent a lot of time on the wings between them.

He's one of the most obvious ones to play forward more (although he may not be a big fan of the move).

Happy to see Sincs up forward. Also happy to see Bruce and Paddy give it off to him by hand so he can kick it to Membrey.

 

[Mat Mann]

I'll give it a go. Just bought my first ever man bag. Now I don't know how I ever lived without one. Gonna nose around at what else these ladies have got that I might need.

Frilly knickers, Hide that unwanted panty line or tradies crack

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I'll give it a go. Just bought my first ever man bag. Now I don't know how I ever lived without one. Gonna nose around at what else these ladies have got that I might need.

Careful ,I can see you getting hooked and ending up like this

 

[Sab22]

Been a while since I have been on here, so this may be old news but will share anyway. I am hearing very good things about Ben Dixon's appointment, my source is credible. There has been a huge focus on goal kicking this pre-season as you would expect. Membrey absolutely smashing it (but no surprises there). Billings has also been on fire in goal kicking drills, and has been the 2nd most accurate kick over the pre-season. Would love to see this translate into game day. Will be a star if it does.

Finally, was also told to expect vastly improved kicking from Jack Lonie this season. They have put a lot of work into his technique. Not only has his accuracy gone through the roof, he has even managed to find another 5-10 metres in distance

Gresham, Bruce? Can they also kick straight now???

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JG22]

I can also see Richo playing Sinclair as a small forward at times so another midfield can play on the wing

I don't see the need for that

Sinclair can rotate through the wing and inside

 

[aussierulesrules]

I don't see the need for that

Sinclair can rotate through the wing and inside

But if we have say all of the following playing: Steven, Seb, Armo, Koby, Steele, Dunstan, Sincs and Newnes, that's 8, and there are only 5 midfield/wing spots on the ground at one time, and of all of them, Sincs and Stuv look the two best suited to playing forward, by a fair way, and with Stuv being our best in the midfield, it leaves Sincs as the no.1 of that lot to be playing forward, from where I'm sitting.

It's far far more likely that we'll play Sincs forward than in the middle, where we have an overabundance of options.

Unless of course he improves a significant amount in a hurry and is so good in the middle that we need him in there, and are moving other less suitable forward options forward, instead of him, to get them out of his way.

 

[saintscott]

All i know is that this is the first year for a long time where I feel like a number of our youngsters could pop up for a rising star nom. That is exciting. And not necessarily our first picks even (though i do think coffield will get one).

I'm sick of clubs like carlton thinking they have a better list due to a handful of noms

 

[sunny3193]

Mid season last year and I was taking crap because of our interchange protocols.
Rather the defence of Dunstan for not having a “tank” and therefore only getting 65% game time.
My point then, and now, was the interchange should be used as an offensive weapon. Keeping your best midfielders on for longer means your second tier midfielders are on for less.
However, that all then becomes moot once your midfielder group swells to the point where rotations also include movements forward and outside rather than just on and off the field.
And the talent spread becomes more even.

As ARR has noted, it appears we have reached such a point.

I wonder if we are able to now construct a rotation schedule that might mimic the actual schedule.

I guess we’d need to:
Identify the 22 first,
Then their nominal positions,
And their secondary positions,
The amount of game time spent in the nominal positions,
The amount of game time spent in the secondary positions,
The amount of game time spent on the pine.

Note: the combined game time across the 22 for any position would need to equal 100%.

That’s quite some algorithm.
And if each player is assigned a “value”, then the algorithm which produces the maximum team “value” would be hard to ignore.

All else being equal, if our “team value” is greater than the opposition equivalent, we should win.

Well, at least it would be a starting point......

I would not be surprised if this level of sophistication of thought is already in place as it helps explain “the champion team not team of champions” effect.

 

[VDS66]

Yeah I noticed him forward a fair bit more in that last 3 weeks, when Seb and Stuv spent a lot of time on the wings between them.

He's one of the most obvious ones to play forward more (although he may not be a big fan of the move).

You'd expect some natural evolution as well.

For example if a better option than Sincs presents on the wing, then you move him forward and he pushes a player out of the team such as Lonie. Hypothetical of course.

