Premier Division 2021 Thread

[CliffMcTainshaw]

In my opinion very well put. The season is a waste of time in all states imo.

So Fatside, what's happening in Queensland, it doesn't sound from your response that it's much different from here.

 

[smy1305]

So Fatside, what's happening in Queensland, it doesn't sound from your response that it's much different from here.

Gday Cliff. There is certainly intent from the governing body to get a competition happening in some shape or form at varying levels. The NEAFL (which doesn't fall under AFLQ) is causing some debate as to what these players will/should do. QAFL they would love to get off the ground but the parameters being put in place, although not draconian, will make it really difficult to not just play but make a $$ on the day. Qld isn't anywhere near as bad as Vic in terms of new cases etc but there is still restrictions around the 100 people (might change), sanitation standards on game day, numbers around club house etc. Bottom line is that the costs associated with playing (and nothing like clubs in EFL as player payments are a fraction of what gets thrown around down here) matches is not worth the effort imo. There is no way anyone will be able to break even at best for a comp that might be 10 games + finals - really?? Its just a social outing in this case and nothing to do with competition. Not why blokes play at that level. My concern is that the governing bodies motivation is possibly more around justifying own jobs and getting paid vs whats best for the individual clubs. Might be overly cynical about that but I cant see why there is a major push to get it off the ground when everyone knows its a simplified comp at best that will hurt clubs financially.
2021 will see major reductions to costs in terms of salary caps, infrastructure around the comps too (like 2 field umps vs 3 at QAFL level) I am predicting. Not necessarily a bad thing tbh.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

The West Australian has an article today about the Perth Football League (ex-WA Amateurs).
They are starting on July 18 with a nine-round season.
Final 4 instead of 5.
Finals to be knockout like cricket (no double chance)
No promotion or relegation.

Most of the WA country leagues are close to announcing similar scenarios.

Seems as though Mark McGowan got it right with his policies - he's got it so that a suburban league can beat the AFL to giving an outline for their season LOL.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

My concern is that the governing bodies motivation is possibly more around justifying own jobs and getting paid vs whats best for the individual clubs. Might be overly cynical about that but I cant see why there is a major push to get it off the ground when everyone knows its a simplified comp at best that will hurt clubs financially.
2021 will see major reductions to costs in terms of salary caps, infrastructure around the comps too (like 2 field umps vs 3 at QAFL level) I am predicting. Not necessarily a bad thing tbh.

I have come to the same conclusion. The only reason AFL Victoria and the Metro and Country Comps are keeping the hope of playing on offer is because if they shut down play for this year, then they won't have a job. They will string everyone along, keeping the hope of playing going for as long as possible, simply to ensure they have a job for as long as possible. Self interest is the greatest motivator of peoples actions.
I am hoping that salary caps will be reduced significantly for next year.

 

[Voice of the G]

Gday Cliff. There is certainly intent from the governing body to get a competition happening in some shape or form at varying levels. The NEAFL (which doesn't fall under AFLQ) is causing some debate as to what these players will/should do. QAFL they would love to get off the ground but the parameters being put in place, although not draconian, will make it really difficult to not just play but make a $$ on the day. Qld isn't anywhere near as bad as Vic in terms of new cases etc but there is still restrictions around the 100 people (might change), sanitation standards on game day, numbers around club house etc. Bottom line is that the costs associated with playing (and nothing like clubs in EFL as player payments are a fraction of what gets thrown around down here) matches is not worth the effort imo. There is no way anyone will be able to break even at best for a comp that might be 10 games + finals - really?? Its just a social outing in this case and nothing to do with competition. Not why blokes play at that level. My concern is that the governing bodies motivation is possibly more around justifying own jobs and getting paid vs whats best for the individual clubs. Might be overly cynical about that but I cant see why there is a major push to get it off the ground when everyone knows its a simplified comp at best that will hurt clubs financially.
2021 will see major reductions to costs in terms of salary caps, infrastructure around the comps too (like 2 field umps vs 3 at QAFL level) I am predicting. Not necessarily a bad thing tbh.

