Random thoughts from the game...

[razzzam]

Was at the game and can't bring myself to watch any footage from the game so any and all these thoughts may be wrong...

a) We smashed them in the ruck. Our defense easily beat their forwards, our midfield beat their midfield... yet we still lose. Go figure

b) Our forward structure needs a lot of work. Too many times were we too predictable and Hawthorn were able to double/triple team the forwards

c) Was it me or did Jr give Stokes an absolute spray for not giving the return handpass just before the end of the first half?

d) Our decision making in the forward 50m was extremely poor. We gave when we shouldn't and we shot when we should've gave

e) I absolutely love the bloke, but Stevie J wasn't too good today in the forward 50. Why does always have to try to do things the hard way??

f) If Varcoe doesn't step it up next year, he should be traded/delisted. Needs to contribute more then just tackles

g) Quite a few of Hawthorns goals came from 50m+. Only one of ours - Jr's - did off the top of my head

h) In saying that, the player who we really missed today? Prismall. His long kicking from outside the 50 would've been handy with the forward line struggling with the entries

i) It takes a team effort to win. That's why Bomber's press conference was interesting. He mentioned that a few players didn't follow instructions and decided to do their own thing

j) Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. We've only lost 2 games this year and 3 from the round 6 last year

k) Ablett, what a gun

l) Hodge, what a gun

m) It sucked to be sitting in the Hawthorn members bay with no fellow Cats supporters within 30m

n) Lastly, let's be gracious. Hawthorn deserved to win, they took their chances while we didn't


Yours Sincerely,

Devastated Cats supporter

 

[OldStyle2007]

Was at the game and can't bring myself to watch any footage from the game so any and all these thoughts may be wrong...

a) We smashed them in the ruck. Our defense easily beat their forwards, our midfield beat their midfield... yet we still lose. Go figure

Forward Line Coaching and Match-ups - we won almost all the battles but not the war.

b) Our forward structure needs a lot of work. Too many times were we too predictable and Hawthorn were able to double/triple team the forwards

Coaching - Stokes v Hodge? Single worst move ever

c) Was it me or did Jr give Stokes an absolute spray for not giving the return handpass just before the end of the first half?

That was the single dumbest thing I've seen on the footy field for a while. Not only did he not give it to Gazza who was wide open and in a better position, but he balked the handpass to Gaz, and then did a blind turn into 3 Hawthorn defenders. This is where Bomber's quarter time spray is a bad thing - Stokes felt he had to do something special to redeem himself

d) Our decision making in the forward 50m was extremely poor. We gave when we shouldn't and we shot when we should've gave

Wheels fell off. Once Ottens missed, the wheels had well and truly fallen off

e) I absolutely love the bloke, but Stevie J wasn't too good today in the forward 50. Why does always have to try to do things the hard way??

He was alright. Like in Rd 17 he moved up the ground to disrupt the Hawk zone. His kicking lacked penetration many times where the kick just fell a few metres short

f) If Varcoe doesn't step it up next year, he should be traded/delisted. Needs to contribute more then just tackles

He was down but he did a lot of chasing. Nearly created a few goals. Did he smother a Johnson shot?

g) Quite a few of Hawthorns goals came from 50m+. Only one of ours - Jr's - did off the top of my head

They have some big kicks. We have never used that in game plan all year

h) In saying that, the player who we really missed today? Prismall. His long kicking from outside the 50 would've been handy with the forward line struggling with the entries

Missed Wojo with some run and carry and shots from outside

i) It takes a team effort to win. That's why Bomber's press conference was interesting. He mentioned that a few players didn't follow instructions and decided to do their own thing

Mainly forward line players I would imagine


j) Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. We've only lost 2 games this year and 3 from the round 6 last year

While not throwing game plan A out, we need something to fall back on and these plans need to be match tested during the year. We had plenty of dead rubbers to try a few different things and these opportunities weren't used

See above

 