 

[aussierulesrules]

You'd expect some natural evolution as well.

For example if a better option than Sincs presents on the wing, then you move him forward and he pushes a player out of the team such as Lonie. Hypothetical of course.

Barring a bad injury run, there sure does look like being a big squeeze on for spots!

There are the 23 we speak about, then Lonie, who seems really close, White who looked really good in his short stint late in the year, maybe/hopefully Freeman, and that's as many as 26 or more before we even get to Coffield and Clark, not to mention others like Rice, D-Mac, Goddard, Austin, Battle and Long!

Could easily be an exciting year coming up if we have a good injury run and enough else clicks.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

But if we have say all of the following playing: Steven, Seb, Armo, Koby, Steele, Dunstan, Sincs and Newnes, that's 8, and there are only 5 midfield/wing spots on the ground at one time, and of all of them, Sincs and Stuv look the two best suited to playing forward, by a fair way, and with Stuv being our best in the midfield, it leaves Sincs as the no.1 of that lot to be playing forward, from where I'm sitting.

It's far far more likely that we'll play Sincs forward than in the middle, where we have an overabundance of options.

Unless of course he improves a significant amount in a hurry and is so good in the middle that we need him in there, and are moving other less suitable forward options forward, instead of him, to get them out of his way.

He's our best outside mid IMO.
Didn't we have champion data with meters gained etc etc.

Your post is just so 2016.

 

[aussierulesrules]

He's our best outside mid IMO.

Not if we have Seb or Stuv playing there more, because they're the best suited there out of all the main inside options who now need to find alternate homes for some of the game.

Acres could also fly past him this year if he happens to really break out, while Jack say stagnates a bit, and that could be on the wing.

I'd still have Newnes ahead of Sincs at this stage as well, but it's getting closer. Two top 6 finishes in the B&F v no top 15 finishes right there.

I think it's safe to say we saw a taste of things to come in the last few rounds and that the days of Stuv, Seb and Armo playing inside 99% of the time they're on the field are finally over.

I imagine we'll now be rotating a bunch of them through the midfield, wings, forward and back flanks, and FP, and that with Sincs being well suited to both playing forward and wing, he will be one that switches as much as any of them. Those who are least versatile will move the least.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Barring a bad injury run, there sure does look like being a big squeeze on for spots!

There are the 23 we speak about, then Lonie, who seems really close, White who looked really good in his short stint late in the year, maybe/hopefully Freeman, and that's as many as 26 or more before we even get to Coffield and Clark, not to mention others like Rice, D-Mac, Goddard, Austin, Battle and Long!

Could easily be an exciting year coming up if we have a good injury run and enough else clicks.

If we get a good injury run then we should make finals

 

[aussierulesrules]

If we get a good injury run then we should make finals

Agree, finals would be a minimum pass mark under those circumstances. That said, our draw doesn't look like it's doing us too many favours!

 

[BrutThough]

Not if we have Seb or Stuv playing there more, because they're the best suited there out of all the main inside options who now need to find alternate homes for some of the game.

Acres could also fly past him this year if he happens to really break out, while Jack say stagnates a bit, and that could be on the wing.

I'd still have Newnes ahead of Sincs at this stage as well, but it's getting closer. Two top 6 finishes in the B&F v no top 15 finishes right there.

I think it's safe to say we saw a taste of things to come in the last few rounds and that the days of Stuv, Seb and Armo playing inside 99% of the time they're on the field are finally over.

I imagine we'll now be rotating a bunch of them through the midfield, wings, forward and back flanks, and FP, and that with Sincs being well suited to both playing forward and wing, he will be one that switches as much as any of them. Those who are least versatile will move the least.

Sinclair is a better choice on the wing than Seb/Stuv/Newnes and Acres. He is a better user of the ball and has much better vision/understanding when moving the ball into the forward line than the others.

It isn't a coincidence that Sebs worst games of last year were the games where he was played on the wing. Playing on the wing could help Stuv with a tag, but I would rather play him forward and keep our best wingman in his position than moving them both to positions they are weaker in.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Agree, finals would be a minimum pass mark under those circumstances. That said, our draw doesn't look like it's doing us too many favours!

