Discussion Random Discussion

[Stan_Darsh72]

So it wasn’t quarantine? It was hotel night manager? Nothing to do with people in quarantine being let out? Just out of interest why do you think ours spread from this guy but Sydney’s didn’t with more freedoms after that pub fiasco?

The reports say the manager did nothing wrong or suss so it could have been as simple as touching a plate that someone in quarantine had touched or the manager shared a lighter.

My guess for why it spread was that the guards lived in areas of a higher population density, had multi generational households, Melbournes road network and trains are a lot less of a cluster **** then Sydneys and sheer bad luck.

Sydney had a cabbie driving around for 10 days with it, the ruby princess and the pub, Metro sydney got stupidly lucky and were at least aided that it is more of a fractured city/hard to navigate metro area compared to Melbourne.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Are we talking Rydges or Stanford?

The Rydges, which was apparently was the one that exploded in the northern suburbs.

 

[plugger66]

The reports say the manager did nothing wrong or suss so it could have been as simple as touching a plate that someone in quarantine had touched or the manager shared a lighter.

My guess for why it spread was that the guards lived in areas of a higher population density, had multi generational households, Melbournes road network and trains are a lot less of a cluster fu** then Sydneys and sheer bad luck.

Sydney had a cabbie driving around for 10 days with it, the ruby princess and the pub, Metro sydney got stupidly lucky and were at least aided that it is more of a fractured city/hard to navigate metro area compared to Melbourne.

No mention of better contract tracing. Always pure luck for those who rate Dan and always valid reasons for those who don’t rate him. By the way dan and everyone did a great job in the first wave. Happy to admit that. Not falling for it a second time though.

 

[plugger66]

The Rydges, which was apparently was the one that exploded in the northern suburbs.

Why are we having an enquiry then if there is a simple reason for it. Seems a huge waste of time and money.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

No mention of better contract tracing. Always pure luck for those who rate Dan and always valid reasons for those who don’t rate him. By the way dan and everyone did a great job in the first wave. Happy to admit that. Not falling for it a second time though.

The contract tracing here was one of the most complex in the world, however NSW had more more team spread aobut (due to Sydney beiing as i said a more fractured city) and NSW sent a team down to take ideas from our own

I also see you ignored all my other points.

Why are we having an enquiry then if there is a simple reason for it. Seems a huge waste of time and money.

Because that is what governments should do. Enquire when things go wrong.

 

[plugger66]

The contract tracing here was one of the most complex in the world, however NSW had more more team spread aobut (due to Sydney beiing as i said a more fractured city) and NSW sent a team down to take ideas from our own

I also see you ignored all my other points.


Because that is what governments should do. Enquire when things go wrong.

Looks like it’s and open and shut case. Complete accident. No idea why people are quitting then. Also I was sure Victoria admitted our contract tracing wasn’t up to the nsw standard. Again looks like I’m wrong. They learnt off us. We as a state are more unlucky than the saints.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Looks like it’s and open and shut case. Complete accident. No idea why people are quitting then. Also I was sure Victoria admitted our contract tracing wasn’t up to the nsw standard. Again looks like I’m wrong. They learnt off us. We as a state are more unlucky than the saints.

And you again ignored my points again, can you respond to all my points and not just focusing on one of them?

We did admit it was not up to scratch, then we improved it ASAP and did a good job that NSW took ideas from us.

 

[Yawkey way]

In the end the real truth comes out. Labor versus liberal. You try to make it all impartial but you just could so again all your opinions are based on what that silly lanky man tells you. And nice opinion about scomo agreeing with most things. Emotive completely made up rubbish.