[Todman]

As a Hawk supporter who has watched the DVD several times

a) The turning point was the last minute of the 2nd Quarter. Harley K.O. in a clash of heads with Williams in a tackle followed by Mooney miss. Who was Harley on and who replaced him? Williams is 3rd best forward was better than the cats 4th best defender..

b) Harley left a bigger hole than Croad. Why did he not come on until half way thru the last. He return to the pine a 3/4 time. I know he was concussed but if he started the last then it could have been a moral lifter.

c) Cats delivery into the forward 50 was dreadful, to often kicking to a contest and losing the footy or kicking directly to a Hawk defender to mark.

d) Ablett and Johnson both seem hellbent on winning the Norm Smith than following team instructions.

e) Geelong had the better of the Umpires.

f) Geelong were ripe for the picking, Its hard to change a winning team and they were outcoached on the day. They didn't seem to have a Plan "B"

 

[Geelong2k9]

As a Hawk supporter who has watched the DVD several times

a) The turning point was the last minute of the 2nd Quarter. Harley K.O. in a clash of heads with Williams in a tackle followed by Mooney miss. Who was Harley on and who replaced him? Williams is 3rd best forward was better than the cats 4th best defender..

b) Harley left a bigger hole than Croad. Why did he not come on until half way thru the last. He return to the pine a 3/4 time. I know he was concussed but if he started the last then it could have been a moral lifter.

c) Cats delivery into the forward 50 was dreadful, to often kicking to a contest and losing the footy or kicking directly to a Hawk defender to mark.

d) Ablett and Johnson both seem hellbent on winning the Norm Smith than following team instructions.

e) Geelong had the better of the Umpires.

f) Geelong were ripe for the picking, Its hard to change a winning team and they were outcoached on the day. They didn't seem to have a Plan "B"

Agree with everything but the highlighted; Ablett and SJ were the only players on the day hellbent on winning the ball and looking for opportunities. They were really winners on the day for us; not much else to go by.

With the umpires, Geelong had a good run of the 50/50 decisions in the 1st half; 2nd half wasn't an issue as we werent around the ball often enough!!!

 

[CF]

The way I remember it the Hawks crushed our forward line by not letting us get away with our regular game plan for our forward attacks. We always relied on being able to take opposition backmen up the field so it would leave space for our forwards to lead into.

The Hawks backmen stayed put the whole game so when some of our forwards worked up the field the Hawks backmen were able to act as a loose man and double team our tall forwards. Their strategy to rush behinds was also a well thought out plan. Not giving our small forwards like Chappy or Stokes opportunities to rove and snap goals. Then Hodge played the game of his career didn't help us a bit. Regardless of who was on him.

Steve Johnson got 30 touches because his direct opponent stayed down back and let him run up the field as much as he wanted to.

The Hawks in effect used the same strategy as we use in the backline against us and that was terrific coaching by Clarkson. Got to give credit where it is due.

 

[vinum coupe]

d) Ablett and Johnson both seem hellbent on winning the Norm Smith than following team instructions.

I haven't watched it again but I agree from what I remember.


Interesting that SJ had a chat to ablett during the adelaide game on the bench. Something along the lines of "if you come into the forward line you have to play your role, don't go chasing kicks up field"

Seems he needs to look in the mirror (not the only reason we lost though)

 

[fpm84]

I haven't watched it again but I agree from what I remember.


Interesting that SJ had a chat to ablett during the adelaide game on the bench. Something along the lines of "if you come into the forward line you have to play your role, don't go chasing kicks up field"

Seems he needs to look in the mirror (not the only reason we lost though)

The way I see it is that Chappy was too injured/underdone to play his usual role as a mini-CHF with occasional bursts in the midfield, so SJ was moved into that role while Chappy hung back in the forward 50.

SJ tried his heart out but 30+ Stevie J possessions are not nearly as effective as 10 Stevie J possessions equalling four or five goals in the forward line.

