Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[William Caresser]

Hmmm, I don't know about that.

Any Labor Govt that tried it would be destroyed by a completely bad faith Coalition scare campaign.

And Coalition governments of late haven't shown any ability or inclination for that kind of progressive detailed policy reform.

I agree that sooner or later that revenue gap would need to be filledm but a Coalition govt would be far more likely to fill it elsewhere imo.

State governments can charge tax for items like rego or stamp duty which aren't related to usage or production, but it's been widely accepted under the law, that they can't tax on usage/production. State government solicitors know (or should have known) that they can't introduce production or consumption taxes - like the Commonwealth's 48 cents a litre on fuel. But the Vic Gov't had a crack at it anyway with their EV consumption tax.

The Feds have been waiting for the outcome of this case and Chalmers said previously they'll look at options once the decision was made. The current fuel excise and GST on fuel raises tens of billions over the 4 years and a lot of it is used for roads. There is no way that the Feds will not phase in some type of tax on EV consumption as fuel excise revenues fall. And rightly so - motorists' tax should be commensurate with their usage - ie. how much they contribute to roads deteriorating - as it is now (although as others have mentioned, arguably heavy vehicle usage and other class usage isn't linked accurately). Like any consumption tax though, it is regressive. Doesn't matter if you earn $40,000 a year or $40 million, you will pay the same amount per unit.

 

[Del191229]

Yeah, not much budgetary spending, Dan just splashed on a couple of big ticket items, such as half a billion for NOT hosting the Commonwealth Games, and over a billion for NOT having an east-west link road.

The E/W Link stuff is entirely down to ugly chicanery by the outgoing Napthine Government.

The Commonwealth games a different story, but better than spending billions more on a stupid event.

I note the Metro opens soon too ...

 

[see see]

I note the Metro opens soon too ...

Yeah, 10 figures over budget due to a shameful "settlement" with contractors who deliberately undercooked their bid to win the job and then came with their hands out when, surprise surprise, they realised they couldn't deliver for the cost that they said they could.

Another great result from Mr "No win, no problem as I still get my fee" Leon Zwier.

 

[Del191229]

State governments can charge tax for items like rego or stamp duty which aren't related to usage or production, but it's been widely accepted under the law, that they can't tax on usage/production. State government solicitors know (or should have known) that they can't introduce production or consumption taxes - like the Commonwealth's 48 cents a litre on fuel. But the Vic Gov't had a crack at it anyway with their EV consumption tax.

The Feds have been waiting for the outcome of this case and Chalmers said previously they'll look at options once the decision was made. The current fuel excise and GST on fuel raises tens of billions over the 4 years and a lot of it is used for roads. There is no way that the Feds will not phase in some type of tax on EV consumption as fuel excise revenues fall. And rightly so - motorists' tax should be commensurate with their usage - ie. how much they contribute to roads deteriorating - as it is now (although as others have mentioned, arguably heavy vehicle usage and other class usage isn't linked accurately). Like any consumption tax though, it is regressive. Doesn't matter if you earn $40,000 a year or $40 million, you will pay the same amount per unit.

Chalmers is a snivelling Labor Right coward who won't even spend their windfall surplus on cost of living measures while the electorate is screaming now.

Having lost the referendum and with an election campaign 18 months away, there's absolutely no chance they even go near introducing anything that can immediately be labelled "a big new Labor tax".

So it gets kicked into the too hard basket again.

Everything you posted above is correct, I'm not disputing that, its a great post.

But contemporary Australian politics teaches us there is no appetite for reform on issues like this at the federal level - look at wat hapened to Shorten when he was dumb enough to try.

The far more likely outcome is that we'll sit and watch as the fuel excise revenue will start dwindling as you say, and we'll all wring our hands about it, and White Papers and Productivity Commission papers will get published, and the ACCC will call for action.

Ken Henry, the Grattan Institute and every other pud puller in town will get wound up.

And in the end we'll have another unexpected revenue boom from mining shit like lithium and rare eaths, that'll be used to plug the funding gap, and the ship will be briefly righted to continue on for another decade.

Meanwhile the states will continue providing the actual services people use, and having to take up the slack the feds can't or won't deliver (Victoria now has its own CES for example, and provides priority care because GPs are borked) but have to do it off an ever shrinking revenue base.

Because some posh knobs supported by the Posh Knob Party aka the Greens got cut at Dan Andrews for attempting to solve a very real and difficult problem and sooked to the unelected High Court which decided to rewrite federation's terms because they can.

