Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[ferball]

Ironic that Nicko McBrain had a stroke. It was probably always gonna happen...


All the best Nicko.

 

[Del191229]

Vastly different cases.

Stacey Abrams alleged that there were discriminatory practices that created unfair barriers for black Georgians to vote. She also conceded the election.

Donald Trump still thinks the Georgia election was 'stolen' from him, and has thrown out a large number of wild accusations ranging from Democrats stuffing ballot boxes with fraudulent votes, to the "deep state" changing the voting tallies in voting machines, etc. While the results were still being tabulated, he also exerted pressure on Georgia state officials to simply "find" the votes he needed to take the lead.

All of the recent indictments Trump has been slapped with have merit, but the Georgia incidents are by far the most egregious and easily provable.

It's not a crime to think or say the election was stolen - but the exerting pressure bit most certainly is.

The irony of Rudy Giuliani being done on RICO is quite something too.

Hard to believe he wrapped up the Five Families in NYC using the self same laws.

 

[Del191229]

I think you’re smart enough to know the truth doesnt matter anymore, the whole trial is about to be turned into an episode in the run up to the election.
Trumps defence will be well the election was rigged, he’ll produce witness after witness more theatrical then the last, if judge tries to strike it down and Trump will just panda to the other 50% of Americans who already believe the systems rigged and this is more evidence. They’ll double down on voting for him.

Political trials are always a bad idea.

I don't see it as a political trial.

Reality is it was Republican staffers who refused to carry out his demands.

 

[Chadwiko]

I don't see it as a political trial.

This keeps being relevant:

 

[Del191229]

This keeps being relevant:

View attachment 1775804

Yep, its spot on.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

This keeps being relevant:

View attachment 1775804

It's like those who consistently downplay every one of Trump's transgressions, big or small, but spit blood about "the Biden crime family" and "Hunter's laptop".

 

[Del191229]

It's like those who consistently downplay every one of Trump's transgressions, big or small, but spit blood about "the Biden crime family" and "Hunter's laptop".

As I've long said, it is blindingly obvious that Trump stumbled onto the real proper lurk that a career operator like Biden had going in Ukraine.

 

[Chadwiko]

As I've long said, it is blindingly obvious that Trump stumbled onto the real proper lurk that a career operator like Biden had going in Ukraine.

I'm sorry but I really, really don't consider Joe Biden some kind of 'career operator' in terms of being corrupt or dodgy.

And before I continue, I want to stress at the outset so it's not weaponised against me; I'm not a big Joe Biden fan. I think he's far from a great President.

That said, I generally think that all the accusations of corruption and dodginess are the sole doings of Hunter, who does seem like a pretty shit human who has battled addiction (which is a legitimate disease tbf). Hunter is a known liar, scammer, and philanderer. So when Hunter is texting people saying shit like "hey I'm with the big guy and we want money", my inclination is to assume that Hunter is lying.

Until I see any independent and credible evidence that Joe Biden has been directly involved (instead of all such evidence to-date being through the filter of Hunter Biden), to me Joe remains a largely inoffensive, if not utterly boring and uninspiring, career centrist Democrat.

 

[Del191229]

I'm sorry but I really, really don't consider Joe Biden some kind of 'career operator' in terms of being corrupt or dodgy.

And before I continue, I want to stress at the outset so it's not weaponised against me; I'm not a big Joe Biden fan. I think he's far from a great President.

That said, I generally think that all the accusations of corruption and dodginess are the sole doings of Hunter, who does seem like a pretty s**t human who has battled addiction (which is a legitimate disease tbf). Hunter is a known liar, scammer, and philanderer. So when Hunter is texting people saying s**t like "hey I'm with the big guy and we want money", my inclination is to assume that Hunter is lying.

Until I see any independent and credible evidence that Joe Biden has been directly involved (instead of all such evidence to-date being through the filter of Hunter Biden), to me Joe remains a largely inoffensive, if not utterly boring and uninspiring, career centrist Democrat.

Anyone who has been in US politics this long and been this successful is by definition a corrupt career operator.

Especially a Senator for Delaware which is known as The Company State:

How Joe Biden helped build a financial system that’s great for Delaware banks and terrible for the rest of us

"Biden’s banking votes have stuck with him because their effects have stuck with us."

www.motherjones.com

You do Biden's loooooooong career a disservice by saying he was boring and uninspiring - he was at the centre or very influential on so many huge US issues over the decades from the racialised criminal justice policing on the 80s and 90s to Iraq etc.

As for Hunter, yes he's clearly got very serious health issues, but there's also a strong pattern here.

