Quigley's Mock (Very Long)

[High Ryder]

Up into the forwardline or elsewhere? McPhee could probably play as a decent forward flanker.

Knights has said he wants to play Mcphee on the Wing or a forward flank.

Myers wouldn't be replacing him at half back, the likes of Nash, Rama, Hocking, Dempsey etc will.

 

[Silvagnis]

If we go with two talls at pick 36 and 46 I'll go jump off the West Gate Bridge. Won't happen. We already have the tallest list in the league and after Kreuzer we'll certainly be looking at mids.

The 2007 draft will be a fizzer for Carlton after pick one if we draft Daye and Gibson at 36 and 46.

The footskills of Daye, Walker, Setanta, Thornton, Russell and Carrazzo would turn Ratten's hair grey overnight.

 

[Pykie]

Im not going to criticise as its a good effort, however.

I disagree with the majority of reasons placing Scott Selwood at the Kangaroo's purely because we have lost Glenn Archer.

We have lost some toughness back there? Give me a break. Arch was increadible, but its an insult to the guys currently there.

Daniel Pratt is one of the hardest players ive seen pull on a jumper, and Michael Firrito doesnt exactly lack grunt.

To say hed slip in easily is quite a laugh as well, Ed Lower, whom I rate above Jesse Smith and Daniel Wells as our best young player, would command a BP spot well before Selwood (If hes not in the guts), a young bloke named Lachlen Hansen might have a say in it as well, not to mention the recently drafted Sam Power.


Ive heared rumbling's we're interested, but I doubt it would be to replace Glenn Archer, which in itself, is impossible.

 

[ant555]

Well done Very good reading
Just on your theory of Essendon sticking to the same plan as they did under Sheedy , it may not be the case. Knights is on record saying the recruiting staff have to step up and find players to fill the positions that he wants filled. He said he has put the pressure on them. I am not sure what to expect come draft time but i know that the Sheedy theory wont be around while Knights is in charge.

 

[Reg Hickey]

Nice mock, and good to go against conventional wisdom, but I think you've misread Collingwood's needs in one area.

While you cite Clement's retirement as a reason that we could use another medium-sized defender, the reality is that we played most of this season without him and were able to cover the gap fine. In fact, with Maxwell, O'Brien, Goldsack, Cox and the untried John Anthony on the list, medium-sized defenders is one of our strongest and youngest areas, so with that in mind, I'd be astonished to see us take someone like Sandilands in the draft.

Much more pressing for Collingwood to recruit is a midfielder capable of winning clearances and hard-ball, or a wing/half-forward to release guys like Alan Didak and Dale Thomas into the midfield. Even a small defender to potentially release Heath Shaw might make sense.

With Burns and O'Bree still shouldering much of the clearance work, and both getting on in years, it is becoming a pressing need to bring in someone that can replace that grunt at stoppages. Given that, I'd suggest that might be a direction Collingwood goes in on draft day.

Of course, I tend to be shocked by Collingwood on draft day, so you might be right.

This is much more of a question than a challenge, because obviously I don't know your list as well as you do, and your assessment is pretty consistent with what I've heard from other Pies supporters on their needs.

However ...

I can absolutely see that a clearance midfielder would be a priority, even a small defender although from my outside perspective I think you have plenty of players capable of playing back flank or back pocket. But I can't really see a small/medium forward when you already have Medhurst, Davis and others on top of Didak and Thomas. I would have thought that a key defender and a ruckman would be higher on the priority list.

Assuming Reid, Cloke and Dawes are more likely to be forwards, I can only see three true key defenders on the list - Presti, Wakelin and Nathan Brown (who hasn't played a game) - and Presti and Wakelin are getting very long in the tooth. This year you were playing guys like Goldsack and O'Brien in key defensive posts, and they are both undersized for those roles. John Anthony may be a possibility, but even then I would think you would still need another one.

You also only have three rucks in Fraser, Wood and Bryan, and to be honest I struggle to see Bryan as a long term quality ruckman. Wouldn't a good ruck would be high on the shooping list as well?

 

[coopers pale]

If we drafted those two with our first two picks I'll throw something at the tv. Two defensive, slowish, not-quite-but maybe-midfielder-types?

