Raves..

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by Macca19


If the Majority of people didnt use these drugs responsibly then 3/4 of the world would be on smack and be raving loonies.

That's a nice little statistic. Mind quoting the source?

 

[The Starchild]

Originally posted by Dave
Live and let live? Pretty reasonable if you ask me Deej. Just a pity about those you mentioned above that spoil it for the rest of us.

I think therein lies the real problem Dave, drugs whilst they often accentuate peoples problems, are not the real problem. This is getting deep, but the real problems are created by a society shaped by movies like 'Pretty Woman" and magazines focusing on beautiful people and status based on financial wealth. Capitalism rewards deception. Oh stuff it I'm going to stop right there.

I could start a whole speil now, but I won't. Fact is that people's problems can be accentuated by drugs, but aren't the real cause.

My outlook on life is idealistic and will never work whilst there are greedy people walking the Earth. But you have to have something to get you by, don't you. I reckon my outlook's ok at the moment, but I'm learning more every day.

 

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by Dave
The same difference between anything legal and illegal. We as a society have deemed that the illegal ones are harmful to our continued existance and therefore their use should be curtailed.

Then why aren't alcohol and tobacco illegal Dave? After all, they cause much more harm to society than Joe Bloggs taking his E , or Mr Citizen smoking a joint when he gets home from work, correct?

I also find it interesting that nobody has mentioned gambling.

I don't particularly like the fact that good pubs all around Melbourne have been turned into Pokies venues. And i could mount a case that gambling is hurting people JUST as much as heroin abuse. But i'm not about to tell people what they can or can't do. It's their choice. As long as they respect the rights of others, then i have no problem with whatever they want to do with their lives.

I would argue that some drugs cannot be used RESPONSIBLY.

And which drugs would they be?

I'd say Alcohol.

When was the last time you saw a bunch of ravers on ecstacy punch on because someone looked at their girlfriend the wrong way?

Yet we all see that happen every weekend at pubs where people drink too much alcohol. So which drug is actually causing more harm to society?

What was it you said to TT, "Oh, for Christs sake! Fuuck you and your generalizations!", yet here you aren't above using one! Where is your evidence that the "MAJORITY of people who use drugs do so responsibly"?

All around you Dave!

The fact is - some people shouldn't take drugs. Just as some people shouldn't drink alcohol. And just as some people shouldn't gamble.

If you are a responsible user of alcohol, why is it so hard to believe that people can be responsible users of Ecstacy? Or Marijuana? Or even heroin?

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by Macca19


I dunno who he is...but like anyone who writes an FAQ, im sure they are extremely knowledgable and know what they are talking about.

How sure?

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by gPhonque
HEY BEE - YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS HAD THEIR HOUSE BROKEN INTO BY SMACKIES. GET OVER YOURSELF.

... and you're suggesting we should just put up with this?

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by TigerTank


That's a nice little statistic. Mind quoting the source?

The source...my brain. I made it up...i didnt claim it to be a real statistic. I figure (a guess) 3/4 of the world would of tried some sort of drug before....therefore if everyone whos tried drugs ends up a heroin addict...

not that important really

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by The Starchild
I think therein lies the real problem Dave, drugs whilst they often accentuate peoples problems, are not the real problem. This is getting deep, but the real problems are created by a society shaped by movies like 'Pretty Woman" and magazines focusing on beautiful people and status based on financial wealth. Capitalism rewards deception. Oh stuff it I'm going to stop right there.

Fair call, I think I know where you're heading and I agree with most of it.

I could start a whole speil now, but I won't. Fact is that people's problems can be accentuated by drugs, but aren't the real cause.

My outlook on life is idealistic and will never work whilst there are greedy people walking the Earth. But you have to have something to get you by, don't you.

That you do.

I reckon my outlook's ok at the moment, but I'm learning more every day.

Any day you learn something is not a day wasted.

