Discussion Random Discussion

[gringo2011]

I voted to remain in the EU and believe Brexit will prove a disaster on many levels. The free movement of people within the EU nations is a different issue from refugees/asylum seekers from outside the EU, yet you are conflating them, as many did here in the referendum. EU citizens in the UK who are here under the free movement principle are net contributors to the UK economy, and once outside the EU the UK will still have a duty under international law to those seeking asylum from elsewhere. The refugees at Calais, for example are from countries like Syria and Iraq; the latter being people we definitely have a duty to help, given the UK played a big role in creating their plight.

I don't think the UN Human Rights Council is a joke at all. The US also has very difficult questions to answer on human rights of course, from detention without trial to the use of torture, and Trump doesn't want to answer those questions as he ratchets up those policies. The fact war criminal Netanyahu is so thrilled with America's decision to withdraw is very telling also. He and Trump are very much cut from the same cloth.

Nobody is denying that the US government has a duty to look after its own citizens, but it needn't be a zero sum game. Less fortunate people from around the world having gaining a better life doesn't necessarily mean America has to lose out. On the contrary, it can be a win-win; America is almost entirely an immigrant nation and has reaped the rewards.

Yannis Varoufakis had his issues with the EU but didn't think leaving was the answer and he more than most is uniquely qualified to understand the ramifications of it.

I have met a couple of French guys who are working out here and they are urban young people who are very anti EU. One is an electrician from Normandy who was saying that the work for French electricians is really hard to get because they get a van load of Poles or Romanians who will do the same work for cash and sleep in their cars. He's doing crap work here and reckons he's better off. The other guy is a Parisian double degree holder in law and some kind of economics subject. He was saying that once you finish degrees there aren't jobs and France only has tourist work for people under 30. He blames the EU which might be misplaced anger but again he's here doing shit work and reckons he's much better off here. He said he knows he'll never own a house or have security anyway.

I was in London for Brexit, it was a pretty interesting time, the BBC and UK media generally were very mischievous and lead peoples opinion. Farrage and Boris Johnson were like Trump where they were celebrities that took up an inordinate amount of attention on TV and gave them a much louder voice.

Israel is a rogue nation these days, the amount of time their politics are pushed by the US is really ugly. I think US citizens believed in the righteousness of their cause once, these days supporting countries with terrible human rights records and their very see through oil grabs have made a lot of people loose faith.

 

[gringo2011]

Just come on to say good bye - as I am deleting my account. I am spending far too much time on here and dealing with some forumites and the way they communicate is doing my head in. Honestly if they spoke in public like they type, there wouldnt be too many getting about with teeth.

Don't go man, I've probably been rude to you in the past but didn't mean to push you out. You are a welcome voice even if we have different ideas at times. It's a broad church on bigfooty, we need all types of ideas. It's pretty frustrating times and tempers are a bit frayed but don't take it personally.

 

[MUFKilda]

Yannis Varoufakis had his issues with the EU but didn't think leaving was the answer and he more than most is uniquely qualified to understand the ramifications of it.

I have met a couple of French guys who are working out here and they are urban young people who are very anti EU. One is an electrician from Normandy who was saying that the work for French electricians is really hard to get because they get a van load of Poles or Romanians who will do the same work for cash and sleep in their cars. He's doing crap work here and reckons he's better off. The other guy is a Parisian double degree holder in law and some kind of economics subject. He was saying that once you finish degrees there aren't jobs and France only has tourist work for people under 30. He blames the EU which might be misplaced anger but again he's here doing shit work and reckons he's much better off here. He said he knows he'll never own a house or have security anyway.

I was in London for Brexit, it was a pretty interesting time, the BBC and UK media generally were very mischievous and lead peoples opinion. Farrage and Boris Johnson were like Trump where they were celebrities that took up an inordinate amount of attention on TV and gave them a much louder voice.

Israel is a rogue nation these days, the amount of time their politics are pushed by the US is really ugly. I think US citizens believed in the righteousness of their cause once, these days supporting countries with terrible human rights records and their very see through oil grabs have made a lot of people loose faith.

The EU certainly isn't perfect; it's a massive job getting agreement between 28 countries, but on balance I think it's better to work from the inside. The right wing Brexiteers want us out so they can abolish the social protections and environmental protections of the EU, which they regard as a socialist conspiracy. You can guarantee that Conservative governments post-Brexit will start the onslaught on these things, whilst claiming it's all for own good of course. We will certainly take a hit economically: just yesterday Airbus announced it may leave.