Back to the expert Scientific people again. I’m amazed some keep going back to that. This is the same people who gave us their expert work that were there when we got the second wave. The lanky prick then repeats the same crap he also said before the second wave like if we get out of this to early there will be another wave. Exact words he used before the second wave yet there are people still trusting him. The same man that was so weak initially about the blm protest. The same man who is all over everything but apparently knew nothing about security guard use in quarantine and has let others hang for that. Then our contract tracing was no where near the standard of nsw yet we should have had the most experience because we had the most cases And now the family of the child who went to school early are saying dhhs told them misinformation. How many things can stuff up before you realise this idiot has no idea. I would love just one fact to suggest dan is all over this. To me he has stage fright because he is struggling to back his departments It looks from the outside He doesn’t trust them to do their job properly.

This is the thing. I’m not even slightly advantaged by reopening. The point is you either trust your departments or don’t. It’s always a few more days. Well unfortunately some business are a few more days away from going broke. I’ve been accused of being selfish yet all I want is business to open up for their sake not mine. When the pubs opened up last time I didn’t even go and probably won’t go again this time.

everyone who keeps wanting to trust dan always comes up with the what about this and that scenario. How about what about saying we just need to trust the departments and not wait for the perfect scenario.

and in dans view it’s not one persons fault. It’s others but not him. That scenario seems implausible for someone who is all over everything. Something many seem to acknowledge

You keep saying Andrews is all over everything, he’s only as good as the advice and briefings he receives.

Jenny mikakos was the responsible minister and personally I think even she was stiff given how the events unfolded. Anyway I just want to give you some perspective on who from DHS May have spoken to the family. While I have no inside information I did work at the department of premier and cabinet for several years and have extensive experience and knowledge at the commonwealth level. Just as an example a temp at say centrelink would be classified as admin services officer level 3 or similar. If you ring centrelink you may get a 3 or a 4 and almost certainly if you attend in person that’s the level who will serve you. So $60000 - $70000 junior public servant. The contact with DHS almost certainly will have been at a relatively low level maybe even a contract tracing team member who would be 50/50 to be a temp. They were looking for temporary transfers from within the public service and people on job keeper I heard.

Its a question of training and competence, it sounds crazy but it’s not that difficult to give basic advice and answer basic questions as long as the appropriate training is provided. You’d be outraged if I told you this was handled by someone even in middle management on $110000 - $120000 let lone $250000 plus. No business works like that, so the question here is was appropriate training provided?. How are contract tracing and the DHS teams structured who answered the query, who supervises them etc.

This just exposes how difficult it is, you’re only as strong as the weakest link so even when people are doing exactly what they’re meant to do human error can still torpedo you. Things look fine so far and we’ve dodged a bullet but it could just have easily been another outbreak which would have set us back again.

Now how is Dan Andrews involved? What’s his role except to call in his minister and ask the hard question of what the hell happened. He or she will in turn call the departmental secretary who will task a deputy secretary who will pass it to an executive officer who will and so on until some person on $80000 tells you the correct person dealt with the query, they were properly trained and it was a brain fade/miscommunication/language problem etc.

He has to back his ministers and they have to back their departments but he‘s right to wait until his minister tells him we’ve got it covered. Also NSW had a different structure in place when covid hit, it was more devolved into regions like the NDIS. It worked well for them as it turned out because they had a better understanding of the communities they’re were dealing with etc but again it was more good luck than planning or reacting to covid. People shouting do what NSW do have no idea, you can’t just pivot to that system or gain the knowledge they had overnight.

Dead wrong on the politics too, because I don’t bag trump I’m a trump supporter now I’m a labour man at state level for the same reason. I actually didn’t rate dan prior to the crisis in fact I used to call him the undertaker, but in all fairness I think he’s done a pretty good job but I’d say the same thing about all the premiers.

 

[plugger66]

And you again ignored my points again, can you respond to all my points and not just focusing on one of them?

We did admit it was not up to scratch, then we improved it ASAP and did a good job that NSW took ideas from us.

You hear things I don’t. All I heard we went to them. Now I’ve Heard a family say dhhs miscommunicated information which meant a kid went to school when he shouldn’t. Of course they could be lying especially as we are just unlucky. Just on Sydney and how you say it’s more fractured well that pub was in the west which has a similar type of population to our west yet bigger but they contained the outbreak. Luck I suppose

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The reports say the manager did nothing wrong or suss so it could have been as simple as touching a plate that someone in quarantine had touched or the manager shared a lighter.