You may be right, Quigley, and no doubt you know more about these players than most of us, but blind freddy can see that our glaring needs are:
- FAST outside mids;
- CHF and
- Full back.

If our first two draft picks don't address either of these it will be a disgrace.

If we get a decent FB that releases Firrito into the midfield/HBF mix, and he'd provide everything Selwood appears to with some leadership on the side. I also agree with Pykie that Pratt has the hard man role in our backline nailed down already. I'd love to see Riggio or Trotter also step up into regular HBF/midfield contention.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

This is much more of a question than a challenge, because obviously I don't know your list as well as you do, and your assessment is pretty consistent with what I've heard from other Pies supporters on their needs.

However ...

I can absolutely see that a clearance midfielder would be a priority, even a small defender although from my outside perspective I think you have plenty of players capable of playing back flank or back pocket. But I can't really see a small/medium forward when you already have Medhurst, Davis and others on top of Didak and Thomas. I would have thought that a key defender and a ruckman would be higher on the priority list.

Assuming Reid, Cloke and Dawes are more likely to be forwards, I can only see three true key defenders on the list - Presti, Wakelin and Nathan Brown (who hasn't played a game) - and Presti and Wakelin are getting very long in the tooth. This year you were playing guys like Goldsack and O'Brien in key defensive posts, and they are both undersized for those roles. John Anthony may be a possibility, but even then I would think you would still need another one.

You also only have three rucks in Fraser, Wood and Bryan, and to be honest I struggle to see Bryan as a long term quality ruckman. Wouldn't a good ruck would be high on the shooping list as well?

I think Vinnie's rationale was that Didak, Thomas, and Davis would all be spending a lot of time in the middle, which would in turn open up spots for small forwards.

IMO Collingwood's top priority has to be clearance-winning mids, preferably mids who can kick and have a bit of pace to boot. We also need a fourth ruckman. But given that we're entering a shallow draft at #31, we may simply take the best talent available, irrespective of type. (The beggars-can't-be-choosers principle.)

Vinnie suggested in his phantom draft picks that with only two 'live' picks (the other already locked in on Barham f/s), we might wait until the rookie draft to take a project ruckman. I think this is a real possibility.

Another big key defender would be nice, but it's down the list of priorities by my reckoning. Prestigiacomo doesn't turn 30 till January, so he's hopefully got at least two more seasons in him. Brown is the obvious replacement. And at 192cm Anthony may be a KPD prospect (I'm a little sceptical -- he's more a third tall IMO). The other option is Reid. If Dawes and Rusling make it as key forwards that might prompt us to use Reid at CHB. Reid is a tremendous athlete and at 196cm has more than enough height to play a key position. I think he has the tools to be a very good CHB. So while another genuine key defensive prospect would be ideal, I think we have enough coverage to defer it one more draft if necessary.

 

[Reg Hickey]

OK. That helps a bit.

I think Vinnie's rationale was that Didak, Thomas, and Davis would all be spending a lot of time in the middle, which would in turn open up spots for small forwards.

OK, I understand the rationale, although I still think that you'd be overloading on small forwards if you got another one. I can see Didak and Thomas more in the midfield, but surely they would still spend some time up forward too (as Ablett and Chapman do for Geelong). I struggle to see Davis as a midfielder and you still have Medhurst as a forward. And don't you have a few other 6 foot kids/rookies who could play forward?

IMO Collingwood's top priority has to be clearance-winning mids, preferably mids who can kick and have a bit of pace to boot.

If Didak and Thomas play more midfield, would they help here? Both pretty quick and can kick.

But given that we're entering a shallow draft at #31, we may simply take the best talent available, irrespective of type. (The beggars-can't-be-choosers principle.)

I would think that makes it even more likely to draft for need, because at that level in this draft its a bit of a lottery in any case. So why not take a gamble on a type you need rather than a gamble on a type you don't?

... we might wait until the rookie draft to take a project ruckman. I think this is a real possibility.

Agree. You need a fourth, and there is a LOT of ruck depth this year so you might well get someone decent available in the rookie draft.

