Discussion Prison Bars debate

Should Port be allowed to wear the PBs as their home jumper?


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El_Scorcho

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I find it strange that Collingwood fans are so worried about this.

The idea that Collingwood might be affected by this in any way is laughable. Surely Collingwood are a big enough club that it doesn't really matter what anyone else wears? Why are you so paranoid about another wearing a different guernsey design?

It doesn't bother Barcelona when Levante wear deep blue and red stripes. It doesn't bother Manchester United when Briston City or Middlesbrough wear red.

Is Collingwood's brand so weak that it could be negatively impacted by anything Port Adelaide does?

Every other sporting club in the world is allowed to wear the home uniform of it's choice. This isn't a complicated problem.
 

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El_Scorcho

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Port agreed to it as a term of theie entry into the comp. Some fans may be too young to remember it, but it's a fact.

They can wear the PB in the SANFL or wherever else they please, but they're being expected to honour the agreement they freely entered into.

Collingwood is agree legitimate stakeholderand of course have a position on the matter.

If PA want to try to renegotiate then of course that's fine, but the air of entitlement from some fans is simply misplaced.
Yep, and we also had an agreement with the Collingwood president at the time that if we finished above them for 3 consecutive seasons, we could have the Black and White back. We did so in our first 5 years in the AFL.

Why don't Collingwood have to honour that agreement?
 

El_Scorcho

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I'm a little bit torn on this issue. I feel for Port and how they're being cut off from their heritage due to another club.

But on the other hand, an agreement was made and a trademark is a trademark.
You can't trademark colours in a sporting competition, but more importantly, Collingwood don't even hold their own trademarks. The AFL own the rights to all branding used by the clubs.
 

El_Scorcho

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How so?
Port Adelaide Power only came in to the AFL in 1997 If I recall correctly.

No matter how much the supporters wish they were still the Magpies it will never be.
As previously stated when Port Power first came in they agreed on a few things. Blame your people then, not everyone else.
Has even a single person asked for Port Adelaide to be called the Magpies during this debate?

Maybe understand what you're even arguing about before you come into a threat guns blazing hey?
 

El_Scorcho

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Get over it. Your club agreed to not wear the PB in the AFL. You traded culture, history, your nick name and your heart for the sweet dollars on offer in the AFL.

You sold your souls to the devil then piss and moan wondering why bad things happen to you
This is the dumbest argument that anyone has posted on the matter.

If we'd moved to the WAFL or the VFL because there were big dollars on offer, fine. It's another state league. That isn't what happened though.

We moved to the AFL because it's the highest level of football we're able to play in. Being a big fish in a small pond wasn't particularly satisfying when there was a national league we had the capability to join and compete in.

To argue it's for the money is bizarre and completely out of step with the facts. There certainly aren't rivers of gold in the AFL, we had to work incredibly hard to get to a point where we were even comfortably solvent.
 

Klim

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I find it strange that Collingwood fans are so worried about this.

The idea that Collingwood might be affected by this in any way is laughable. Surely Collingwood are a big enough club that it doesn't really matter what anyone else wears? Why are you so paranoid about another wearing a different guernsey design?

It doesn't bother Barcelona when Levante wear deep blue and red stripes. It doesn't bother Manchester United when Briston City or Middlesbrough wear red.

Is Collingwood's brand so weak that it could be negatively impacted by anything Port Adelaide does?

Every other sporting club in the world is allowed to wear the home uniform of it's choice. This isn't a complicated problem.
I think it's more of an Eddie problem than a Collingwood problem. I would think that Collingwood supporters wouldn't mind Port wearing black and white but that's just my opinion. I really don't have a voice on this debate as I'm not that educated in this matter.
 

El_Scorcho

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Bit off-topic, but I'm not sure I accept the argument that "Port had to join the AFL to remain financially viable". What made Port any better or more deserving than other strong traditional clubs like East Freo and Norwood? Going by that same logic, wouldn't they also have had to join the national league? Instead of going behind the back of their traditional leagues, they stayed put, and as such were able to retain their identities.
I'm still in support of returning the Prison Bars, I just don't agree with that argument.
Port did what it took to get the club into the National League. I'm not really knowledgeable about the WA situation, but Norwood could certainly be playing AFL footy today if things had gone even slightly differently.