Nothing to do with him kick chasing or trying for another Norm Smith medal - just proof that with Chapman injured we lacked any other option in that position.

(FWIW, this is all based on recollection - I was at the game but haven't seen any of the replay so my memory may not be correct!)

 

[Geelong2k9]

The way I see it is that Chappy was too injured/underdone to play his usual role as a mini-CHF with occasional bursts in the midfield, so SJ was moved into that role while Chappy hung back in the forward 50.

SJ tried his heart out but 30+ Stevie J possessions are not nearly as effective as 10 Stevie J possessions equalling four or five goals in the forward line.

Nothing to do with him kick chasing or trying for another Norm Smith medal - just proof that with Chapman injured we lacked any other option in that position.

(FWIW, this is all based on recollection - I was at the game but haven't seen any of the replay so my memory may not be correct!)

My recollection is exactly the same as yours.

 

[catempire]

My recollection is exactly the same as yours.

+2

I get the feeling that a lot of people looked at the stats at the end of the game and looked at SJ's possession and goal count and put 1 and 1 together to get 3.

On a day where many of our key movers in the forward line were off their game (and I say "movers" in the literal sense in that they generally move around a lot, creating space, options and setting up play), SJ was forced further up the ground to create more opportunities for our forwards.

He actually did this quite effectively in the first half but most of his good work was not finished off by the forwards that ended up with the ball.

 

[Hawker 44]

It just wasn't meant to be for you:

I don't think ANY team in the modern era could hate a club as much as Geelong would hate Hawthorn. I'm not a Cats fan, so it's not really up for me to say, but have a look at some of these examples :

1.) 1988 Night Grand Final. A chance for the Cats to win some sort of premiership. The Hawks spoil the party.

2.) 1989 Round 6. Geelong lead by 54 points during the scond quarter. Hawthorn win, in the highest scoring game in league history. Geelong kick the highest ever losing score. The score is 171-163. The Hawks do it to Geelong again.

3.) 1989 Grand Final. Another close win to the Hawks, this time by a goal (144-138)

4.) 1990 Round 1. Hawthorn beat Geelong by 20 goals. Geelong was looking for revenge following their narrow Grand Final loss 6 months earlier, but they were humiliated and embarassed. 120 points, you gotta be kidding.

5.) The 1991 second-semi final. Hawthorn win by 2 points and go INTO the 1991 Grand Final. Yet another close win by the Hawks over the Cats. In retrospect, this match decided the premiership. If Geelong had won this match, it is highly likely they would have won the Grand Final. The Hawks cost the Cats another flag.

6.), 7.), 8.) and 9.) Four matches, at Kardinia Park of all places, between 1995 and 1999. I think by memory the four games were in 1995,96,97 and 1999. Incredibly, the Hawks won all four by less than a goal. That's right, all four. On Geelongs own home ground, the Hawks won 4 games by less than a kick. The curse is now officially a plague.

10.) 1999 at Waverley: The Hawks end Geelong finals hopes, with -you guessed it- a narrow win at Waverley. Hawthorn won by 3 points from memory ending Geelong's season.

11.) Round 22 1987: Geelong vs Hawthorn at Kardinia Park. If Geelong win they go into the finals 5, and finish 5th. If they lose, they are out. Geelong lead all day by around five goals, however, in time-on of the last quarter, Hawthorn finally hit the front by 3 points, and deny Geelong a finals berth.

CONCLUSON : Whenever Hawthorn play Geelong and the match is important, or close, Hawthorn will win. Geelong will only win if the match is either unimportant, or one-sided.

Geelong is incapable of beating Hawthorn when anything important is riding on it in the modern era. Ironically, Geelong's last premiership, in 1963 was over the Hawks. Wouldn't it be funny if the Hawks happened to have won that game all those years ago !

More recently, add the 2000 Elimination final at Telstra Dome - Hawks win a tight one.