 

[Yawkey way]

Do you have a bit of Quaker blood? We had some folks head to the states. Ours were aristocracy so the ones that went there were the weird ones that they wanted hidden....George Bush is somehow i the same family line as me. Some others were somehow invoiced in Salem witch hunts. My dad has always bragged about having been related to Jane Seymour who was married to Henry the 8th, we couldn't find any evidence of it other than every kid for hundreds of years has carried Seymour as one of their middle names. Poor ******s.

We looked his family history up and they made all their money when the Germans and British were fighting at some point and they manufactured musical instrument and had a monopoly. His family was literally the world's largest manufacturers of Jew's harps at one point...like that hillbilly mouth harp thing....too funny. He had a few titled people. My mum's side had the aristocratic history though, it was pretty interesting to look up.[/QUOlong.
Yes they were related to Penn by marriage but they weren't Quakers for long.

You can see the records from Pennsylvania and their Methodist before too long.

One on the women on my line at that time was described in royalty in america as the daughter of kings and emperor's. Her line goes straight back edward 111 and beyond its ridiculous she was related to 13 of the 17 magna carta sureties, Charlemagne the old Scottish kings it looks like a piss take but it isn't.

She was a distant relation of Washington and capt. Lewis as well.

My mothers line is interesting as well but very British, bradford mill owners, stone masons things like that.

In a way it's pretty boring I'm about as white as you can get. My wife's the one with really interesting heritage and a surprising racial mix.

I thought I might find some skeletons but no, I have a cousin in the states who is really into the whole thing.

Her research just confirmed mine but she has better access to grave sites, pictures and records etc which she has sent to me.

If you have one or two famous people other's research their lives, study their history and background etc that doesn't hurt either.

 

[Yawkey way]

Just come on to say good bye - as I am deleting my account. I am spending far too much time on here and dealing with some forumites and the way they communicate is doing my head in. Honestly if they spoke in public like they type, there wouldnt be too many getting about with teeth.

I often think that, it's just an internet forum and people sometimes push your buttons.

Don't go just take a break if you need to.

I had never posted on any forum before bigfooty, I must admit i was pretty surprised even though I had read it for years before joining.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

The women's state of origin game last night was pretty good.

 

[VDS66]

Yannis Varoufakis had his issues with the EU but didn't think leaving was the answer and he more than most is uniquely qualified to understand the ramifications of it.

I have met a couple of French guys who are working out here and they are urban young people who are very anti EU. One is an electrician from Normandy who was saying that the work for French electricians is really hard to get because they get a van load of Poles or Romanians who will do the same work for cash and sleep in their cars. He's doing crap work here and reckons he's better off. The other guy is a Parisian double degree holder in law and some kind of economics subject. He was saying that once you finish degrees there aren't jobs and France only has tourist work for people under 30. He blames the EU which might be misplaced anger but again he's here doing shit work and reckons he's much better off here. He said he knows he'll never own a house or have security anyway.

I was in London for Brexit, it was a pretty interesting time, the BBC and UK media generally were very mischievous and lead peoples opinion. Farrage and Boris Johnson were like Trump where they were celebrities that took up an inordinate amount of attention on TV and gave them a much louder voice.

Israel is a rogue nation these days, the amount of time their politics are pushed by the US is really ugly. I think US citizens believed in the righteousness of their cause once, these days supporting countries with terrible human rights records and their very see through oil grabs have made a lot of people loose faith.

True but theres a lot of very rich Jewish Americans funding Israel.

A mate of mine was working in West Palm Florida fit a multi- billionaire Jewish guy.

He had a direct line to the Israeli defence minister.

Took a call in the car one day and he asked the minister who his money was bombing... Or words to that effect.

 

[VDS66]

I often think that, it's just an internet forum and people sometimes push your buttons.

Don't go just take a break if you need to.

I had never posted on any forum before bigfooty, I must admit i was pretty surprised even though I had read it for years before joining.

It has changed to be honest.

 

[sunny3193]

Seriously that's just liberal rubbish ahead of the mid terms, you should examine all the facts.

I don't see Britain taking all those refugees at Calais, wasn't a big part of brexit about immigration and controlling your borders.