Port get into the AFL in 1990, Norwood would have been the next club in. Norwood buckled under pressure, sided with the SANFL and consigned themselves to a 2nd tier existence for good. I'd genuinely have preferred that more famous old state league clubs joined the AFL like Port did.
 

El_Scorcho

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Port Power and Port Adelaide Magpies are (or at least we’re) two completely different entities that played in two different competitions.

One Club was born in 1870 evolving into the magpies and eventually settling on the PB as it’s jumper in the 1950s. A natural progression from a club representing the suburbs around port adelaide.

The other Club was born in 1997. It was a soulless corporation which chose the “power” moniker, to ditch the PB design in favour of the SBS jumper, the colour teal and the logo because marketing and focus groups said it appeals more to kids.

Basically, what I’m saying is the Power don’t deserve to honour the SANFL Port history. The Power are a soulless corporation derived to appeal to a new market to maximise profits. It’s a plastic club. Always has, and always will be. No amount of “just let us wear the PB” whinging is gonna change that.

Even if you dispute my “Power aren’t the real Port” claim, Ports first jumper (blue and white hoops) celebrates its 150 season in 2019. That’s the jumper you should be advocating for. Not the PB which will celebrate its 150th season in 2051.

Port won flags in other colours and jumper styles over the years but you Power fans never want to acknowledge those Port teams, colours or jumper styles. I think that’s very strange.

Your greatest accomplishment was achieved in the SBS and still you bang on about the PB. The PB has nothing to do with the Power, still you bang on about the PB. The PB is worn by the SANFL Port Magpies every week, and still you bang on about the Power wearing the PB.

You surely realise, in 20 years, your fans will care more for the SBS 04 and the Vs jumpers than they will for the PB worn by the reserves team? Because the SBS and Vs is what they will have grown up with.
Ah, a Power aren't the real Port argument. I see we've time warped to 2005.

A 150th celebration isn't just about our first year, it's about the entire 150 years, and we've won 30 odd premierships in the Prison Bars, so they'll be front and centre. We've won premierships in several different jumpers because we're a very old and very successful club. The vast majority of that success has come in the Prison Bar guernsey.

If we were allowed to properly honour our most famous guernsey, we probably wouldn't be up in arms about it every 5 minutes and we'd be happy enough to wear other historic Port guernseys on special occasions. As it stands, there's only one guernsey we want to wear.
 

bomberclifford

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Your greatest accomplishment was achieved in the SBS and still you bang on about the PB. The PB has nothing to do with the Power, still you bang on about the PB. The PB is worn by the SANFL Port Magpies every week, and still you bang on about the Power wearing the PB.
We smashed Richmond in an AFL Elimination Final wearing the PBs in 2014.
 

TY24

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When I think of clubs I think of their senior team and Port's senior team have only worn the bars for 77 years.
Oh damn, only 77 years. Better pack up shop then guys, it's only been traditional for 3 quarters of a century, not a full century. Bugger.

What a ridiculous argument.
 

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barrackers

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That doesn't sound right.

1870 to 1902 is 32 years.

Between 1997 and 2019 is 22 years (ignoring for a moment the fact that not wearing the PBs in the AFL wasn't our choosing and that the guernsey was still attached to the club via the Port Adelaide Magpies in the SANFL)

That's 54 years.

Around 1940 we wore black and white stripes, without the top bar, similar to Collingwood's guernsey. (in fact Collingwood gave us guernseys in 1951 for the Jubilee)



Regardless, the main thing is this: 30 odd premierships were won wearing the PBs. Surely that's what counts.
It doesn’t sound right because you’ve ignored the rest of the conversation. Read over what I’ve already explained.
 

barrackers

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Oh damn, only 77 years. Better pack up shop then guys, it's only been traditional for 3 quarters of a century, not a full century. Bugger.

What a ridiculous argument.
If you look at it from a statistical point of view the nearly three quarters of a century they haven’t worn bars for is significant. What a ridiculous argument to count just over half their years and ignore the rest.
 