2006 - Round 22, Hawthorn send out Jonny Barker on a high with a thumping of Geelong at the Dome.

2007 - Despite winning the premiership that year, Hawthorn was the one team that Geelong failed to beat that year

2008 GF - Enough said.

Wow - what kind of curse of on the Cats?

It's almost ridiculous!

 

[LukeWarm]

Alright, '09 we take a Red Sox approach. Let's reverse this f***ing curse

 

[goyoucatters]

CONCLUSON : Whenever Hawthorn play Geelong and the match is important, or close, Hawthorn will win. Geelong will only win if the match is either unimportant, or one-sided.

I think this is so close to the truth it's not funny; however, I think the actual truth is this:

Since 1963 GF day, whenever Hawthorn play Geelong and the match is important, Hawthorn will win. Geelong wll only win if the match is unimportant.

The examples shared earlier in the thread underline this; GF day 08 confirms it.

Given that the Hawks look like a huge chance to be competing in the finals for a few seasons to come, the Cats are facing the challenge of overcoming 45 years of being 'owned' when it matters.

For me, the Hawks players know this too; I believe it was a big part of their lack of nerves on the big day this year. They knew that when it matters, they always beat the Cats.

Hoping to live to see the Cats win an important game against the Hawks - certainly hasn't happened yet...

 

[noclashjumpers]

While I agree with a fair bit of what's been said about the GF, I can't help but think there's a little bit of over analysing going on.

For me it's a simple case of not taking our chances in the 2nd Q. We were at our dominant best winning the clearances, inside 50's, virtually everything.

But in the end we are human. If, despite this dominance, you can't kick straight, then it's going to impact on you psychologically. Particularly when a) Hawthorn converted seemingly every chance, a lot of which were outside 50, and b) it's a GF with more pressure.

Summary; If we kicked straight in the 2nd, and got some steam up going into the 3rd, I honestly think Hawthorn, wouldn't have been able to keep up.

That's it, I'm not thinking about the GF any more, bring on 2009!!!!!!

 

[vinum coupe]

5.) The 1991 second-semi final. Hawthorn win by 2 points and go INTO the 1991 Grand Final. Yet another close win by the Hawks over the Cats. In retrospect, this match decided the premiership. If Geelong had won this match, it is highly likely they would have won the Grand Final. The Hawks cost the Cats another flag.

If we had of put in half the effort 3 weeks ago as we did that day back in 91 the cats would have smashed the hawks.

That semi was awesome, and the hawks showed how far ahead they were.

We had them covered and looked like rolling them. I remember it vividly. As we started to create a wave of momentum the hawks just shut the game down. You could tell it was initiated by the players, not from the box. You slowed up every possession. This was 91. No one knew what tempo footy was, except for the hawks.

We played our absolute guts out. Everyone was spent, and there was no way we were going to get up for the eagles the following week.

 

[Barabbas]

I went back further in time, and rewatched the Prelim and a few things stuck out to me.

1. Stokes played well enough not to warrant being dropped, there was nothing to indicate he would go so badly the next week.
2. Varcoe and Wojo were both good.
3. Our intensity was down, and this carried into the Grand final.

I haven't watched the GF again, but...

As for the "we have no plan B" I think some people should develop their own opinions instead of parroting mediocre media commentators. No plan B was not the problem. The problem was we didn't stick to plan A. Hawthorn to their credit played a game plan that forced us from our natural game. I'm sure the coaches knew what was happening, I'm certain it was not a matter of being "outcoached" but more likely our players on the field reacting the wrong way, and not following directions.

Other thoughts.