The unhrc is a joke why should the US be lectured to by some of worst human rights offenders?.

The US government has a responsibility to act on behalf of it's own citizens be that securing the border, security, trade, defence or monetary policy.

Check the stats on refugee resettlement, things may have changed recently with Europe being flooded with people. However for many years there would have been no program without the US, Australia and Canada.

I'm no great fan of trump but some of the reporting by liberal media is just utter garbage.

WAPO and NYT are not rubbish.
And neither are particularly liberal.
But both are very critical of Trump.
I suggest you read their coverage.
(I will concede that WAPO has strong views on Trump (Democracy dies in Darkness), but even then it has continual op ed’s from pro Trump supporters).

Over the last 18 months I have watched MSNBC move from being mildly left of centre to highly critical of Trump. I have watched Joe Scarborough and Steve Schmidt exit the Republican Party.
I have watched the same phenomena on CNN, ABC & CBS.
I suggest you tune in to any of these networks and watch their coverage.

None of them are liberal media.

But if it is utter garbage and bias that you want, look to Fox.
Trump TV.
State Media.
Sean Hannity and Steve Doocey do not have a either a spine or a pair of balls between them. Both being the archetypical sycophants that they are.

If you want bias, and utter garbage, look to the Trump enablers.
Look to the spineless sycophants within the GOP, who say nothing because their tax package, their stacking of judicial appointments, their seats in Congress or their congressional majorities are too precious.
Look to Ryan or McConnell.
Look to Nunes or Goertz.

The great Judas’s of the GOP, the party of Lincoln, founded in 1854 as a party of freedom and inspiration to all.

Don’t look to the so called liberal media.
You’re looking in the wrong place.

 

[Yawkey way]

WAPO and NYT are not rubbish.
And neither are particularly liberal.
But both are very critical of Trump.
I suggest you read their coverage.
(I will concede that WAPO has strong views on Trump (Democracy dies in Darkness), but even then it has continual op ed’s from pro Trump supporters).

Over the last 18 months I have watched MSNBC move from being mildly left of centre to highly critical of Trump. I have watched Joe Scarborough and Steve Schmidt exit the Republican Party.
I have watched the same phenomena on CNN, ABC & CBS.
I suggest you tune in to any of these networks and watch their coverage.

None of them are liberal media.

But if it is utter garbage and bias that you want, look to Fox.
Trump TV.
State Media.
Sean Hannity and Steve Doocey do not have a either a spine or a pair of balls between them. Both being the archetypical sycophants that they are.

If you want bias, and utter garbage, look to the Trump enablers.
Look to the spineless sycophants within the GOP, who say nothing because their tax package, their stacking of judicial appointments, their seats in Congress or their congressional majorities are too precious.
Look to Ryan or McConnell.
Look to Nunes or Goertz.

The great Judas’s of the GOP, the party of Lincoln, founded in 1854 as a party of freedom and inspiration to all.

Don’t look to the so called liberal media.
You’re looking in the wrong place.

I have in fact tuned in on many occasions and have turned off coverage that at times is unhinged.

I don't have a horse in the race so to speak, maybe that's the difference.

Clearly you hate trump, your catalogue of the GOPs failings could just as easily apply to the Dems when in office.

Self interested politicians surely not, biased reporting your kidding.

I think most conservatives would view MSNBC the same way you view fox, CNN is more likely to have a conservative voice on but still leans clearly liberal in their coverage.

If this is about immigration reform we both know that nothing will pass before the midterms. Just as clearly CNN are sympathetic to one point of view, fox of course are right behind trumps views.

If it's stacking judicial appointments you speak as if that's not the aim of both parties.

As for the times I had a relative who worked there years ago and briefly ran the NY post, so yes I take an interest.

This to me is like saying there is no left wing bias at the abc, viewing it as good or bad doesn't alter it's existence.

 

[gringo2011]

Sounds similar to mine. There are some odd intermarriages in the royal families. We found Ukrainian, French, German, Belgian and a whole lot that don't even exist any more. Even some Transylvanian. We have lots of British royalty but most were intertwined with other European royals, most of the English kings weren't British themselves. We were from the Plantagenet line but then bred in with William once he took over as well. There are some suggestions that we are related to Charlemagne too but I think that was one of the English kings made up his family tree and added every significant person he could think of. Anyway from what you've said we might be cousins.