Australia is such a joke country ffs.

 

[Del191229]

Yeah, 10 figures over budget due to a shameful "settlement" with contractors who deliberately undercooked their bid to win the job and then came with their hands out when, surprise surprise, they realised they couldn't deliver for the cost that they said they could.

Another great result from Mr "No win, no problem as I still get my fee" Leon Zwier.

Governments should never build massive infrastructure projects with generational benefits because they inevitably go over budget?

I note jury trials have returned after COVID though.

 

[see see]

Governments should never build massive infrastructure projects with generational benefits because they inevitably go over budget?

I note jury trials have returned after COVID though.

Where'd I say that shouldn't happen? I'm all for large intergenerational projects with tangible benefits. I just don't think government should give the private sector a free hit for their greed driven f*** ups. A bad deal is a bad deal. The NPV of the amount gifted to private construction companies could've funded a fair bit of much needed social infrastructure.

And what does your point about jury trials have to do with this? Nice use of the "store this one away for a few years to subsequently make a point on the internet" file

 

[Del191229]

Where'd I say that shouldn't happen? I'm all for large intergenerational projects with tangible benefits. I just don't think government should give the private sector a free hit for their greed driven f*** ups. A bad deal is a bad deal. The NPV of the amount gifted to private construction companies could've funded a fair bit of much needed social infrastructure.

FWIW I agree here.

And what does your point about jury trials have to do with this? Nice use of the "store this one away for a few years to subsequently make a point on the internet" file

This is BigFooty ... and yes it was a hit churlish of me.

 

[Del191229]

Well done Greens, you opened the way for the court to most likely find that congestion charges are unconstitutional.

A big win for Ellen Sandell and her 15 child living ina beautiful $1.6m Kensington terrace.

The sacrifices required to tackle the climate emergency are for the little people.

 

[Cyber_punk]

 

[koshari]

How are governments ever meant to do anything if cynical opposition parties like the Greens wilfully undermine sensible attempts at policy reform then rush off to unelected courts who appear to think they are superior to legislatures?

the greens only have what 5% of the parliemnt, good policy shoudnt be opposed, both majors can pass good policy without the greens,

 

[Del191229]

the greens only have what 5% of the parliemnt, good policy shoudnt be opposed, both majors can pass good policy without the greens,

Federal or Vic?

 

[Del191229]

 

[Del191229]

Honestly, these people should welcome the guillotine

 

[Themanbun]

State governments can charge tax for items like rego or stamp duty which aren't related to usage or production, but it's been widely accepted under the law, that they can't tax on usage/production. State government solicitors know (or should have known) that they can't introduce production or consumption taxes - like the Commonwealth's 48 cents a litre on fuel. But the Vic Gov't had a crack at it anyway with their EV consumption tax.

The Feds have been waiting for the outcome of this case and Chalmers said previously they'll look at options once the decision was made. The current fuel excise and GST on fuel raises tens of billions over the 4 years and a lot of it is used for roads. There is no way that the Feds will not phase in some type of tax on EV consumption as fuel excise revenues fall. And rightly so - motorists' tax should be commensurate with their usage - ie. how much they contribute to roads deteriorating - as it is now (although as others have mentioned, arguably heavy vehicle usage and other class usage isn't linked accurately). Like any consumption tax though, it is regressive. Doesn't matter if you earn $40,000 a year or $40 million, you will pay the same amount per unit.

And as the suburban sprawl pushes working class poorer families further and further away from their place of work they will be slugged more and more and more with consumption taxes (whether fuel excise, EV mileage or otherwise). It's expensive to be poor.

 

[Del191229]

I have always said Bluey is right wing coded.

Queensland campaigners.

 

[B4Bear]

And as the suburban sprawl pushes working class poorer families further and further away from their place of work they will be slugged more and more and more with consumption taxes (whether fuel excise, EV mileage or otherwise). It's expensive to be poor.

It is. However, out here in the West of Melbourne, as in way west in Werribee/ Point Cook area, the public transport is such that you can work in the city and have a relatively cheap/easy/regular service to get there.

I have five people in the house that all work in and around the city, and it is pretty good for all of us.

None of us drive into the city if we can avoid it.

 

[ferball]

This one is fascinating ferball - have the orca in South Africa taught local whales how to hunt great white sharks for their livers?