• The Hodge/Stokes matchup killed us. It reminded me of the Scarlett/westhoff match up in 07.
• Ablett while trying his heart out was pushed to the back half of the midfield to make up for our other midfielders not playing so well. This left us terribly exposed in the front half of the midfield leading to us bombing it in.
• The bombing it in cost us just as much as our forwards failure to convert.
• Stevie J is more valuable to us in the forward line, he's great thrown into the midfield to mix it up, but we really could have used him on the flank.
• I'd love to see Mooney roaming more, like Richo he gets frustated and losed confidence easily, I'd love to see him thrown up the ground, and into the ruck occasionally.
• There are some players that need to improve on their endeavour. Despite our success rate this year, too many tomes we relied on the same players to be the matchwinners. Every player should be that player.
• Egan is terribly important to our structure, having him beat the CHF every week in 07 was a luxury that allowed Scarlett and Harley off the hook.
• Chapman and Ottens being fully fit will help us enormously, they were not 100% all year.
• We have to get Gamble in, he's not a KP forward but geez he's a hard match up.​

Also, as a personal vent - Luke Hodge is very overrated. He's a number 1 draft pick that isn't good enough to make it in the midfield and to play well needs a poor match up on the half back flank. Really, anyone that thinks the norm smith put him even with Judd is kidding themselves.

 

[eldorado]

Luke Hodge is very overrated. He's a number 1 draft pick that isn't good enough to make it in the midfield and to play well needs a poor match up on the half back flank. Really, anyone that thinks the norm smith put him even with Judd is kidding themselves.

Rubbish.

We put him where he is most valuable. He is the 'go-to' guy.

You ask the kiddies who is the most important player at Hawthorn, they'll say Buddy.

Ask anyone over 20, who knows anything about the game, they'll say Hodge.

I'm sorry if you haven't been watching him closely, but you are just wrong. The comment about 'poor match up on half back flank" just proves it.

 

[Pepp]

surely you catters can give Hodge some credit. Just a teencey weency bit even. I've also watched the GF over and over and he was good. A clear NS winner I thought. Jnr was good also but (and I know I'm gonna get howled down by you guys) I thought he was a bit.....selfish.

okay guys count to 10. Just hear me out.

He was good, he was strong but I thought he demanded the ball a few times in poor position and although not getting caught (strong arm fend off) stopped your run on play. He seemed to be going sideways a lot yet still demanded the ball.

he also never went with Dew when bateman went off and Dew came on. He was the ony Cat in a position to take him yet stood his ground and Dew went down un attended and set up a goal.

Thats it. Crucify away. Oh and I thought Hodge was selfless and skilled beyond reproach. Now thats really it. Sorry.

PS - Hodge will play 3 years longer than Judd. Sorry again. Just fixing strap on helmet now so fire away.

 

[catempire]

1. Stokes played well enough not to warrant being dropped, there was nothing to indicate he would go so badly the next week.

Also, as a personal vent - Luke Hodge is very overrated. He's a number 1 draft pick that isn't good enough to make it in the midfield and to play well needs a poor match up on the half back flank. Really, anyone that thinks the norm smith put him even with Judd is kidding themselves.

Can't agree with either of those points.

Look back to the threads about who Chappy would replace from during GF week. The prevailing view was the Stokes was poor against the Bulldogs (probably due to injury) and that he should make way. On re-watching the PF, I maintained that view. He just couldn't keep his feet or move laterally with any freedom.

Hodge is an excellent player. He plays that role because Hawthorn know that he'll be effective doing it. He totally exposed Geelong's poor planning and poor execution going forward with his reading of the play and his ability to cut off Geelong forward thrusts.

 

[OldStyle2007]

It just wasn't meant to be for you:

I don't think ANY team in the modern era could hate a club as much as Geelong would hate Hawthorn. I'm not a Cats fan, so it's not really up for me to say, but have a look at some of these examples :

1.) 1988 Night Grand Final. A chance for the Cats to win some sort of premiership. The Hawks spoil the party.

2.) 1989 Round 6. Geelong lead by 54 points during the scond quarter. Hawthorn win, in the highest scoring game in league history. Geelong kick the highest ever losing score. The score is 171-163. The Hawks do it to Geelong again.