Another big key defender would be nice, but it's down the list of priorities by my reckoning. Prestigiacomo doesn't turn 30 till January, so he's hopefully got at least two more seasons in him. Brown is the obvious replacement. And at 192cm Anthony may be a KPD prospect (I'm a little sceptical -- he's more a third tall IMO). The other option is Reid. If Dawes and Rusling make it as key forwards that might prompt us to use Reid at CHB. Reid is a tremendous athlete and at 196cm has more than enough height to play a key position. I think he has the tools to be a very good CHB. So while another genuine key defensive prospect would be ideal, I think we have enough coverage to defer it one more draft if necessary.

OK. I can see Cloke, Dawes and Rusling in the forward line and perhaps Brown, Reid and Anthony/O'Brien/Goldsack in defence. Could certainly still see a project tall in the rookie draft though.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Nice mock, and good to go against conventional wisdom, but I think you've misread Collingwood's needs in one area.

While you cite Clement's retirement as a reason that we could use another medium-sized defender, the reality is that we played most of this season without him and were able to cover the gap fine. In fact, with Maxwell, O'Brien, Goldsack, Cox and the untried John Anthony on the list, medium-sized defenders is one of our strongest and youngest areas, so with that in mind, I'd be astonished to see us take someone like Sandilands in the draft.

Much more pressing for Collingwood to recruit is a midfielder capable of winning clearances and hard-ball, or a wing/half-forward to release guys like Alan Didak and Dale Thomas into the midfield. Even a small defender to potentially release Heath Shaw might make sense.

With Burns and O'Bree still shouldering much of the clearance work, and both getting on in years, it is becoming a pressing need to bring in someone that can replace that grunt at stoppages. Given that, I'd suggest that might be a direction Collingwood goes in on draft day.

Of course, I tend to be shocked by Collingwood on draft day, so you might be right.

good effort - reads well.

agree with vv though, think you have the Pies a bit off. in saying that its your opinion and time will tell. Cannot see us taking two rucks with our first two picks (eg Wood at 14 and then Simpson 31). Much more likely to be an inside or outside mid. Hoping for Ward as the outside or Grimes / Greenwood as the inside.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

That's a fair assessment, but it seems that each year supporters perceive imbalances in their lists and expect them to be 100% filled in one draft and it doesn't seem to turn out that way too often IMO.

I think it's a bit different with Collingwood though - Because we've drafted so many kinds over the last three years, and at a relatively high success rate, we're actually at the point where there are logjams being created. As I said, we have a lot of you tall/medium players, and a lot of young outside runners/flankers, with that tally being added to already with the acquisition of Jaxson Barham and Kevin Dyas, who both have excellent pace.

It's one thing to say that a club is going to draft to fill specific needs evident in the senior side, but generally sides will draft to fill holes within their young group of players. Last year a lot of Collingwood supporters were saying that we needed to draft midfielders, but I looked at the list and expected us to go tall at some point, because we didn't have many young talls.

At this point we'll be creating log-jams for the future if we don't start drafting for other areas.

 

[Blue_Blood]

Collier to Lions is a great choice fits the bill perfectly for what they need, and his ability to run and go on ball makes him highly versatile. Definitely my choice at pick 8

 

[Philhawk]

I will be so bloody ecstatic if we pick up Myers with Pick 12.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Another big key defender would be nice, but it's down the list of priorities by my reckoning.

Thanks for the backup on everything - I can see that another key defensive prospect would be useful, but Hugh Sandilands isn't a key defensive prospect - He's a medium defender, which we are overloaded with.

If it was someone like a Kangars or Dulic, because they're more legitimate KP players, it might make sense, but it would be a relatively distant priority behind inside mids and KPs.

 

[The Teflon Dean]

Don't like it from a North perspective.

Like many others you have us wasting high draft picks an what we have an overabundance of already, in and unders, and medium defenders.

We need KPP, and I will be amazed if we don't take two of them with our first three picks. Look for 193-199 cm sized KPP's.

Look for Gourdis, Kangars or Simpson to go at pick 15. An outide mid and another KPP at picks 32 and 37.

 

[BlueRoos]

Don't like it from a North perspective.

