Toast Quinton Narkle

[catempire]

I can see where you're coming from and I agree with the majority of it, but I believe there's a significant amount of confirmation bias occuring (not necessarily from you, but certainly others).

Ongoing commentary about lack of pressure, and I agree, it's a weakness.

Unfortunately I can't review pressure acts (because you know, classic ChampionData paywall). But I don't need to see the numbers to know he wouldn't stack up well there.

But, did you know:

• Shaun Higgins had two games last year with zero tackles. The same amount as Narkle.
• Narkle averages more tackles per game than O'Connor over their respective careers
• Narkle averages more tackles per game than Simpson over their respective careers

In addition:

• Narkle averaged as many clearances and rebound 50s as Parfitt last year, despite significantly lower TOG
• Narkle had his first 30 disposal game before names including Dustin Martin, Bartel, Dangerfield and 50 games before Parfitt

I don't believe the situation is as black and white as you make it.

Narkle has shown a lot more than Constable.

You're right he was up for trade last two seasons, but let's examine the context.

2020: The year from hell. Virtually no VFL, virtually no game time. No continuity, lack of interest makes sense.
2021: Admittedly didn't string enough dominant games together to build any real value - but not necessarilly afforded the opportunities he deserved. Clearly wasn't strong interest otherwise he'd be long gone, but I think it's likely he would be on another list as a DFA.

Scott has gone on record several times, significant props given to Quinton.

I'm not asking for a miracle, I just want him to be given 5-6 games in a row. Full game time in the middle, with the caveat to him that 'it's now or never'.

I don’t have the numbers to hand but it’s pressure points, not tackles, that tell the story. He doesn’t chase. He doesn’t hassle. He doesn’t apply any pressure. Compare that with Holmes for example. It’s a quality that endears a player to those that make the calls.

 

[#cats2021]

I don’t have the numbers to hand but it’s pressure points, not tackles, that tell the story. He doesn’t chase. He doesn’t hassle. He doesn’t apply any pressure. Compare that with Holmes for example. It’s a quality that endears a player to those that make the calls.

From my OP:

Ongoing commentary about lack of pressure, and I agree, it's a weakness.

Unfortunately I can't review pressure acts (because you know, classic ChampionData paywall). But I don't need to see the numbers to know he wouldn't stack up well there.

 

[catempire]

From my OP:

Ongoing commentary about lack of pressure, and I agree, it's a weakness.

Unfortunately I can't review pressure acts (because you know, classic ChampionData paywall). But I don't need to see the numbers to know he wouldn't stack up well there.

Sure but to say that and then point out some stat categories we know aren’t the issue is… kind of pointless don’t you think?

 

[Stab Pass]

There was a piece of play against North in Tassie last year that summed up the issue with Narkle. Contest just forward of the wing, opponent wins the ball and Narkle literally jogs after him. Selwood comes from 10m further away and tries to tackle at that point Narkle accelerates a little but no "desperate effort". Parfitt comes from well off the ball to tackle the North player and takes him to the ground. When you watch it on replay you see why Narkle isn't getting the games some want and why Parfitt is held in high regard by the coaches. There is no doubting his ability to win clearances and the ball, but chasing, pressure and effort are non-negotiables for modern mids. It's not a skill or fitness thing, he just needs to want to do it and at the moment he doesn't.

 

[Down at K Park]

There was a piece of play against North in Tassie last year that summed up the issue with Narkle. Contest just forward of the wing, opponent wins the ball and Narkle literally jogs after him. Selwood comes from 10m further away and tries to tackle at that point Narkle accelerates a little but no "desperate effort". Parfitt comes from well off the ball to tackle the North player and takes him to the ground. When you watch it on replay you see why Narkle isn't getting the games some want and why Parfitt is held in high regard by the coaches. There is no doubting his ability to win clearances and the ball, but chasing, pressure and effort are non-negotiables for modern mids. It's not a skill or fitness thing, he just needs to want to do it and at the moment he doesn't.

Then selwood should have given him a spray.

 

[Perazi]

Favourite isn't the word, players they trust is the description

Do you mean trustworthy players like Higgins, Jake K. and Zuthrie?

 

[Partridge]

Do you mean trustworthy players like Higgins, Jake K. and Zuthrie?

Blicavs, Rohan....

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Do you mean trustworthy players like Higgins, Jake K. and Zuthrie?

Players the MC trust. I didn't say I trust them

 

[Perazi]

Players the MC trust. I didn't say I trust them

Fair enough. My gripe is some players get many more chances to win trust than others!