I agree with you,on the local scene can you or your brother elaborate on the situation at East Rinwood F C at the moment.As you remember in the old days I kept going on about the big 4,Vermont,East Ringwood,Noble Park and East Burwood about the excess dollars they were paying for players.We now know 2 of those clubs have fallen by the way side and the $$$$$ required by clubs to meet these overpaid players are the reason.

 

[smy1305]

I agree with you,on the local scene can you or your brother elaborate on the situation at East Rinwood F C at the moment.As you remember in the old days I kept going on about the big 4,Vermont,East Ringwood,Noble Park and East Burwood about the excess dollars they were paying for players.We now know 2 of those clubs have fallen by the way side and the $$$$$ required by clubs to meet these overpaid players are the reason.

Nah know zip.

 

[Moody Blue]

Had a chat to a co committee man the other night and were to believe that with some of the leagues requirements for the season coming up might make it impossible for any footy to be played under those restrictions. No crowds to be admitted no social functions, no after training gatherings, still fees to be paid....basically no chance for clubs to generate income, and I’d assume if clubs do have any money set aside, they’d not want to waste it on a season that is likely to be severely shortened. Also the fact the league still wants to institute relegation and promotion is short sighted. Even if the season goes ahead, the highly decreased salary cap would see a lot of players choose the chance to work instead of play for nearly nothing would impact numbers at most clubs. There are so many issues surrounding this season I can’t possibly see a fair and equitable season being able to begin. I might be on my own but I’d rather see one season affected now than seeing multiple season and many clubs affected for the foreseeable future. That’s my opinion, be interested to hear the others if anyone’s out there.

The season is dead and buried. Great opportunity for the leagues to use the time to promote and participate in a full on carnival with other competitions. Televise the games. Get people interested in footy again.

 

[Moody Blue]

I agree with you,on the local scene can you or your brother elaborate on the situation at East Rinwood F C at the moment.As you remember in the old days I kept going on about the big 4,Vermont,East Ringwood,Noble Park and East Burwood about the excess dollars they were paying for players.We now know 2 of those clubs have fallen by the way side and the $$$$$ required by clubs to meet these overpaid players are the reason.

Two of those clubs had/have access to pokie money. I wonder how the recent lockdowns will affect them? I am certain it will bring them back to the rest of the field, as pokie venues are not expected to open until late October possibly even next year. It is going to be tough for a lot of clubs in the next 2-3 years in terms of finding businesses that will sponsor clubs, and the likelihood that a lot of players may be forced to work instead of play footy. The really good players will always attract payments. How much is yet to be determined. It is the middle tier players who were getting good money who may be in for a rude shock.

 

[Voice of the G]

Two of those clubs had/have access to pokie money. I wonder how the recent lockdowns will affect them? I am certain it will bring them back to the rest of the field, as pokie venues are not expected to open until late October possibly even next year. It is going to be tough for a lot of clubs in the next 2-3 years in terms of finding businesses that will sponsor clubs, and the likelihood that a lot of players may be forced to work instead of play footy. The really good players will always attract payments. How much is yet to be determined. It is the middle tier players who were getting good money who may be in for a rude shock.

I would say a high percentage of clubs have non/pokie hotels as sponsors which must be a concern for all clubs.

 

[localfootyman_7]

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

More info on the previous post by localfootyman. Worth reading.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/2Flocalfooty/suburban-football-clubs-and-coaches-were-not-impressed-by-afl-victorias-return-to-training-plan/news-story/d466df81080430978642e0e43536e9e3

 

[Come on Cents]

If you want to make things work safely you can. Doesn't take much thought to say 'Too hard'

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

If you want to make things work safely you can. Doesn't take much thought to say 'Too hard'

Yeah, those coaches wouldn't know anything.

 

[Noodles Magee]

I agree with you,on the local scene can you or your brother elaborate on the situation at East Rinwood F C at the moment.As you remember in the old days I kept going on about the big 4,Vermont,East Ringwood,Noble Park and East Burwood about the excess dollars they were paying for players.We now know 2 of those clubs have fallen by the way side and the $$$$$ required by clubs to meet these overpaid players are the reason.