It gets complicated for Joe given he's lost kids before, but frankly he's at the point now where if he doesn't distance himself from this stuff, then you have to ask why.

FWIW what they were doing in Ukraine isn't particularly bad. Its garden variety influence peddling, nothing dramatic. Every member of the US Congress would have something similar going on ffs.

Nowhere near as crass as say Rod Blagojevich trying to sell Obama's Senate seat.

And they would have got away with it if it weren't for a force of nature like Trump blundering in to the situation in the worst possible fashion.

Old Joe is as corrupt as the rest of them, but not MORE corrupt.

He at least had the decency to do it offshore.

 

[Chadwiko]

Anyone who has been in US politics this long and been this successful is by definition a corrupt career operator.

Sorry, I just don't agree with this blanket approach.

I'm not under some false pretence that politics is wholesome and that corruption is rare. Don't get me wrong.

But there's a big difference between literal 'corruption', and the by-products of being a public figure in a capitalist system where access and power equates to financial reward.

For example, according to Joe Biden's tax records (which he released publicly, unlike Trump), he has a net-worth of approximately $9,000,000, which is massive for regular folks, but an absolute pittance compared to other 'career' politicians such as Nancy Pelosi on the left and Mitch McConnell on the right. A vast majority of Joe Biden's net-worth comes from the $8,000,000 book deal he signed after leaving office in 2016, too.

Again, is Biden perfect and innocent and wholesome and above reproach? No. I'm not suggesting that. But if he's "corrupt", then he's objectively bad at being corrupt as he's far from a wealthy man by modern American-aristocracy standards.

 

[Chadwiko]

Also, it bears repeating;

If someone complains about Hunter Biden (who has never/will never have a security clearance and doesn't represent the White House/United States in any capacity whatsoever) being dodgy, but has no qualms whatsoever with Ivanka and Jared using their formal roles in the White House to secure themselves massive personal-business deals with Saudi Arabia and China... then they are not a serious person.

 

[Del191229]

Sorry, I just don't agree with this blanket approach.

I'm not under some false pretence that politics is wholesome and that corruption is rare. Don't get me wrong.

But there's a big difference between literal 'corruption', and the by-products of being a public figure in a capitalist system where access and power equates to financial reward.

For example, according to Joe Biden's tax records (which he released publicly, unlike Trump), he has a net-worth of approximately $9,000,000, which is massive for regular folks, but an absolute pittance compared to other 'career' politicians such as Nancy Pelosi on the left and Mitch McConnell on the right. A vast majority of Joe Biden's net-worth comes from the $8,000,000 book deal he signed after leaving office in 2016, too.

Again, is Biden perfect and innocent and wholesome and above reproach? No. I'm not suggesting that. But if he's "corrupt", then he's objectively bad at being corrupt as he's far from a wealthy man by modern American-aristocracy standards.

Yeah man, that's why his kid ran point on the building the retirement fund in Ukraine.

Joe's a cagey old bugger, playing it smart is how he got so far.

Essentially your position is Joe didn't know what Hunter was doing and saying, which even if we accept is true, is a damning indictment on his suitability for high office.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Also, it bears repeating;

If someone complains about Hunter Biden (who has never/will never have a security clearance and doesn't represent the White House/United States in any capacity whatsoever) being dodgy, but has no qualms whatsoever with Ivanka and Jared using their formal roles in the White House to secure themselves massive personal-business deals with Saudi Arabia and China... then they are not a serious person.

This is more or less what Sam Harris said, and now a lot of conservative trolls now make it their mission to piss all over any podcast, interview, or video he features in.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Del191229]

Also, it bears repeating;

If someone complains about Hunter Biden (who has never/will never have a security clearance and doesn't represent the White House/United States in any capacity whatsoever) being dodgy, but has no qualms whatsoever with Ivanka and Jared using their formal roles in the White House to secure themselves massive personal-business deals with Saudi Arabia and China... then they are not a serious person.

Ivanka and Jared are scammy two bit operators like their Dad.

Hunter and Joe several levels of sophistication above them in how to do it.

 

[Chadwiko]

Essentially your position is Joe didn't know what Hunter was doing and saying, which even if we accept is true, is a damning indictment on his suitability for high office.

Happy to see any evidence that suggests Joe was in anyway involved in Hunter's Ukraine dealings. But absolutely not here to entertain flights-of-fancy.

 

[Del191229]

Happy to see any evidence that suggests Joe was in anyway involved in Hunter's Ukraine dealings. But absolutely not here to entertain flights-of-fancy.

Yeah nah man, the old feigning ignorance defence doesn't work.