3.) 1989 Grand Final. Another close win to the Hawks, this time by a goal (144-138)

4.) 1990 Round 1. Hawthorn beat Geelong by 20 goals. Geelong was looking for revenge following their narrow Grand Final loss 6 months earlier, but they were humiliated and embarassed. 120 points, you gotta be kidding.

5.) The 1991 second-semi final. Hawthorn win by 2 points and go INTO the 1991 Grand Final. Yet another close win by the Hawks over the Cats. In retrospect, this match decided the premiership. If Geelong had won this match, it is highly likely they would have won the Grand Final. The Hawks cost the Cats another flag.

6.), 7.), 8.) and 9.) Four matches, at Kardinia Park of all places, between 1995 and 1999. I think by memory the four games were in 1995,96,97 and 1999. Incredibly, the Hawks won all four by less than a goal. That's right, all four. On Geelongs own home ground, the Hawks won 4 games by less than a kick. The curse is now officially a plague.

10.) 1999 at Waverley: The Hawks end Geelong finals hopes, with -you guessed it- a narrow win at Waverley. Hawthorn won by 3 points from memory ending Geelong's season.

11.) Round 22 1987: Geelong vs Hawthorn at Kardinia Park. If Geelong win they go into the finals 5, and finish 5th. If they lose, they are out. Geelong lead all day by around five goals, however, in time-on of the last quarter, Hawthorn finally hit the front by 3 points, and deny Geelong a finals berth.

CONCLUSON : Whenever Hawthorn play Geelong and the match is important, or close, Hawthorn will win. Geelong will only win if the match is either unimportant, or one-sided.

Geelong is incapable of beating Hawthorn when anything important is riding on it in the modern era. Ironically, Geelong's last premiership, in 1963 was over the Hawks. Wouldn't it be funny if the Hawks happened to have won that game all those years ago !

More recently, add the 2000 Elimination final at Telstra Dome - Hawks win a tight one.

2006 - Round 22, Hawthorn send out Jonny Barker on a high with a thumping of Geelong at the Dome.

2007 - Despite winning the premiership that year, Hawthorn was the one team that Geelong failed to beat that year

2008 GF - Enough said.

Wow - what kind of curse of on the Cats?

It's almost ridiculous!

Absolutely spot on

I knew this all year and I was dreading us playing the Hawks who have always had the wood over us no matter the teams relative positions on the ladder

Also note that the belting we copped in round 3 2006 at home knocked out the confidence of the whole team and a disastrous season followed

The Grand Final was so important for the club but I doubt it was even mentioned to the players how much this team needed to beat Hawthorn to avenge years and years of abuse

 

[Hinkley29]

It just wasn't meant to be for you:

I don't think ANY team in the modern era could hate a club as much as Geelong would hate Hawthorn. I'm not a Cats fan, so it's not really up for me to say, but have a look at some of these examples :

1.) 1988 Night Grand Final. A chance for the Cats to win some sort of premiership. The Hawks spoil the party.

2.) 1989 Round 6. Geelong lead by 54 points during the scond quarter. Hawthorn win, in the highest scoring game in league history. Geelong kick the highest ever losing score. The score is 171-163. The Hawks do it to Geelong again.

3.) 1989 Grand Final. Another close win to the Hawks, this time by a goal (144-138)

4.) 1990 Round 1. Hawthorn beat Geelong by 20 goals. Geelong was looking for revenge following their narrow Grand Final loss 6 months earlier, but they were humiliated and embarassed. 120 points, you gotta be kidding.

5.) The 1991 second-semi final. Hawthorn win by 2 points and go INTO the 1991 Grand Final. Yet another close win by the Hawks over the Cats. In retrospect, this match decided the premiership. If Geelong had won this match, it is highly likely they would have won the Grand Final. The Hawks cost the Cats another flag.