Like many others you have us wasting high draft picks an what we have an overabundance of already, in and unders, and medium defenders.

We need KPP, and I will be amazed if we don't take two of them with our first three picks. Look for 193-199 cm sized KPP's.

Look for Gourdis, Kangars or Simpson to go at pick 15. An outide mid and another KPP at picks 32 and 37.

absolutely. North will definately target KKP, especially another big defender, and will look to some mids with speed. Could get fun if value for those positions isn't available for our picks, will the club be tempted by the best avilable talent.

Great work though Quigley, a terrific read and you can't help but appreciate how much you have put into it. a labour of love obviously.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

OK, I understand the rationale, although I still think that you'd be overloading on small forwards if you got another one. I can see Didak and Thomas more in the midfield, but surely they would still spend some time up forward too (as Ablett and Chapman do for Geelong). I struggle to see Davis as a midfielder and you still have Medhurst as a forward. And don't you have a few other 6 foot kids/rookies who could play forward?

Yes, I'd expect Didak and Thomas to still spend a bit of time forward. But I think the balance will be changed from small forwards who rotate through the middle to mids who occasionally push forward -- toward the end of the season, I think Collingwood moved toward this kind of setup.

You're right about Davis: he won't ever be a permanent mid. He doesn't have the motor for it. But this year he had regular stints in the middle, with quite a bit of success. He's gonna be a second-string mid, I would think. Didak and Thomas will hopefully develop into frontliners.

In terms of young small forwards, we have Brad Dick and, perhaps, Sharrod Wellingham (rookie) coming through. So I tend to agree that we're well stocked in this area. I doubt we'd draft a small/medium forward, unless we thought he had serious midfield potential.

If Didak and Thomas play more midfield, would they help here? Both pretty quick and can kick.

Thomas will give us footspeed; Didak will give us elite kicking. But we still need to improve our midfield depth, IMO. Stoppages, in particular, are an area we have to improve at. I think we'd be looking for an in-and-under type mid to get our midfield 'blend' right.

I would think that makes it even more likely to draft for need, because at that level in this draft its a bit of a lottery in any case. So why not take a gamble on a type you need rather than a gamble on a type you don't?

Hard to say given I don't have first-hand knowledge of the draft pool. My view is that with the cream of the crop well and truly gone by the time #31 comes round, we may simply take anyone with talent -- regardless of position. But all things being equal, I expect us to prioritise mids.

Agree. You need a fourth, and there is a LOT of ruck depth this year so you might well get someone decent available in the rookie draft.

Who knows how Derek Hine rates them, but it seems the BF consensus is that outside Kreuzer, McEvoy, and maybe Bellchambers the rucks are all fairly speculative selections. In that case, we might simply try for Martin or Spencer, or someone of that calibre, in the rookie draft.

OK. I can see Cloke, Dawes and Rusling in the forward line and perhaps Brown, Reid and Anthony/O'Brien/Goldsack in defence. Could certainly still see a project tall in the rookie draft though.

Yep. No argument from me. I'd like another 194cm+ defender on our list. But with few, and late, picks this year, some areas might not be addressed.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

In terms of young small forwards, we have Brad Dick and, perhaps, Sharrod Wellingham (rookie) coming through. So I tend to agree that we're well stocked in this area. I doubt we'd draft a small/medium forward, unless we thought he had serious midfield potential.

Just as an aside, Sharrod Wellingham isn't a forward at all - Pure midfield/wing, and possibly the reason we may not look at an inside mid at that. Actually does a fair job of winning clearances himself.

Agree that any small forward we drafted would have to become part of the midfield rotation though.

 

[Bubba_5]

Hey great effort Quigley, truly appreciated when someone puts so much effort into a phantom. You called it though, as a doggy supporter I am in a bit of shock about Masten, I know he is a quality midfielder but I think that the doggies have drafted the best player available for too long now, plus Palmer seems to be ahead of Masten in every area except perhaps leadership, so if we were going to go for the best player available, I'd want him. Thanks again though Quigley, great read.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Just as an aside, Sharrod Wellingham isn't a forward at all - Pure midfield/wing, and possibly the reason we may not look at an inside mid at that. Actually does a fair job of winning clearances himself.