 

[gringo2011]

True but theres a lot of very rich Jewish Americans funding Israel.

A mate of mine was working in West Palm Florida fit a multi- billionaire Jewish guy.

He had a direct line to the Israeli defence minister.

Took a call in the car one day and he asked the minister who his money was bombing... Or words to that effect.

Yeah, a lot of New York money is sent back to Israel, it's amazing how much political clout money gives you. I know plenty of Israelis who are very liberal and anti colonial but the hard right and overseas extreme zionists see to have a stronger voice than many others even though the numbers aren't huge. I don't get how that works even.

 

[gringo2011]

WAPO and NYT are not rubbish.
And neither are particularly liberal.
But both are very critical of Trump.
I suggest you read their coverage.
(I will concede that WAPO has strong views on Trump (Democracy dies in Darkness), but even then it has continual op ed’s from pro Trump supporters).

Over the last 18 months I have watched MSNBC move from being mildly left of centre to highly critical of Trump. I have watched Joe Scarborough and Steve Schmidt exit the Republican Party.
I have watched the same phenomena on CNN, ABC & CBS.
I suggest you tune in to any of these networks and watch their coverage.

None of them are liberal media.

But if it is utter garbage and bias that you want, look to Fox.
Trump TV.
State Media.
Sean Hannity and Steve Doocey do not have a either a spine or a pair of balls between them. Both being the archetypical sycophants that they are.

If you want bias, and utter garbage, look to the Trump enablers.
Look to the spineless sycophants within the GOP, who say nothing because their tax package, their stacking of judicial appointments, their seats in Congress or their congressional majorities are too precious.
Look to Ryan or McConnell.
Look to Nunes or Goertz.

The great Judas’s of the GOP, the party of Lincoln, founded in 1854 as a party of freedom and inspiration to all.

Don’t look to the so called liberal media.
You’re looking in the wrong place.

It's interesting, the liberal media were just as enabling of Trump, like they were with Hansen in Oz. They see their types as circus sideshows and highlight the freaks and end up making them identifiable public figures. The more unpolitical and naive they make them out to be the more people feel they will champion their causes. The political mistrust is so strong around the world anyone offering anything that looks like it's not been smeared in the system looks good in comparison.


Like that UK video MUF posted of a guy saying he'd rather have no brakes heading off a cliff than keep the system how it is. Trump and similar figures are like a to wedge to what they see as a fatalistic political system.

 

[VDS66]

Yeah, a lot of New York money is sent back to Israel, it's amazing how much political clout money gives you. I know plenty of Israelis who are very liberal and anti colonial but the hard right and overseas extreme zionists see to have a stronger voice than many others even though the numbers aren't huge. I don't get how that works even.

I think the USA turns a bling eye because they need a strong Israel to balance things out in the region and ensure that ongoing supply of cheap oil.

The the rich Jew's do it to expand the strength of their nation.

As you say it's more the Zionists than Jew's, who for the main oppose settlements and Zionist ideology.

Look at who killed the peace process...

 

[Yawkey way]

I think the USA turns a bling eye because they need a strong Israel to balance things out in the region and ensure that ongoing supply of cheap oil.

The the rich Jew's do it to expand the strength of their nation.

As you say it's more the Zionists than Jew's, who for the main oppose settlements and Zionist ideology.

Look at who killed the peace process...

What a can of worms, I wouldn't like the job of sorting it out.

This much I will say at the risk of starting a shit fight.

I don't think a two state solution with east Jerusalem as the capital was ever going to happen.

I'm not convinced there is anything the Jews can do that will satisfy the Palestinians and the Arab world that won't compromise their safety and ultimately Israel's existence.

It's a tough spot they don't have a lot of friends in the region to put mildly.

The US is a large oil producer but does import a lot you may be surprised by the source.

The import sources rank Latin america, Canada, then the middle east and Africa.

Saudi Arabia was somewhere under 13%.

That's a few years ago but the US is increasing production.

 

[Yawkey way]

It's interesting, the liberal media were just as enabling of Trump, like they were with Hansen in Oz. They see their types as circus sideshows and highlight the freaks and end up making them identifiable public figures. The more unpolitical and naive they make them out to be the more people feel they will champion their causes. The political mistrust is so strong around the world anyone offering anything that looks like it's not been smeared in the system looks good in comparison.