6.), 7.), 8.) and 9.) Four matches, at Kardinia Park of all places, between 1995 and 1999. I think by memory the four games were in 1995,96,97 and 1999. Incredibly, the Hawks won all four by less than a goal. That's right, all four. On Geelongs own home ground, the Hawks won 4 games by less than a kick. The curse is now officially a plague.

10.) 1999 at Waverley: The Hawks end Geelong finals hopes, with -you guessed it- a narrow win at Waverley. Hawthorn won by 3 points from memory ending Geelong's season.

11.) Round 22 1987: Geelong vs Hawthorn at Kardinia Park. If Geelong win they go into the finals 5, and finish 5th. If they lose, they are out. Geelong lead all day by around five goals, however, in time-on of the last quarter, Hawthorn finally hit the front by 3 points, and deny Geelong a finals berth.

CONCLUSON : Whenever Hawthorn play Geelong and the match is important, or close, Hawthorn will win. Geelong will only win if the match is either unimportant, or one-sided.

Geelong is incapable of beating Hawthorn when anything important is riding on it in the modern era. Ironically, Geelong's last premiership, in 1963 was over the Hawks. Wouldn't it be funny if the Hawks happened to have won that game all those years ago !

More recently, add the 2000 Elimination final at Telstra Dome - Hawks win a tight one.

2006 - Round 22, Hawthorn send out Jonny Barker on a high with a thumping of Geelong at the Dome.

2007 - Despite winning the premiership that year, Hawthorn was the one team that Geelong failed to beat that year

2008 GF - Enough said.

Wow - what kind of curse of on the Cats?

It's almost ridiculous!

Of all the games you mention here, only 1 game has any significance to the current teams - the 2008 GF.

Games 1 - 11 were all greater than 9 years ago, and have zero relevance to the current situation. FFS, one of the games mentioned happened 21 years ago. So what?

2000 Elim Final was not a "huge game" (neither team was ever winning the flag that year). Round 22 2006 was an absolute nothing game, esp for Geelong. At that point, our season was over, we had nothing to play for. Sorry, we don't give a rats that Johnny Barker was retiring. 2007 H&A loss was balanced out by the 2008 H&A win. Again, so what?

These games have as much relevance as the 4 straight Geelong beat Hawthorn in 2003-2005. Why didn't you list those games.?

This post is simply a poor excuse for listing a bunch of Hawthorn wins and trying to attribute some "mystical curse" to it. In reality you are just a Hawthorn fan who wants to gloat about your recent victory. That is all well and good, but this aint the place.

 

[Hinkley29]

The Grand Final was so important for the club but I doubt it was even mentioned to the players how much this team needed to beat Hawthorn to avenge years and years of abuse

Geez, you should write for a tabloid newspaper, that really is sensationalist in the extreme.

It was a GF - and thus a hugely important game. But to say that the "team needed to beat Hawthorn to avenge years and years of abuse" is just rubbish. We needed to win because it was a GF, pure and simple. If you think a few games that happened 10+ years ago had any relevance to this years GF, then you are kidding yourself.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

surely you catters can give Hodge some credit. Just a teencey weency bit even. I've also watched the GF over and over and he was good. A clear NS winner I thought. Jnr was good also but (and I know I'm gonna get howled down by you guys) I thought he was a bit.....selfish.

I'll agree that he was unaccountable but I think he was within his rights to play a little selfishly given the performances of his team mates, you can tell he bleeds for Geelong and was desperately trying to inspire his team.
Jr played a blinder but was not as influential as the stats say. There were a lot of handballs.

 

[goyoucatters]

For me, as a passionate Cats fan, Hodge was clearly the winner of the NS (and is a fantastic player to boot). Cats played into his hands time and time again on the day, and he kept comng up with the answers. Got to so many contests, and didn't lose one that I can remember.

Having said that, I'm never watching the game again, so I'll never know.

'Criticism' of Ablett is ridiculous (and probably just a response to Cats fans not lauding Hodge).