I can name you another club that paid overs for a couple of years, lost a division 1 prelim and then dropped 2 divisions in consecutive years. There is no issue at ER. If you are referring to the licensed venue on Mt Dandenong Rd the footy club is completely independent of them, deriving no revenue.

 

[dgball]

I have come to the same conclusion. The only reason AFL Victoria and the Metro and Country Comps are keeping the hope of playing on offer is because if they shut down play for this year, then they won't have a job. They will string everyone along, keeping the hope of playing going for as long as possible, simply to ensure they have a job for as long as possible. Self interest is the greatest motivator of peoples actions.
I am hoping that salary caps will be reduced significantly for next year.

I think you are being a bit harsh here. For e.g. AFL Outer East surveyed players and clubs and had a large percentage wanting to play. Most of AFL Vic and metro and country league staff work on what is best for footy. They are not high paid executives motivated by self interest. They are not rushing a return to footy but are working through the protocols for a safe return (and one that the Govt will support). From what I hear there are not a lot of these officials still working, so stringing everyone along isn't/hasn't been factually valid.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Yes,the EFNL surveyed the clubs on April 15th, with 44% of clubs wanting to cancel the season then. I wouldn't call that a large percentage wanting to play. Most clubs concerns were about finances and without any crowds you wouldn't think those worries would be lessened. If you think the officials that are still there are not being well paid and would like to continue to be paid you are mistaken.

 

[dgball]

Yes,the EFNL surveyed the clubs on April 15th, with 44% of clubs wanting to cancel the season then. I wouldn't call that a large percentage wanting to play. Most clubs concerns were about finances and without any crowds you wouldn't think those worries would be lessened. If you think the officials that are still there are not being well paid and would like to continue to be paid you are mistaken.

My main thought was that it was unfair to accuse officials of stringing us along so they could keep their jobs, when Leagues I am familiar with have already laid off staff and the one person remaining is not a high paid executive. Of course those still there want to keep being paid, but I suspect that will happen regardless of whether this season gets started or not. I get a bit tired of posts that bag League officials without really knowing the people and what they do. There is no doubt that playing without crowds, without gate, bar and canteen income and the ability to have functions will be a financial disaster. That is why 44% of EFNL clubs would like to cancel the season. I don't know if the EFNL surveyed players or not, but AFL Outer East did. Most responders wanted to play and that was a major factor in the League deciding to try and continue with playing in 2020. It may or may not happen but I think those accusing officials of working on this option for their own self interest are just plain wrong. (I might add that the survey results need to take into account that fact that players who don't want to play are less likely to be bothered with doing the survey)

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

My main thought was that it was unfair to accuse officials of stringing us along so they could keep their jobs, when Leagues I am familiar with have already laid off staff and the one person remaining is not a high paid executive. Of course those still there want to keep being paid, but I suspect that will happen regardless of whether this season gets started or not. I get a bit tired of posts that bag League officials without really knowing the people and what they do. There is no doubt that playing without crowds, without gate, bar and canteen income and the ability to have functions will be a financial disaster. That is why 44% of EFNL clubs would like to cancel the season. I don't know if the EFNL surveyed players or not, but AFL Outer East did. Most responders wanted to play and that was a major factor in the League deciding to try and continue with playing in 2020. It may or may not happen but I think those accusing officials of working on this option for their own self interest are just plain wrong. (I might add that the survey results need to take into account that fact that players who don't want to play are less likely to be bothered with doing the survey)

This was clubs not players. This survey was taken before the no spectators ruling was brought in.
https://efnl.org.au/covid-19-update-april-15/
As far as the officals go,we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Voice of the G]

This was clubs not players. This survey was taken before the no spectators ruling was brought in.
https://efnl.org.au/covid-19-update-april-15/
As far as the officals go,we will have to agree to disagree.

With the GVFL and a lot of country football leagues they are run by very few paid officials in some cases presidents doing the job on a voluntary basis unlike metro competitions.With the survey by both the EDFNL and Outer Eastern F L if the players in April were asked to vote I am sure most would vote to play so I question the votes by both competitions and surely it would be the presidents that gave you those figures.