Spoiler: Great white shark story

Mystery surrounds creature responsible for great white shark death on Portland beach

Spoiler: Great white shark story

Researchers are “looking for the pieces of the puzzle” to solve the mystery of the half-eaten great white shark that washed ashore near Portland.
Lauren Hutchinson

2 min read
October 19, 2023 - 8:56AM
0 comments

It’s suspected the shark may have been mauled by a pod of killer whales. Picture: Neil Tokin

Victoria​

Don't miss out on the headlines from Victoria. Followed categories will be added to My News.
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Locals believe a pod of killer whales were responsible for the death of a half-eaten great white shark which was found washed ashore on a beach in Victoria’s southwest.
Portland residents discovered the chewed-up carcass of the great white on the sand at Bridgewater beach on Monday, a day after orca whales were spotted circling in nearby waters.
Local surfer Mark Berry, who stumbled across the shark on his way to the surf, said only a whale could be responsible for such a large bite.
“It was such a big shark, I doubt anything else would have happened to it,” Mr Berry said.
“We are guessing orcas may have preyed upon it; there were orcas sighted in the area only a day or two before,” he said.

A great white washed up on Bridgewater beach near Portland. Picture: Facebook/mark Berry
“It’s quite bizarre. I’ve never seen anything like this before and I’ve been surfing here for 50 years.
“It was a pretty big shark, half of it had been eaten.”
Portland resident Allen McCauley said he watched as orcas circled at Bridgewater Bay, just west of Portland for two and a half hours on Sunday.
“We thought they might have been feeding on some salmon but, after seeing the photo of the shark, we realised what might have happened,” he said.

While locals are convinced they know what took down the great white, marine experts say there is more killer creatures than just orcas.
Research officer at the Dolphin Research Institute, David Donnelly, said in his 20 years of research, he’s never heard of an orca attacking a great white shark.
Mr Donnelly said they were still in investigating the bizarre discovery, and did not want to jump to any conclusions before the complete scientific process has taken place.
“We are just looking for those pieces of the puzzle that will let us know that this is a certainty,” said Mr Donnelly.
“There’s more than killer whales in the ocean, there’s a lot of creatures out there.”
Despite the prospect of the apex predators surfacing near his local swimming haunt, Mr McCauley said he was not deterred from getting back in the water.
“I swim every morning at Nuns Beach in town and we are still all going in,” he said.
Officers from the Victorian Fisheries Authority (VFA) have since taken the carcass to conduct further testing to determine what really happened to the shark.

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Either that or all these wars have woken up C'thulu.

 

[Del191229]

Either that or all these wars have woken up C'thulu.

Tbh I welcome him

 

[Only Forwards]

I have always said Bluey is right wing coded.

Queensland campaigners.

So I took a look into the dude that created Bluey.

And his earlier work does give some political vibes that's for sure.

 

[ferball]

Tbh I welcome him

"Learn to swim"

 

[ferball]

So I took a look into the dude that created Bluey.

And his earlier work does give some political vibes that's for sure.

That's actually really ****en good.

 

[Themanbun]

It is. However, out here in the West of Melbourne, as in way west in Werribee/ Point Cook area, the public transport is such that you can work in the city and have a relatively cheap/easy/regular service to get there.

I have five people in the house that all work in and around the city, and it is pretty good for all of us.

None of us drive into the city if we can avoid it.

I live in the area and the frequent disruptions to the PT services do make it difficult. And for those of us who can't afford to cop a respiratory infection every month or two it's not good at all.

But generally agree the vline is solid af. I don't touch metro.

Even Werribee/Point Cook is getting beyond the price range of a lot of families. They're all getting pushed out past Little River.

 

[Ligma]

PTV is expensive lol

 

[koshari]

Governments should never build massive infrastructure projects with generational benefits because they inevitably go over budget?

I note jury trials have returned after COVID though.

they go over budget because we dont have any in house departments that can build infrastructure anymore, so the private mobs line up and take turns fleecing us, many years ago the SEC, gas and fuel, PMG , Country roads board , board of works all built affordable infrastructure with extra capacity for the future.

100 years ago we built railways all over the state, now we cant even extend a line from broadmeadows/jacana/sunbury to the airport!

 

[Del191229]

they go over budget because we dont have any in house departments that can build infrastructure anymore, so the private mobs line up and take turns fleecing us, many years ago the SEC, gas and fuel, PMG , Country roads board , board of works all built affordable infrastructure with extra capacity for the future.

100 years ago we built railways all over the state, now we cant even extend a line from broadmeadows/jacana/sunbury to the airport!

100 per cent this.