 

[cats_09]

If folks want pressure act stats, that aren't that difficult to find and are readily available in the stats section of the AFL website

As for Narkle - this is his career averages, in terms of benchmarking in 2018 he ranked as average for pressure acts and below average in the remaining seasons which for which he has played a senior game




He ranked 21st at Geelong last season for average PA:





And in terms of his league wide ranking, he came in at equal 431st out of 673 players who took to the field last season

 

[catempire]

If folks want pressure act stats, that aren't that difficult to find and are readily available in the stats section of the AFL website

As for Narkle - this is his career averages, in terms of benchmarking in 2018 he ranked as average for pressure acts and below average in the remaining seasons which for which he has played a senior game

View attachment 1359682


He ranked 21st at Geelong last season for average PA:
View attachment 1359668
View attachment 1359669



And in terms of his league wide ranking, he came in at equal 431st out of 673 players who took to the field last season

View attachment 1359670View attachment 1359671

That you can’t view these in the AFL app is absolutely ridiculous. Thanks.

 

[cats_09]

That you can’t view these in the AFL app is absolutely ridiculous. Thanks.

I totally agree and get frustrated with that - it's annoying that some things are easily accessible in the app & others only via the website, just wish they shared the availability across both platforms

 

[Spearman]

Then selwood should have given him a spray.

Does he give anyone a spray?

 

[Down at K Park]

Does he give anyone a spray?

Is he not supposed to be teaching and instructing young players out on the field? You’d think in that situation he’d turn to him and point out he ran past him to pressure, and it’s not good enough from narkle. Without seeing the footage from straight afterwards i don’t know what he did.

 

[Lana]

If folks want pressure act stats, that aren't that difficult to find and are readily available in the stats section of the AFL website

As for Narkle - this is his career averages, in terms of benchmarking in 2018 he ranked as average for pressure acts and below average in the remaining seasons which for which he has played a senior game

View attachment 1359682


He ranked 21st at Geelong last season for average PA:
View attachment 1359668
View attachment 1359669



And in terms of his league wide ranking, he came in at equal 431st out of 673 players who took to the field last season

View attachment 1359670View attachment 1359671

Average is kind of a useless measure for him given how often he was the sub.

If the AFL website wasn't so much trash you'd try to make a per game time comparison.

Don't think doing so it actually that useful.

The correlation between proximately to stoppages and PA is too high.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Is he not supposed to be teaching and instructing young players out on the field? You’d think in that situation he’d turn to him and point out he ran past him to pressure, and it’s not good enough from narkle. Without seeing the footage from straight afterwards i don’t know what he did.

Let's not assume that this is something that Narkle can 100% control. He was coming off an acl when we drafted him. Maybe his knee just won't let him run for long periods so he has to make an economic decision when to run and not run?

Could be a lot of things, but I'm betting it's not just down to level of desire

 

[catempire]

Average is kind of a useless measure for him given how often he was the sub.

If the AFL website wasn't so much trash you'd try to make a per game time comparison.

Don't think doing so it actually that useful.

The correlation between proximately to stoppages and PA is too high.

You can see what we are talking about in single games though. In the Pies game last year where he received near universal pundit praise, he was terrible in pressure measure.

 

[cats_09]

Let's not assume that this is something that Narkle can 100% control. He was coming off an acl when we drafted him. Maybe his knee just won't let him run for long periods so he has to make an economic decision when to run and not run?

Could be a lot of things, but I'm betting it's not just down to level of desire

He did his ACL during his first season with us, unless that was his second ACL having done one earlier

 

[cats_09]

You can see what we are talking about in single games though. In the Pies game last year where he received near universal pundit praise, he was terrible in pressure measure.

View attachment 1359749

I decided to check out our MVP votes from that match - 35 sets of votes were made and 14 posters didn't have him in their top 5

Looking at your screenshot, maybe it's not that surprising he was omitted following that match. Not sure if you would have access to it or not, but did you have the above for our clash with Essendon last year?

 

[Spearman]

Is he not supposed to be teaching and instructing young players out on the field? You’d think in that situation he’d turn to him and point out he ran past him to pressure, and it’s not good enough from narkle. Without seeing the footage from straight afterwards i don’t know what he did.

That was my point, he doesn't seem to do that, at least during games. Maybe he's more to the point at other times. It's something that I've often wondered about. Is he that kind of captain, or mostly the lead by example kind.

 

[catempire]

I decided to check out our MVP votes from that match - 35 sets of votes were made and 14 posters didn't have him in their top 5

Looking at your screenshot, maybe it's not that surprising he was omitted following that match. Not sure if you would have access to it or not, but did you have the above for our clash with Essendon last year?

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

Does he give anyone a spray?

Hope not, its AFL not amateurs. Leave criticism to after game review.

 

[Spearman]

Hope not, its AFL not amateurs. Leave criticism to after game review.

I think the sparse and judicial use of a sharp word would work even in a professional onfield environment. Depends on the receiver I guess, and how they usually respond to such critiques.

 

[Lana]

You can see what we are talking about in single games though. In the Pies game last year where he received near universal pundit praise, he was terrible in pressure measure.

View attachment 1359749

I will rudely dismiss that as a sample size of one

I do get the point you are making. My comment wasn't in defence of Narkle, more about using the average under this specific context

 

[Lana]

View attachment 1359767

Now he suddenly chases