My guess for why it spread was that the guards lived in areas of a higher population density, had multi generational households, Melbournes road network and trains are a lot less of a cluster fu** then Sydneys and sheer bad luck.

Sydney had a cabbie driving around for 10 days with it, the ruby princess and the pub, Metro sydney got stupidly lucky and were at least aided that it is more of a fractured city/hard to navigate metro area compared to Melbourne.

DHHS giving their normal "firm" directions.

Hotel workers didn't isolate after COVID outbreak; guards 'slept on job'

A security guard distracted by his phone was blamed for a biosecurity breach in Victoria's hotel quarantine program, an inquiry hears, while the manager of the Rydges hotel details his response to an outbreak at the venue.

www.abc.net.au

 

[plugger66]

You keep saying Andrews is all over everything, he’s only as good as the advice and briefings he receives.

Jenny mikakos was the responsible minister and personally I think even she was stiff given how the events unfolded. Anyway I just want to give you some perspective on who from DHS May have spoken to the family. While I have no inside information I did work at the department of premier and cabinet for several years and have extensive experience and knowledge at the commonwealth level. Just as an example a temp at say centrelink would be classified as admin services officer level 3 or similar. If you ring centrelink you may get a 3 or a 4 and almost certainly if you attend in person that’s the level who will serve you. So $60000 - $70000 junior public servant. The contact with DHS almost certainly will have been at a relatively low level maybe even a contract tracing team member who would be 50/50 to be a temp. They were looking for temporary transfers from within the public service and people on job keeper I heard.

Its a question of training and competence, it sounds crazy but it’s not that difficult to give basic advice and answer basic questions as long as the appropriate training is provided. You’d be outraged if I told you this was handled by someone even in middle management on $110000 - $120000 let lone $250000 plus. No business works like that, so the question here is was appropriate training provided?. How are contract tracing and the DHS teams structured who answered the query, who supervises them etc.

This just exposes how difficult it is, you’re only as strong as the weakest link so even when people are doing exactly what there meant to do human error can still torpedo you. Things look fine so far and we’ve dodged a bullet but it could just have easily been another outbreak which would have set us back again.

Now how is Dan Andrews involved? What’s his role except to call in his minister and ask the hard question of what the hell happened. He or she will in turn call the departmental secretary who will task a deputy secretary who will pass it to an executive officer who will and so on until some person on $80000 tells you the correct person dealt with the query, they were properly trained and it was a brain fade/miscommunication/language problem etc.

He has to back his ministers and they have to back their departments but he‘s right to wait until his minister tells him we’ve got it covered. Also NSW had a different structure in place when covid hit, it was more devolved into regions like the NDIS. It worked well for them as it turned out because they had a better understanding of the communities they were dealing with etc but again it was more good luck than planning or reacting to covid. People shouting do what NSW do have no idea, you can’t just pivot to that system or gain the knowledge they had overnight.

Dead wrong on the politics too, because I don’t bag trump I’m a trump supporter now I’m a labour man at state level for the same reason. I actually didn’t rate dan prior to the crisis in fact I used to call him the undertaker, but in all fairness I think he’s done a pretty good job but I’d say the same thing about all the premiers.

No worries.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It is a circus that we need our Premier to read out the daily numbers, and we have to have the sign language person there for added drama.
( Most deaf people can read. However , apparently many people living in Victoria can't understand a word Dan is saying ).

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

It is a circus that we need our Premier to read out the daily numbers, and we have to have the sign language person there for added drama.
( Most deaf people can read. However , apparently many people living in Victoria can't understand a word Dan is saying ).

I assume the sign language people have to be there for all government things in case the tv graphics dont work.

