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SaintsSeptember

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And Trotsky who seemed like one of the decent ones too. The campaigners seem to rise to the top by any means possible. The autocratic monsters do what ever it takes I guess. If it takes killing to hold power they kill. Communism is a great idea on paper but doesn't suit humans who are naturally greedy by nature and power hungry. Democratic socialism is the best model because it allows the greedy to get lots but not oo much that it hurts others.

Norway should be a global ideal but for some reason we fetishise that US model of climbing over everyone else's broken bodies to get the most for ourselves. When I was young I worked at Myer and we had door buster sales....you would literally see little old ladies bowled over on escalators while people walked over them and people gouge each others faces for the one $1 TV they had. The US system reminds me of that. I remember one lady lost a finger the last year they had them.

You guys are hilarious, you name some of our current politicians you don't like and act like they are total scum, then talk about Trotsky and Lenin as if they are "decent".

This book is named as the source of the following statement.

Trotsky bears a great deal of responsibility both for the victory of the Red Army in the civil war, and for the establishment of a one-party authoritarian state with its apparatus for ruthlessly suppressing dissent... He was an ideologist and practitioner of the Red Terror. He despised 'bourgeois democracy'; he believed that spinelessness and soft-heartedness would destroy the revolution, and that the suppression of the propertied classes and political opponents would clear the historical arena for socialism. He was the initiator of concentration camps, compulsory 'labour camps,' and the militarization of labour, and the state takeover of trade unions. Trotsky was implicated in many practices which would become standard in the Stalin era, including summary executions.
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Perhaps they were right, perhaps enforced communism is an ideal, the means to the end would seem to go against most of the ideals i read from posters here though.
 

gringo2011

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One thing we can all agree on, Hitler was a psychopath (classical) who used fear and force to realise his "dreams", which ended in nightmares and vast destruction, death and devastation in Europe. A ruthless butcher.

The Enabling Law allowed him free reign and he simply removed all opposition. Communists, Jews, homosexuals, Slavs, dissident academics, political opponents, Gypsies and 500,000 ordinary Germans who opposed Nazi ideology found their way into concentration camps and slave labour programs. Not many had a return ticket.

Even the SA, his collaborators, didn't escape as they represented competition and support, at the same time. The "Night of the Long Knives", was their reward.

It's like my experience of corrupt coppers, Gringo. Like bananas, they start off green, hard and full of promise. They end up yellow, black, rotten and soft.

I reckon guys like the ones I mentioned are blackened bananas that paint themselves yellow until they can spew arsenic into everyone.
 

gringo2011

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You guys are hilarious, you name some of our current politicians you don't like and act like they are total scum, then talk about Trotsky and Lenin as if they are "decent".

This book is named as the source of the following statement.

Trotsky bears a great deal of responsibility both for the victory of the Red Army in the civil war, and for the establishment of a one-party authoritarian state with its apparatus for ruthlessly suppressing dissent... He was an ideologist and practitioner of the Red Terror. He despised 'bourgeois democracy'; he believed that spinelessness and soft-heartedness would destroy the revolution, and that the suppression of the propertied classes and political opponents would clear the historical arena for socialism. He was the initiator of concentration camps, compulsory 'labour camps,' and the militarization of labour, and the state takeover of trade unions. Trotsky was implicated in many practices which would become standard in the Stalin era, including summary executions.
-------------------
Perhaps they were right, perhaps enforced communism is an ideal, the means to the end would seem to go against most of the ideals i read from posters here though.

I'm obviously a bit unknowledgeable about communist heads, I always thought Trotsky was a moderate and Lenin was a campaigner.
 

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MUFKilda

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Well played in the first test: a tremendous bowling effort by Lyon and Cummins, in addition to Smith's century in each innings. What a fightback, after being in deep trouble in your first innings. It's typical England: squander our chance then collapse. So often we lack the mental strength.

England under pressure already.
 

CursingFijian

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Well played in the first test: a tremendous bowling effort by Lyon and Cummins, in addition to Smith's century in each innings. What a fightback, after being in deep trouble in your first innings. It's typical England: squander our chance then collapse. So often we lack the mental strength.

England under pressure already.
 

MUFKilda

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That's very good, I must admit. However, does Vegemite really taste much stronger than Marmite? I must admit I'm a 'Sheila' and can't abide Marmite, it's horrendous stuff. The only thing yeast is good for is beer production....ask any woman ;)
 

Drake Huggins

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Well played in the first test: a tremendous bowling effort by Lyon and Cummins, in addition to Smith's century in each innings. What a fightback, after being in deep trouble in your first innings. It's typical England: squander our chance then collapse. So often we lack the mental strength.

England under pressure already.
Don't underestimate the World Cup hangover effect, MUFKilda. Every winner of the cup has suffered it.

It ain't over yet. 4 tests to go. You never know. Think 2005. Poms thrashed in the first one. Look how it ended up. Many sleepless nights ahead.
 
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