 

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by TigerTank



This is such a wonderfully bizarre post that I have to ask what you were on when you wrote it.

lol

Tobacco actually.....

And perhaps it's just bizarre because you know i make a decent point:

I'm not hurting you if i smoke a joint.

And you're not hurting me if you own guns.

What exactly is so bizarre about that?

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by TigerTank


How sure?

How do i know that Peter Thomas who created the Prodigy FAQ is really a fan of the Prodigy??

How do i know that Stoneface from the alt.music.Korn website who created the Korn FAQ is a fan of Korn??

How do i know this?? Common sense i would of thought.

 

[Bee]

Originally posted by gPhonque
HEY BEE - YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS HAD THEIR HOUSE BROKEN INTO BY SMACKIES. GET OVER YOURSELF.

And remember - according to you, drugs is drugs. That must mean that since you drink, you are also going to turn to heroin, just like the arseholes who broke into your house.

After all, drugs is drugs......recreational or not, right?

And Bee, answer this - What is the difference between legal and illegal drugs?

Do you consider your alcohol use "responsible use"???

(

Gee, what a nice attitude to have. Your brain a little warped from drug abuse is it?
A bit like saying to someone whose 15 year old daughter has just died from a drug overdose "you're not the only one who has lost a daughter from drug abuse, get over it" You are a moron!

Is my use of alcohol responsible? Depends on what you call responsible! I never drive if I have been drinking so I am not likely to kill some innocent person. Responsible? Yes!
Do I drink too much at times? I do. Responsible? Depends. I never harm myself or anyone else. You decide on that one.

The difference between legal and illegal is this. I can go out with a couple of friends and have a few drinks to talk and socialise, I can go to business lunches and have a couple of drinks while talking things through. That is the difference! You take drugs so you can have a good time or whatever reason you do it. Frankly I don't care. You can fry your brain with as many illegal substances as you like, I don't a flying **** as long as you are not hurting me or any of the people I love.
BTW if you ever have to go through the feeling of walking into your home and finding it has been violated by pricks who either won't or can't work for a living because their brains no longer function. If you ever walk into your house and find everything you worked your arse off for gone or destroyed then maybe someone will tell you to get over it too. Now piss off and don't bother me again with your ****!

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by gPhonque
Then why aren't alcohol and tobacco illegal Dave?

Politics. Governments make far too much money from tobacco and alcohol to prohibit them. In my opinion though smoking should be illegal and the penalties for drink driving should be a hell of a lot tougher.

After all, they cause much more harm to society than Joe Bloggs taking his E , or Mr Citizen smoking a joint when he gets home from work, correct?

Yep.

I also find it interesting that nobody has mentioned gambling.

It's not a drug.

But i'm not about to tell people what they can or can't do. It's their choice. As long as they respect the rights of others, then i have no problem with whatever they want to do with their lives.

Ah, anarchy. Good in theory, not so good in practice.

And which drugs would they be?

Cocaine to name one.

I'd say Alcohol.

So would many. Unfortunately for them, not enough to get the law changed.

When was the last time you saw a bunch of ravers on ecstacy punch on because someone looked at their girlfriend the wrong way?

Yet we all see that happen every weekend at pubs where people drink too much alcohol. So which drug is actually causing more harm to society?

No argument here. I've never argued that alcohol is not as harmful. I've no more time for pissheads than I do for junkies.

All around you Dave!

Twaddle.

The fact is - some people shouldn't take drugs. Just as some people shouldn't drink alcohol. And just as some people shouldn't gamble.

If you are a responsible user of alcohol, why is it so hard to believe that people can be responsible users of Ecstacy? Or Marijuana? Or even heroin?

What's so hard to understand that having seen the harm alcohol abuse can do there are some people who aren't thrilled at the idea of what might occur under the influence of these drugs?

 

[glenferrie boy]

All drugs are dangerous when used irresponsibly, including alcohol and tobacco. We know alcohol is related to more deaths than any other substance. But why is it still legal? Because the majority of people drink and it is socially acceptable to have a drink or 2 with dinner or lunch.