Like that UK video MUF posted of a guy saying he'd rather have no brakes heading off a cliff than keep the system how it is. Trump and similar figures are like a to wedge to what they see as a fatalistic political system.

I watched all the republican debates he was a side show for quite a while.

I can remember watching with my son when trumped launched at jeb bush with his routine.

You've done a lousy job, he's a low energy guy, he'd never get a job in private industry.

Now the rest is history but I swear that if jeb had been a different type of guy and ripped trump a new one that would have been the end of the circus.

By the time any of them tried to fight back he had picked them off one by one, they didn't know how to deal with him.

I'd love to get him on a polygraph I don't think even he thought he would win the nomination let alone the presidency.

 

[gringo2011]

I think the USA turns a bling eye because they need a strong Israel to balance things out in the region and ensure that ongoing supply of cheap oil.

The the rich Jew's do it to expand the strength of their nation.

As you say it's more the Zionists than Jew's, who for the main oppose settlements and Zionist ideology.

Look at who killed the peace process...

Seem to have that with the Saudis and Emirates though. I reckon the Zionists are happy to hitch their trailer to it. It's fascinating the fundamentalist christians buying into the Zionist cause to bring on armageddon. Scary but fascinating in the way Trump is.

 

[Yawkey way]

Seem to have that with the Saudis and Emirates though. I reckon the Zionists are happy to hitch their trailer to it. It's fascinating the fundamentalist christians buying into the Zionist cause to bring on armageddon. Scary but fascinating in the way Trump is.

This stuff is everywhere, some say it goes back to the brits.

I've seen others who say the Muslims have a similar story with a different place and name for Armageddon.

Where heading right down the rabbit hole now.

 

[gringo2011]

I watched all the republican debates he was a side show for quite a while.

I can remember watching with my son when trumped launched at jeb bush with his routine.

You've done a lousy job, he's a low energy guy, he'd never get a job in private industry.

Now the rest is history but I swear that if jeb had been a different type of guy and ripped trump a new one that would have been the end of the circus.

By the time any of them tried to fight back he had picked them off one by one, they didn't know how to deal with him.

I'd love to get him on a polygraph I don't think even he thought he would win the nomination let alone the presidency.

I thin when he started spouting the elites were the issue and that the swamp needed draining a few put their heads down to stay out of the firing line. No one stopped him, Sanders could have give him a run for his money if they'd run them head to head too. So many little things lead to him getting up.

 

[MUFKilda]

WAPO and NYT are not rubbish.
And neither are particularly liberal.
But both are very critical of Trump.
I suggest you read their coverage.
(I will concede that WAPO has strong views on Trump (Democracy dies in Darkness), but even then it has continual op ed’s from pro Trump supporters).

Over the last 18 months I have watched MSNBC move from being mildly left of centre to highly critical of Trump. I have watched Joe Scarborough and Steve Schmidt exit the Republican Party.
I have watched the same phenomena on CNN, ABC & CBS.
I suggest you tune in to any of these networks and watch their coverage.

None of them are liberal media.

But if it is utter garbage and bias that you want, look to Fox.
Trump TV.
State Media.
Sean Hannity and Steve Doocey do not have a either a spine or a pair of balls between them. Both being the archetypical sycophants that they are.

If you want bias, and utter garbage, look to the Trump enablers.
Look to the spineless sycophants within the GOP, who say nothing because their tax package, their stacking of judicial appointments, their seats in Congress or their congressional majorities are too precious.
Look to Ryan or McConnell.
Look to Nunes or Goertz.

The great Judas’s of the GOP, the party of Lincoln, founded in 1854 as a party of freedom and inspiration to all.

Don’t look to the so called liberal media.
You’re looking in the wrong place.

Great post Sunny

 

[Yawkey way]

I thin when he started spouting the elites were the issue and that the swamp needed draining a few put their heads down to stay out of the firing line. No one stopped him, Sanders could have give him a run for his money if they'd run them head to head too. So many little things lead to him getting up.

It was like being in a crash when everything slows down.

People started looking sideways at Bush, his numbers dropped the superpac money dropped off.

Trump in the meantime is showing up anywhere they all have him yapping away a bit like Stormy's lawyer. You can see him starting to hone the message as his advisors watch the numbers.

Now it's little Marco and lying Ted, trump keeps selling the outsider message, he's funny when they fight back they look narky and mean definitely out of their comfort zone.