TY24

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If you look at it from a statistical point of view the nearly three quarters of a century they haven’t worn bars for is significant. What a ridiculous argument to count just over half their years and ignore the rest.
If you look at it from a statistical point of view then they've used the same basic jumper design for over 50% of their existence, compared to all of their other jumper designs which probably existed for 20% of their existence or less each, with many of them being below 10% (just at a rough guess)

Your argument couldn't be weaker if you tried.

You might as well be suggesting that Manchester United's traditional colours aren't red and black because they used to wear green and yellow at some point a million years ago.

A clubs traditional colours are decided by what their supporters resonate most with and how people identify the club. For 99% of Port fans, that is the black and white bars.

West Coast wore the tri panel design at home for 15 years and have worn the wings at home for 16 years, which one do you think we consider our 'traditional strip'?
 

Dazzler10

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It doesn’t sound right because you’ve ignored the rest of the conversation. Read over what I’ve already explained.
Can you explain it to me please barrackers ? I read over your posts and don't understand what you mean. It looks to me like Port have worn the PBs (and a variation during wartimes) from 1902 until 1996.
 

TY24

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There is absolutely no similarity between the uniforms, so what's the problem?

The main issue now is that Collingwood wear white stripes on a black jumper, not black stripes on a white jumper.

And that Collingwood are exceedingly arrogant, of course.
 

Bwillow11

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Before I start, I need to get something out of the way. I am a Collingwood fan.


I think everyone rational on this board can agree that the Port Adelaide Power are the same as the Port Adelaide Magpies who played before 1997. I think we can all admit too that Collingwood made a deal with PA, and then broke it. But at the end of the day, the AFL have the final say.

Technically, both the teams wear the same uniform. They both wear variations of stripes. And too be honest, I don't think the AFL can afford to have two teams wearing similar things if they want to take this game global. You may bring up Geelong and North Melbourne as two teams in a similar situation, but there is a pretty clear difference between stripes that run vertically and hoops which run horizontally.

Many Port Adelaide fans will bring up history as reasoning for why they should be able to wear the prison bars. While PA wore the prison bars from 1902 onwards, Collingwood has never worn anything other than their black and white stripes since 1892. Be it a black-base, white-base, or whatever, Collingwood has worn the same thing for 127 years, while Port Adelaide has for 79 years (no research has gone into this, just from other posters).

While I am not against Port Adelaide wearing it as a one off, I feel strongly about them taking it up full time.
 

bomberclifford

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Before I start, I need to get something out of the way. I am a Collingwood fan.


I think everyone rational on this board can agree that the Port Adelaide Power are the same as the Port Adelaide Magpies who played before 1997. I think we can all admit too that Collingwood made a deal with PA, and then broke it. But at the end of the day, the AFL have the final say.

Technically, both the teams wear the same uniform. They both wear variations of stripes. And too be honest, I don't think the AFL can afford to have two teams wearing similar things if they want to take this game global. You may bring up Geelong and North Melbourne as two teams in a similar situation, but there is a pretty clear difference between stripes that run vertically and hoops which run horizontally.

Many Port Adelaide fans will bring up history as reasoning for why they should be able to wear the prison bars. While PA wore the prison bars from 1902 onwards, Collingwood has never worn anything other than their black and white stripes since 1892. Be it a black-base, white-base, or whatever, Collingwood has worn the same thing for 127 years, while Port Adelaide has for 79 years (no research has gone into this, just from other posters).

While I am not against Port Adelaide wearing it as a one off, I feel strongly about them taking it up full time.

I think you'll find that most Port supporters aren't pushing for full-time PBs.

The issue we have is that another club appears to be dictating what we can and can't wear for our 150th celebration.

It shouldn't even be an issue.
 

TY24

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I don't think the AFL can afford to have two teams wearing similar things if they want to take this game global.
Have you ever heard of the global brands of Arsenal and Manchester United? They both wear variations of red and white.
Everton and Chelsea both wear variations of blue and white.
 

Bwillow11

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Have you ever heard of the global brands of Arsenal and Manchester United? They both wear variations of red and white.
Everton and Chelsea both wear variations of blue and white.
Soccer is a different case altogether. 95% of the world would know these teams and their colours, compared to 0.002% of the world who might know an AFL club. Soccer couldn't care less if the other 5 percent was confused by two teams with the same colours, but for the AFL, every knew fan counts and matters.
 
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