 

[gringo2011]

This is the thing. I’m not even slightly advantaged by reopening. The point is you either trust your departments or don’t. It’s always a few more days. Well unfortunately some business are a few more days away from going broke. I’ve been accused of being selfish yet all I want is business to open up for their sake not mine. When the pubs opened up last time I didn’t even go and probably won’t go again this time.

everyone who keeps wanting to trust dan always comes up with the what about this and that scenario. How about what about saying we just need to trust the departments and not wait for the perfect scenario.

and in dans view it’s not one persons fault. It’s others but not him. That scenario seems implausible for someone who is all over everything. Something many seem to acknowledge

Before COVID19 there were plenty on the brink already. We were in a recession before. I know people who are doing better now than before and some who are surviving on government money. Gerry Harvey from Harvey Norman demanded reopening before we even had a lock down, started doing better than before now he won't say a bad word about it. Some cafes are actually making heaps doing take aways. Some industries have been absolutely massacred like travel and hospitality. Even if both reopened they can't do much, they are literally better off on handouts. No overseas trips or packed venues anytime soon. Even in NSW they have limited dining and venue openings.

No-one knows 100% the best way but from the fact that they have administered one of the best outcomes of any place in the world they must have earned some credits. Daniel Andrews has apologised and taken responsibility a lot. You want him to beg for you? What do you mean he's all over everything, he's the Premier so the ultimate decision maker but politicians just work off advice from their staff. He's not a pandemic expert, that's why they have officials from the health department comment on the health side of things.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

DHHS giving their normal "firm" directions.

Hotel workers didn't isolate after COVID outbreak; guards 'slept on job'

A security guard distracted by his phone was blamed for a biosecurity breach in Victoria's hotel quarantine program, an inquiry hears, while the manager of the Rydges hotel details his response to an outbreak at the venue.

www.abc.net.au

The DHHS needs to sort out their communication, cant be that hard to send out Emails saying to stay home.

 

[gringo2011]

Why are we having an enquiry then if there is a simple reason for it. Seems a huge waste of time and money.

To appease a feral media who tried their best to undermine a government official during a health crisis because it gets people to look and then others buy ad space. It was becoming a major distraction while urgent health messages needed to be immediately directed to the public. You couldn't have had a less helpful media if you tried. They are like a bunch of salacious gossip mongers trying to create moral outrage at any cost. News is meant to be impartially delivered, they use editorialising to direct outrage.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The DHHS needs to sort out their communication, cant be that hard to send out Emails saying to stay home.

Apparently they have changed their system , so that if a family is involved the family gets ONE case worker, instead of different case workers for different people. They are also co-ordinating the results so family's get their results at the same time.

So this family, under last week's system, had several children tested.
Results came in for some of the kids, and they said they could go to school.
Not getting a result for the kid who tested positive , they decided the other kid could go to school.
The mother showed the results of the kids who had tested negative to the school, who had known the family was being tested.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Apparently they have changed their system , so that if a family is involved the family gets ONE case worker, instead of different case workers for different people. They are also co-ordinating the results so family's get their results at the same time.

So this family, under last week's system, had several children tested.
Results came in for some of the kids, and they said they could go to school.
Not getting a result for the kid who tested positive , they decided the other kid could go to school.
The mother showed the results of the kids who had tested negative to the school, who had known the family was being tested.

One case worker for a family makes sense but this whole family of spreading the test results seems like a bungle.

The DHHS has made this more complex then it really needed to be.

 

[Pardon me]

Well done VIC! staged openings and easing of restrictions from midnight Tuesday.
Just need to be cautiously optimistic people don’t act like this is over and keep doing preventative measures.

 

[plugger66]

Before COVID19 there were plenty on the brink already. We were in a recession before. I know people who are doing better now than before and some who are surviving on government money. Gerry Harvey from Harvey Norman demanded reopening before we even had a lock down, started doing better than before now he won't say a bad word about it. Some cafes are actually making heaps doing take aways. Some industries have been absolutely massacred like travel and hospitality. Even if both reopened they can't do much, they are literally better off on handouts. No overseas trips or packed venues anytime soon. Even in NSW they have limited dining and venue openings.

