Official Club Stuff Questions/suggestions for RFC_Official (part 2)

[TheLoungeLizard]

I know the numbers wont be finalized yet, but any idea of any changes now?
Or has that not even been thought about with the draft and all.

 

[RFC_Official]

I know the numbers wont be finalized yet, but any idea of any changes now?
Or has that not even been thought about with the draft and all.

Few people have got their numbers, but there arent many changes.
I think we're announcing them all at once after the draft.

 

[theflea]

Stig we need to find out what our FD expenditure is in real terms(not rubbery accounting figures) compared to other clubs as Tigerbob stated we are 10th but I thought that was 2 years earlier. I would like to know where we sit now. It is important to know where the clubs hard earned efforts by all are going and clarified.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Stig we need to find out what our FD expenditure is in real terms(not rubbery accounting figures) compared to other clubs as Tigerbob stated we are 10th but I thought that was 2 years earlier. I would like to know where we sit now. It is important to know where the clubs hard earned efforts by all are going and clarified.

JFYI we have discussed this a fair bit previously on the footy industry board. The problem is no club includes all the same stuff in their "footys ops exp" details in their annual reports. Wookies charts at the top of the board detail the info pretty well, but its impossible to compare apples with apples

 

[theflea]

JFYI we have discussed this a fair bit previously on the footy industry board. The problem is no club includes all the same stuff in their "footys ops exp" details in their annual reports. Wookies charts at the top of the board detail the info pretty well, but its impossible to compare apples with apples

Yep seen all of those, but the clubs know exactly where they are and what each other consider the same inclusions( regardless of where they are accounted for), hence how do the clubs know where they sit in this regard?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yep seen all of those, but the clubs know exactly where they are and what each other consider the same inclusions( regardless of where they are accounted for), hence how do the clubs know where they sit in this regard?

they don't though, they make assumptions. at the end of the day they only have access to the annual reports, info provided to the AFL, and anecdotal stuff. Part of the reason clubs account for this stuff differently is to try to disclose where the funds are going

 

[theflea]

they don't though, they make assumptions. at the end of the day they only have access to the annual reports, info provided to the AFL, and anecdotal stuff. Part of the reason clubs account for this stuff differently is to try to disclose where the funds are going

I don't believe that, particularly from an internal AFL perspective. I know the reports are fluffy, but they are so rubbery how can even compare them at all? They must do it some how. The point being I want to know where we are in relation to FD spending, as we have stated we know where we are in relation to the other clubs( even in this report), even if they are a bit vague. It is a fair question imo.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I don't believe that, particularly from an internal AFL perspective. I know the reports are fluffy, but they are so rubbery how can even compare them at all? They must do it some how. The point being I want to know where we are in relation to FD spending, as we have stated we know where we are in relation to the other clubs( even in this report), even if they are a bit vague. It is a fair question imo.

it came down to what clubs considered "footy ops" costs. Some included players, some didn't. Some included facilities, some didn't.

The change is the new luxury tax, where clubs need to be operating below a certain level to avoid the tax. As I've posted previously, I expect a lot of clubs to start shifting costs out of footy ops to other parts of their operations to get around this.

 

[theflea]

it came down to what clubs considered "footy ops" costs. Some included players, some didn't. Some included facilities, some didn't.

The change is the new luxury tax, where clubs need to be operating below a certain level to avoid the tax. As I've posted previously, I expect a lot of clubs to start shifting costs out of footy ops to other parts of their operations to get around this.

I know the argument mate, that's not what I asked. I know the potential funny accountancy and all that, but from what we can see even the top spending clubs will endeavour to be under the spending cap, so largely this will be avoided. The simple fact is, we will internally know where we stand and I think we should know as well. Not sure why your arguing with me, as I understand what your saying but frankly you cant answer my question. I get you don't think we can know the real answers but frankly I think the club does and should tell us.

Here is an example of what I'm saying. How can the treasurer state this if the figures are so debateable( this years financial report)?

In an environment where debt levels across the AFL clubs continues to increase, the Club remains
debt free despite the significant investments made in adequately resourcing the business. This has

allowed the Club to achieve the stated objective of continuing to bridge the gap with other clubs and

therefore providing the best opportunity for future on field success.
As at 31 October 2014:
• The Club has a Net Asset Position of $23,712,742 (2013: $22,383,212). In 2005 our financial

statements reflected a Net Asset Deficiency of $704,000. This represents a significant
improvement in the Club’s core financial position. It also reflects the Club’s continued
investment in its Punt Road Oval base. Following the redevelopment of our core facilities, and
the reconstruction of our oval, the Club during 2014 significantly upgraded the spectator
facilities available at Punt Road Oval for the benefit of our Richmond family and the broader
community. Significantly, the Board remains resolute in building a liquid asset base and to
forever protect the Club from entering into an operating debt position in the future, an
ambitious but critical issue given our past.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I know the argument mate, that's not what I asked. I know the potential funny accountancy and all that, but from what we can see even the top spending clubs will endeavour to be under the spending cap, so largely this will be avoided. The simple fact is, we will internally know where we stand and I think we should know as well. Not sure why your arguing with me, as I understand what your saying but frankly you cant answer my question. I get you don't think we can know the real answers but frankly I think the club does and should tell us.