Agree that any small forward we drafted would have to become part of the midfield rotation though.

I mentioned Wellingham because, from my recollection, he was written up as a HFF/Winger when we drafted him last year. I agree that he shapes as an inside mid -- and is of most value to us as an inside mid -- but I think he has the tools to play a HFF as well.

I like Wellingham, but I'd like to see us add a big, bruising mid to the mix. As willing as Sharrod is, that's not his profile. Maybe it'll be Danny Stanley, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Thanks Mrs Quigs for issuing the “poetic licence”… A great opinionated write up, backed up with logical reasoning.
As The Burgatron suggested on weekend radio, there is more chance of winning Lotto than predicting the fall of the draft.

Many thanks for another great read Quigs.

An interesting footnote:
You have the Lions first round pick as Tom Collier… last year Matt Burgan had…

70 - BRISBANE LIONS - TOM COLLIER
Tassie Mariners, 25 March 1989, 191.6cm, 83.5kg
Collier looms as a potential late selection in the draft and has been linked with the Brisbane Lions at No.70. He is not without a chance of featuring earlier in the draft, given his height and athletic attributes. Highlights/achievements: Athletic, versatile player who is a very long kick. Has good speed which showed representing Australia at U17 level versus Ireland this year.

Very interesting… but happy to continue to watch Sam Sheldon’s development this year…

 

[awesome_assassin]

Damn you Quigs..everytime i read one of your posts my eyes hurt.
Seriously top effort. Its sometimes hard to get a handle on what certain players are like, but with in depth analysis like this, makes it so much easier.

 

[tomthehawk]

19. Western Bulldogs – Jarrad Grant – DOB 6/7/89 Ht 191 Wt 77[/B]

In all honesty I did not have Grant this high before a couple of the experts like Shifter suddenly had him going at 5. 5 in my opinion would be massively overpaying for him but at 19 he is probably a pretty fair pick up and he is the type of thin, athletic player who is often taken by the Bulldogs. He could end up being a very good player but he needs a couple of years in the gym before we are going to see the best of him. Grant is not going to give the Bulldogs the immediate help they need up forward but with the draft it pays to plan for the longer term rather than the short as almost invariably the short term strategy comes back to bite you (except if you are Sydney it seems).

Grant is getting a lot of attention after some good performances in the TAC over the coarse of the year. He didn’t play a lot of games but in the ones that he did he managed to top the averages for goals per game and contested marks per game. He has good hands, is a very nice mark and is can make the highlight reels with some screamers. When he is on he has a lot of flair in his game and can look like a million bucks. He does however fade in and out of matches and can look disinterested. He was an non-factor at the Champs especially against WA and that might cause some concern about whether he can step up.

He is extremely quick and showed that with a 2.89 in the 20 metre sprint at Camp (4th overall). I would have liked to know his agility scores as this is one area which I have not been that impressed. He does not change direction particularly well and similarly his recovery could be better. For these reasons I think he is going to be a forward and probably won’t be make it as a backman. I think he also needs to work on his endurance but that is not a concern for me in a forward at this level. His height is a little under ideal but his pace, hands and leap compensate for that. I have a fair few negatives here but I think that is more to justify not having him higher rather than me not rating him at all. I think he is a good prospect but I don’t think he is a “can’t miss” prospect.

He didn't play in the WA match, he just played the next 2.

 

[Hislop200]

That was bloody excellent, thanks for that.
I agree with your pick #6 Rioli to Essendon. I just cant see how Palmer and Masten will be better in the future than Rioli. He is a better kick, faster, a better tackler and is a game breaker.

 

[Modra93]

great read quigs. dont like jackson hall's chances?

 

[Infamy]

Well done Quiqs, obviously a lot of effort went into this

As for the people critisising the draft choices of individual clubs, most of you wouldn't have a clue what your respective clubs are targeting in the upcoming draft, you only have a preconceived idea of what you need. It's petty and stupid to be nitpicking a phantom draft like this, just appreciate it for the detailed descriptions. For all you know it's far more accurate than you think.