If the Vice President's son (or ex Vice President) is going round the world gaining considerable financial advantage by trading on the family name, then it is incumbent on the father to put a stop to that.

Its corruption 101 stuff dude.

The old "Wasn't me, I didn't know anyfink about it guv" line doesn't wash.

In 2014, Hunter joined the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company, Burisma Holdings, where he was reportedly paid up to $50,000 (£38,000) per month.
At the time, his father was actively engaged in anti-corruption work in Ukraine.

This is as blatant a conflict of interest as is possible.

 

[Chadwiko]

Yeah nah man, the old feigning ignorance defence doesn't work.

Yeah, nah man.

1+1 don't equal banana.

As I've said, Hunter clearly dodgy, and clearly trading on his dear old Dad's name. But he's a grown man himself and Hunter being dodgy doesn't equate to Joe being dodgy.

 

[DesertRoo]

I don't see it as a political trial.

Reality is it was Republican staffers who refused to carry out his demands.

Of course it’s a political trial, the alleged abuse of power happened around a contested election, you can’t divorce the two, especially now he is the leading candidate for the Republican nomination.
Side note: pretty funny that he got done in a recording, that’s something trumps famous for recording every phone conversation. What a shit way to live.

Yeah nah man, the old feigning ignorance defence doesn't work.

If the Vice President's son (or ex Vice President) is going round the world gaining considerable financial advantage by trading on the family name, then it is incumbent on the father to put a stop to that.

Its corruption 101 stuff dude.

The old "Wasn't me, I didn't know anyfink about it guv" line doesn't wash.


This is as blatant a conflict of interest as is possible.

Lol, he paid his dads bills, of course there was no conflict of interest.

Hunter Biden complained 'half his salary' went on paying Joe's bills

In 2010, Joe Biden was earning $225,000-a-year as Vice President and he'd already made well over $100,000-a-year for decades prior as a senator and author.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Del191229]

As I've said, Hunter clearly dodgy, and clearly trading on his dear old Dad's name. But he's a grown man himself and Hunter being dodgy doesn't equate to Joe being dodgy.

Joe is a position where he has to avoid even the perception of conflicts like this.

I know you know this too, and I know that if it were Republicans you'd be losing your shit.

Anyway, I'm right so that's all that matters.

 

[Chadwiko]

Lol, he paid his dads bills, of course there was no conflict of interest.

Help me to understand this;

Conservatives love to talk about how Hunter Biden is a low-life, drug-addicted, piece of shit.

And yet, any time Hunter makes some random comment that relates to his dad, Conservatives also believe it without question and without hesitation?

Nah.

 

[Chadwiko]

I know you know this too, and I know that if it were Republicans you'd be losing your s**t.

Do you see me 'losing my shit' at Ivanka and Jared? Nup. So, we're already proved that is incorrect.

Here's a summary of what I believe, based on the currently available information;

• Hunter has battled addiction and made some extremely poor life choices
• Hunter clearly used his father's name to his own benefit to secure high-paid jobs he was wholly unqualified for
• Hunter is not someone whose word I trust one way or another, especially in instances where he's tried to suggest that his father is involved in his business dealings in attempts to secure himself financial gains.

 

[DesertRoo]

Help me to understand this;

Conservatives love to talk about how Hunter Biden is a low-life, drug-addicted, piece of s**t.

And yet, any time Hunter makes some random comment that relates to his dad, Conservatives also believe it without question and without hesitation?

Nah.

Lol, Lion Hall group even got its bank account shut down for posible fraud, there is a money trail.

It was so in the open Biden could litterally say he got a DA from another country fired because he was looking into Bursma, this is what real power looks like.

 

[Del191229]

Of course it’s a political trial, the alleged abuse of power happened around a contested election, you can’t divorce the two, especially now he is the leading candidate for the Republican nomination.
Side note: pretty funny that he got done in a recording, that’s something trumps famous for recording every phone conversation. What a s**t way to live.

It's not contested though.

The current GOP Governor of Georgia says it wasn't stolen.

The only person saying it was stolen is Trump.

he lost fair and square.

Same as he won 2016 fair and square and only idiots/partisan dolts believe the Democrat spin about Russian "interference" in any way impacting the result.

 

[Del191229]

Help me to understand this;

Conservatives love to talk about how Hunter Biden is a low-life, drug-addicted, piece of s**t.

And yet, any time Hunter makes some random comment that relates to his dad, Conservatives also believe it without question and without hesitation?

Nah.

They made a bad strategic error focusing on this element first.

It means most people - myself included initially - are going to say "Well of course Biden will stick by his sick son, especially after what happened with Beau".