Here is an example of what I'm saying. How can the treasurer state this if the figures are so debateable( this years financial report)?

In an environment where debt levels across the AFL clubs continues to increase, the Club remains
debt free despite the significant investments made in adequately resourcing the business. This has

allowed the Club to achieve the stated objective of continuing to bridge the gap with other clubs and

therefore providing the best opportunity for future on field success.
As at 31 October 2014:
• The Club has a Net Asset Position of $23,712,742 (2013: $22,383,212). In 2005 our financial

statements reflected a Net Asset Deficiency of $704,000. This represents a significant
improvement in the Club’s core financial position. It also reflects the Club’s continued
investment in its Punt Road Oval base. Following the redevelopment of our core facilities, and
the reconstruction of our oval, the Club during 2014 significantly upgraded the spectator
facilities available at Punt Road Oval for the benefit of our Richmond family and the broader
community. Significantly, the Board remains resolute in building a liquid asset base and to
forever protect the Club from entering into an operating debt position in the future, an
ambitious but critical issue given our past.

Again, this is based upon them making assumptions based upon the available info

Let me ask you, how does the club know what clubs are spending when this info isn't itemized, and more importantly, it's confidential?

 

[RFC_Official]

Yeah your back and forth is a good point. The "footy department spend" articles won't come out till Dec/Jan because thats when all the annual reports have come out and someone will go through and compare apples to oranges. The "footy department" spend is a bit hit and miss.

 

[Hot tigers]

Flea i know what your getting at, the reason they all report diffeently is to leave conjecture... Then the likes of Gale etc need to look at many expense lines and work through that way confusing issues when you actually dump costs in difference expense lines etc etc..

I would agree that the AFL should know the exact numbers for each club especially as they are seeking to cap this, i would assume that they would have a team of accountants that would communicate club by club to decipher... dagger-cloaks, screen-smoke... all part of the corporate comedy

 

[theflea]

Again, this is based upon them making assumptions based upon the available info

Let me ask you, how does the club know what clubs are spending when this info isn't itemized, and more importantly, it's confidential?

Well that's the point isn't it. How do they know how to rank them?

 

[theflea]

Flea i know what your getting at, the reason they all report diffeently is to leave conjecture... Then the likes of Gale etc need to look at many expense lines and work through that way confusing issues when you actually dump costs in difference expense lines etc etc..

I would agree that the AFL should know the exact numbers for each club especially as they are seeking to cap this, i would assume that they would have a team of accountants that would communicate club by club to decipher... dagger-cloaks, screen-smoke... all part of the corporate comedy

Exactly. I know there is smoke screens everywhere, we all get that, but ultimately the afl rank everything, even if the figures are rubbery. With the new cap, the afl must be able to discern what is rubbish or not to at least a reasonable plus/minus. My point in all of this discussion is, are we financing our FD well enough (compared to other clubs), and we now rely on the skill of the coaches and players or are we underfunded still and need to pay more for better skilled operators or methadologies?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well that's the point isn't it. How do they know how to rank them?

They make assumptions, but these are just guesses. After all, when some clubs include infrastructure and some don't, you are getting big variances

Anyway who cares what the "rank" is? The more important question is what staff, facilities, programs and so on do we need to spend more on and why. Chasing the me too strategy has NORF training in Utah, primarily so they can say they are doing as much as others are. Fact it probably isn't worth the cost though gets ignored, it increases the footy dept spend so it must be good

 

[theflea]

They make assumptions, but these are just guesses. After all, when some clubs include infrastructure and some don't, you are getting big variances

Anyway who cares what the "rank" is? The more important question is what staff, facilities, programs and so on do we need to spend more on and why. Chasing the me too strategy has Norf (read the Mofra's Bottom 50 thread NOW!) training in Utah, primarily so they can say they are doing as much as others are. Fact it probably isn't worth the cost though gets ignored, it increases the footy dept spend so it must be good

Exactly. See my post above for last paragraph.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Exactly. See my post above for last paragraph.

Then why are you wetting yourself about what our rank is?

 

[theflea]

Then why are you wetting yourself about what our rank is?

What, as opposed to your crapping on about what we all know isn't perfect accounting? It was a simple question and it was answered in kind by stig. Your the 1 who has made a big deal about it, not me.

 

[tigs2010]

When will the club release the list of players that will be training with them?
After the main draft?

There is barely a gap between the 2 drafts these days. Not sure anyone will be there outside VFL guys

 

[DrMike]

Please keep discussion out of this thread. Defeats the purpose of having it here.

 

[theflea]

Please keep discussion out of this thread. Defeats the purpose of having it here.

I agree. It was a simple question and was answered promptly by stig. No discussion needed.

 

[Groupie_]

I think we should complain about this RFC_Official .. They've been slowly and slowly getting darker every year. They're basically copying our colours now because they're ashamed of the poo poo brown that they should be using

 

[mondi]

Haha it's completely black! Where are these taken? they must be promotional items maybe for Tassie?

 

[Groupie_]

Haha it's completely black! Where are these taken? they must be promotional items maybe for Tassie?

Got em off the footy graphic design board

 

[captain cotch 9]

Does Hammish Mcglaughlan go for the tigers?
Or is he just good mates with Cotch?