Yeah when I saw the draw my first thought was "oh no!"

In saying that we should beat WCE and North twice. We're a chance for at least 13 wins with a bit of luck

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Sinclair is a better choice on the wing than Seb/Stuv/Newnes and Acres. He is a better user of the ball and has much better vision/understanding when moving the ball into the forward line than the others.

It isn't a coincidence that Sebs worst games of last year were the games where he was played on the wing. Playing on the wing could help Stuv with a tag, but I would rather play him forward and keep our best wingman in his position than moving them both to positions they are weaker in.

Sinclair is rated elite on the wing according to Champion Data - the only player in our side who is - enough said!!

Just love his ball use - a very classy player

 

[Sheepey]

Not if we have Seb or Stuv playing there more, because they're the best suited there out of all the main inside options who now need to find alternate homes for some of the game.

Acres could also fly past him this year if he happens to really break out, while Jack say stagnates a bit, and that could be on the wing.

I'd still have Newnes ahead of Sincs at this stage as well, but it's getting closer. Two top 6 finishes in the B&F v no top 15 finishes right there.

I think it's safe to say we saw a taste of things to come in the last few rounds and that the days of Stuv, Seb and Armo playing inside 99% of the time they're on the field are finally over.

I imagine we'll now be rotating a bunch of them through the midfield, wings, forward and back flanks, and FP, and that with Sincs being well suited to both playing forward and wing, he will be one that switches as much as any of them. Those who are least versatile will move the least.

Sinclair >>>>>>> Newnes

 

[aussierulesrules]

Sinclair is a better choice on the wing than Seb/Stuv/Newnes and Acres. He is a better user of the ball and has much better vision/understanding when moving the ball into the forward line than the others.

.

That is IMO extremely debatable and flat out wrong by a long way in the case of Stuv in particular, unless Sincs improves a hell of a lot this year. And I mean a hell of a lot. And then some.

Stuv played basically the whole game on the wing in the 2nd last game (for the first time since probably Lenny retired) and absolutely monstered them out there, with 40 disposals (@87% DE, 15 contested, just 1 clanger), 412m gained, 11 clearances!, 5 tackles, 26 pressure acts, 3 goal assists, a whopping 16 score involvements, a SC score of 153, 3 Brownlow votes and I'm sure 10 coaches votes.

Sincs as talented as he is has probably never played a game like that in his dreams, let alone on a football field. If Stuv played wing all year and was left untagged like Sincs is he'd have about a million disposals and rip teams to shreds.

I'd also comfortably take Seb on a wing for the year ahead of him at this stage, not having seen how any of them are going this year. He still had 27 and 25 disposals in rounds 21 and 23, which is an average of 6 more disposals per game over Jack's season average out there.

It's also crystal-balling as to who would be better out there out of him and Blake this year, as for all we know Blake could have a big break-out this year, while Sincs may stagnate, so we'll see there.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Sinclair >>>>>>> Newnes

Newnes best B&F finishes: 5, 6, 8
Sincs 0 top 15 finishes.

 

[Flandersss]

Newnes best B&F finishes: 5, 6, 8
Sincs 0 top 15 finishes.

Fair enough.

Still prefer Sinclair delivering it into fwd 50 over anyone on our list. Besides Billings.

 

[Sheepey]

Newnes best B&F finishes: 5, 6, 8
Sincs 0 top 15 finishes.

That's essentially an appeal to authority. I believe that methodology is flawed because it takes into account other factors. For instance I wouldn't say Geary was our third best player in the year. Newnes is your standard B player, he's respectable and keeps the opponent honest, but does nothing special. He very much has a tendency to bomb it into the fifty, whereas Sinclair had the best disposal at our club. Both of their endurance capacities are exceptional.
The only area that Newnes has Sinclair beat is on defence, a facet that Sinclair has stated has been his focus this pre season. I really don't think Newnes had the best year, and he well and truly stagnated, but Sinclair was easily one of your most improved, with serious potential to keep improving, which is why he is in front of my list.