No-one knows 100% the best way but from the fact that they have administered one of the best outcomes of any place in the world they must have earned some credits. Daniel Andrews has apologised and taken responsibility a lot. You want him to beg for you? What do you mean he's all over everything, he's the Premier so the ultimate decision maker but politicians just work off advice from their staff. He's not a pandemic expert, that's why they have officials from the health department comment on the health side of things.

You love an excuse. Could be no basis in it but it’s an excuse to give dan and the fools an out. You know people doing better? Are you serious? That is pathetic. For all doing better multiple a hundred or a thousand doing worth. Come on you are better than that crap.

I don’t want him to beg to me. I want the labor party to replace him like he has replaced others. I know it won’t happen but I will type and say things that just make me feel better. It’s selfish but it’s better than actually breaking the rules. And more importantly it’s how I feel. It isn’t me getting sucked in by this Murdoch crap or channel 7 news. It’s just my opinion on the evidence I hear and read on all platforms.

 

[plugger66]

To appease a feral media who tried their best to undermine a government official during a health crisis because it gets people to look and then others buy ad space. It was becoming a major distraction while urgent health messages needed to be immediately directed to the public. You couldn't have had a less helpful media if you tried. They are like a bunch of salacious gossip mongers trying to create moral outrage at any cost. News is meant to be impartially delivered, they use editorialising to direct outrage.

Do dan organised it to appease the media? Ok then. It wasn’t that he was actually worried that there was problems? Strange when it’s obvious there was and it seems still problems. By the way just spoke to a gloating tigers supporter for 20 minutes. Michael roach can be very annoying and yes I’m bignoting I spoke to him. I need to in the times of being depressed.

 

[George]

To appease a feral media who tried their best to undermine a government official during a health crisis because it gets people to look and then others buy ad space. It was becoming a major distraction while urgent health messages needed to be immediately directed to the public. You couldn't have had a less helpful media if you tried. They are like a bunch of salacious gossip mongers trying to create moral outrage at any cost. News is meant to be impartially delivered, they use editorialising to direct outrage.

Liberals

 

[StFly]

Even the WHO have said that Victoria was unlucky and didn't do anything that should have made it blow up here more than Sydney or Brisbane. In Italy some cities geographically close have had extremely different outcomes with similar measures. It's like a bushfire throwing embers out. The right conditions like cold weather, close confines etc etc can all contribute. People doing the wrong thing also doesn't help.

Because it affects people, people bring variance.

 

[gringo2011]

You love an excuse. Could be no basis in it but it’s an excuse to give dan and the fools an out. You know people doing better? Are you serious? That is pathetic. For all doing better multiple a hundred or a thousand doing worth. Come on you are better than that crap.

I don’t want him to beg to me. I want the labor party to replace him like he has replaced others. I know it won’t happen but I will type and say things that just make me feel better. It’s selfish but it’s better than actually breaking the rules. And more importantly it’s how I feel. It isn’t me getting sucked in by this Murdoch crap or channel 7 news. It’s just my opinion on the evidence I hear and read on all platforms.

I don't make excuses, I just don't need to have a head roll during pandemic. He's done a good job IMO. He hasn't to you that's fine.

Why replace him when it's just a head role when it would have made no difference to the outcome? Seems like petty vengeance for an uncontrollable pandemic. It's like throwing goats in a volcano to stave off eruptions.

I still reckon my analogy of a ship's captain that lead us into a storm but at least had the balls to hold the wheel and stay up on deck and take the hits from the waves a the bolts of lightening. Scomo was smart in a marketing sense because he completely stepped back and let health officials take all correspondence about COVID and had his ministers do a political blame job on the states for problems with the outbreaks and economy.

To me one is leadership, one is doing a Captain Blight and hiding under the bed when shit gets serious. We both have different ideas about what constitutes leadership.

 

[plugger66]

Liberals

Need an hilarious button. For someone who basically thought this virus was completely overrated it’s strange actually weird you believe in everything sill dan does. But of course you look at both sides and my mum is a multi millionaire