If the players want to play I ask the following questions:-

1 Would you play for nothing and even pay to play.I know 1 D4 club last season that had on their notice board over due fees similar to cricket club that pay subs approx of $400 a year.

2 Only early days but it seems life will not go back to normal till at least October if not later.Volunteers,we struggle to get them now and they talk of a Covid Officer (who would want that job) some one to clean rooms after every game,some one to count how many are in the ground,people to stop people jumping fences if there are crowd restrictions and as for clubs that do not have fences how do you enforce that one.

Any way perhaps Daniel Andrews will announce end of May,every thing back to normal but not sure all clubs will return to that this season at the moment.Some tough times ahead for our presidents with what Andrews announce at the end of this month.

 

[smy1305]

With the GVFL and a lot of country football leagues they are run by very few paid officials in some cases presidents doing the job on a voluntary basis unlike metro competitions.With the survey by both the EDFNL and Outer Eastern F L if the players in April were asked to vote I am sure most would vote to play so I question the votes by both competitions and surely it would be the presidents that gave you those figures.

If the players want to play I ask the following questions:-

1 Would you play for nothing and even pay to play.I know 1 D4 club last season that had on their notice board over due fees similar to cricket club that pay subs approx of $400 a year.

2 Only early days but it seems life will not go back to normal till at least October if not later.Volunteers,we struggle to get them now and they talk of a Covid Officer (who would want that job) some one to clean rooms after every game,some one to count how many are in the ground,people to stop people jumping fences if there are crowd restrictions and as for clubs that do not have fences how do you enforce that one.

Any way perhaps Daniel Andrews will announce end of May,every thing back to normal but not sure all clubs will return to that this season at the moment.Some tough times ahead for our presidents with what Andrews announce at the end of this month.

Are presidents paid in the EfNL?

 

[Voice of the G]

Are presidents paid in the EfNL?

I thought Fatside Cliff would have replied to your question while I did the research ,lol.My understanding with the EFNL they had up to 6 if not more paid employees whether that be full time or part time,as for the president I would say paid.Graham Halbish I presume as chairman would not be paid.I have found the annual report for the then EFL in 2018 and employee costs were $628,367.What happens in your competition up there with these comps admin costs.With country competitions in Victoria a" few presidents" get paid I have been told and perhaps a assistant.PS.To the Cliff knockers I for the one of the few times in the last 20 years agree with him,are some of our leagues trying to drag this out as long as they can to save their jobs and I do not blame them.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

No Moods they are not paid ‘presidents’. The old fella is having another moment & not comprehending well tonight.

 

[Voice of the G]

No Moods they are not paid ‘presidents’. The old fella is having another moment & not comprehending well tonight.

If you having a crack at me please re read my posts carefully.Whether the president is being paid or not does not matter but the figures I have quoted you are in 2018 the employee payments were $628,367
And Bob while you have fired me up please check out the Walker Park Re development which is now finished.I reckon even you will be saying this ground is the MCG of the East,lol.Hope you are well and lets hope life gets better for all of us including us lovers of sports.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

G you are on a different train. The question is clearly referring to CLUB presidents (plural).
The league hasn’t had a president this century? Chairman, Footy Operations, etc are the terms used these days

 

[Voice of the G]

G you are on a different train. The question is clearly referring to CLUB presidents (plural).
The league hasn’t had a president this century? Chairman, Footy Operations, etc are the terms used these days

I apologise perhaps the term president should have read CEO

So CEO Troy Swainston,GMFO Dyson Baker,Com Man Mark Freeman,Netball Admin.Petra Keogh ,EFNL Junior President position vacant and Media Manager Daniel Cedric are surely all paid plus the girl behind the counter at EDFN.In the country leagues we have no where near that staff and in some cases presidents doing it on their own for little remuneration and little help.

As for "club presidents" none are paid and most likely most are paying out of their own pocket being club presidents and these are the guys plus their committees that will decide whether we have a season,not our leagues and not our players.