They have dodged media he's now on fox etc more than some anchors and yet you still sense it's just this is going to make me money.

There's talk his nomination will be blocked even if he wins as the impossible begins to look possible. Trump is honing his act but you still sense something will change and sanity will prevail.

Now he's bloody everywhere and all for free it's not a Juggernaut but he's got a head of steam up.

Meanwhile Clinton is as entitled as ever full of confidence preaching to the converted and well we all know how that played out.

You change one thing and he looses, blame the Republicans, the Democratic party and the Clinton's and the media that fed him.

He found a message he could win with and won against massive odds.

 

[StCicatriz]

WAPO and NYT are not rubbish.
And neither are particularly liberal.
But both are very critical of Trump.
I suggest you read their coverage.
(I will concede that WAPO has strong views on Trump (Democracy dies in Darkness), but even then it has continual op ed’s from pro Trump supporters).

Over the last 18 months I have watched MSNBC move from being mildly left of centre to highly critical of Trump. I have watched Joe Scarborough and Steve Schmidt exit the Republican Party.
I have watched the same phenomena on CNN, ABC & CBS.
I suggest you tune in to any of these networks and watch their coverage.

None of them are liberal media.

But if it is utter garbage and bias that you want, look to Fox.
Trump TV.
State Media.
Sean Hannity and Steve Doocey do not have a either a spine or a pair of balls between them. Both being the archetypical sycophants that they are.

If you want bias, and utter garbage, look to the Trump enablers.
Look to the spineless sycophants within the GOP, who say nothing because their tax package, their stacking of judicial appointments, their seats in Congress or their congressional majorities are too precious.
Look to Ryan or McConnell.
Look to Nunes or Goertz.

The great Judas’s of the GOP, the party of Lincoln, founded in 1854 as a party of freedom and inspiration to all.

Don’t look to the so called liberal media.
You’re looking in the wrong place.

You can't seriously say with a straight face that CNN is not liberal or left of center.

I'm not a fan of Trump and totally agree with your comments on him, the GOP and fox but your statement on CNN is wrong. That's coming from someone who choose it as my go to news channel when living in the states.

I always thought of fox as the Republican party's channel and CNN as the democrats.

 

[StCicatriz]

I don't think he wanted to win it. Worst outcome is that he would look like a fool and not make it as nominee. The 2nd worst option was that he would win and everyone would learn that he has no ****ing idea on what he's doing.

I watched all the republican debates he was a side show for quite a while.

I can remember watching with my son when trumped launched at jeb bush with his routine.

You've done a lousy job, he's a low energy guy, he'd never get a job in private industry.

Now the rest is history but I swear that if jeb had been a different type of guy and ripped trump a new one that would have been the end of the circus.

By the time any of them tried to fight back he had picked them off one by one, they didn't know how to deal with him.

I'd love to get him on a polygraph I don't think even he thought he would win the nomination let alone the presidency.

 

[gringo2011]

You can't seriously say with a straight face that CNN is not liberal or left of center.

I'm not a fan of Trump and totally agree with your comments on him, the GOP and fox but your statement on CNN is wrong. That's coming from someone who choose it as my go to news channel when living in the states.

I always thought of fox as the Republican party's channel and CNN as the democrats.

I think that's showing how the left has moved centre though. CNN is more neutral than left. Left would be pushing a more socialist agenda like the Guardian. The ABC in oz is hardly a left wing channel these days but compared to the commercial networks they look like a socialist party propaganda wing.

 

[MUFKilda]

You can't seriously say with a straight face that CNN is not liberal or left of center.

I'm not a fan of Trump and totally agree with your comments on him, the GOP and fox but your statement on CNN is wrong. That's coming from someone who choose it as my go to news channel when living in the states.

I always thought of fox as the Republican party's channel and CNN as the democrats.

CNN might be left by American standards, but that doesn't mean much, given how right wing American politics is. It isn't left of centre by any definition I understand. Liberal in the American definition of that word perhaps. The Democrats are not left of centre, St C; Obamacare, for example, was a plan once put forward by the Republicans, yet now it's 'socialist'; that's how much to the right America has moved over the past few decades. Clinton shifted the Democrats onto Republican ground with welfare to work, NAFTA, banking de-regulation etc, as he said Democratic voters had nowhere else to go. CNN is corporate media and still pushes neo-liberal economics whilst being more socially liberal.