When the rest of the team is performing abysmally, why wouldn't you want the ball at every contest, no matter what position you are in?

If the other Cats were calling for the footy in vastly better positions, they would have received it. Fact is, most of them were not in the game...

Ablett handballed a lot on the day, because the Hawks did a very good job of containing him, and were also clearly outnumbering the Cats when he looked up to kick the ball into the forward line.

Hodge was superb, Ablett was very good...end of story.

And, of course, it doesn't matter, anyway. Only thing that mattered was being in front at the final siren.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

I went back further in time, and rewatched the Prelim and a few things stuck out to me.

1. Stokes played well enough not to warrant being dropped, there was nothing to indicate he would go so badly the next week.
2. Varcoe and Wojo were both good.
3. Our intensity was down, and this carried into the Grand final.

I haven't watched the GF again, but...

As for the "we have no plan B" I think some people should develop their own opinions instead of parroting mediocre media commentators. No plan B was not the problem. The problem was we didn't stick to plan A. Hawthorn to their credit played a game plan that forced us from our natural game. I'm sure the coaches knew what was happening, I'm certain it was not a matter of being "outcoached" but more likely our players on the field reacting the wrong way, and not following directions.

Other thoughts.

• The Hodge/Stokes matchup killed us. It reminded me of the Scarlett/westhoff match up in 07.
• Ablett while trying his heart out was pushed to the back half of the midfield to make up for our other midfielders not playing so well. This left us terribly exposed in the front half of the midfield leading to us bombing it in.
• The bombing it in cost us just as much as our forwards failure to convert.
• Stevie J is more valuable to us in the forward line, he's great thrown into the midfield to mix it up, but we really could have used him on the flank.
• I'd love to see Mooney roaming more, like Richo he gets frustated and losed confidence easily, I'd love to see him thrown up the ground, and into the ruck occasionally.
• There are some players that need to improve on their endeavour. Despite our success rate this year, too many tomes we relied on the same players to be the matchwinners. Every player should be that player.
• Egan is terribly important to our structure, having him beat the CHF every week in 07 was a luxury that allowed Scarlett and Harley off the hook.
• Chapman and Ottens being fully fit will help us enormously, they were not 100% all year.
• We have to get Gamble in, he's not a KP forward but geez he's a hard match up.​

Also, as a personal vent - Luke Hodge is very overrated. He's a number 1 draft pick that isn't good enough to make it in the midfield and to play well needs a poor match up on the half back flank. Really, anyone that thinks the norm smith put him even with Judd is kidding themselves.

geez, what a waste of an otherwise great post. Last last paragraph is just woeful, Hodge is our best and most valuable player bar none. BTW, what are your thoughts on Tom Harley?

Some really good, reasoned and objective analysis in this thread. Nothing I can really add that hasn't already been said, except to say that any criticism of Ablett is unwarranted IMO. He tried his guts out, his effectiveness was blunted a little but through no fault of his own. I thought Hodge's Norm Smith was well-deserved, but Ablett was snapping at his heels.

 

[Barabbas]

geez, what a waste of an otherwise great post. Last last paragraph is just woeful, Hodge is our best and most valuable player bar none. BTW, what are your thoughts on Tom Harley?

Some really good, reasoned and objective analysis in this thread. Nothing I can really add that hasn't already been said, except to say that any criticism of Ablett is unwarranted IMO. He tried his guts out, his effectiveness was blunted a little but through no fault of his own. I thought Hodge's Norm Smith was well-deserved, but Ablett was snapping at his heels.

What can I say one-eyed hawk, I'm a one-eyed cat sometimes.

I didn't say I didn't think Hodge isn't a good player, I just think he's a bit overrated - That's my opinion, you'd think I'd get away with it on the Cats board. I just think a midfielder attacking from half back isn't as valuable as a player like scarlett who can attack while being the best stopper in the business.