But E's and speed on the other hand are used by way, way less people and therefore society cannot accept this. If the government could make millions in tax dollars from harder drugs i am sure they would find away to make them legal. How close was marijuana from being legalised?? If you start making exceptions then there are reasons to legalise every drug.

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by gPhonque


lol

Tobacco actually.....

And perhaps it's just bizarre because you know i make a decent point:

I'm not hurting you if i smoke a joint.

And you're not hurting me if you own guns.

What exactly is so bizarre about that?

I didn't think tobacco could make one so aggro!

My point about ecstacy is that there are better choices for a smart person to make (could be a catchphrase for an ad!). Ecstacy can kill (fact) and can cause mental illness (fact), and there are 14 year olds who visit this site who should be encouraged not to try it, legal or not.

I don't think I mentioned a direct link between ecstacy and heroin - there may well be one.

My point about heroin is that I have seen no evidence that there is a responsible way to use heroin. And I don't think people should have a right to do something until they are responsible for their own actions.

I personally find marijuana disgusting and anti-social, but that is irrelevant.

The reason tobacco and alcohol are (allegedly) the biggest problem to society is precisely because they are they are legal. Therefore, if you were to legalise marijuana (a different debate entirely) or any other drug of addiction is that it too would become even more damaging drug than it currently is.

It is too late to ban alcohol and cigarettes - what is the point of adding all the problems of another "legal" drug of addiction?

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Bee

Is my use of alcohol responsible? Depends on what you call responsible! I never drive if I have been drinking so I am not likely to kill some innocent person. Responsible? Yes!
Do I drink too much at times? I do. Responsible? Depends. I never harm myself or anyone else. You decide on that one.

Anyone who is under the influence of alcohol or drugs is being irresponsible. No matter how you explain it.

Try explaining that to someone who has lost a friend/family to a drunk driver.

 

[TigerTank]

Or to put it as a question, in what way would legalising drugs make Australia a better place for the majority than it is now?

 

[Bee]

Read my post. I said I don't drink and drive.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by TigerTank

My point about ecstacy is that there are better choices for a smart person to make (could be a catchphrase for an ad!). Ecstacy can kill (fact) and can cause mental illness (fact), and there are 14 year olds who visit this site who should be encouraged not to try it, legal or not.

Alcohol can kill (fact), tobacco can kill (fact), marijuana can kill (fact). Any drug can kill. Don't just single out Ecstacy.

I don't think I mentioned a direct link between ecstacy and heroin - there may well be one.

So we've heard.

 

[Bee]

Glenferrie boy, you started this thread as an innocent question of who goes to raves. It got turned into a drug use thread somehow. I wasn't even going to post in until I saw the comment of suggesting to a 14 year old to try cocaine. That was my main gripe. But to answer your original question about raves. No. I don't go. They are probably fine for 18 - 21 year olds, but I am 29 and I they don't turn me on at all. The music IMHO is total rubbish, but a lot of people like it. Fair enough. I would rather have a live band at a pub any day though. Okay?

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Bee
Read my post. I said I don't drink and drive.

oops.. my bad.. you get the point though

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
Alcohol can kill (fact), tobacco can kill (fact), marijuana can kill (fact). Any drug can kill. Don't just single out Ecstacy.

One drink won't kill you. One cigarette wont kill you. One E can. One hit of coke can. One hit of smack can.

Spot the difference?

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Dave


One drink won't kill you. One cigarette wont kill you. One E can. One hit of coke can. One hit of smack can.

Spot the difference?

Sorry Dave, but that is totally wrong. One cigarette CAN kill you, and one drink CAN kill you.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Bee
Glenferrie boy, you started this thread as an innocent question of who goes to raves. It got turned into a drug use thread somehow. I wasn't even going to post in until I saw the comment of suggesting to a 14 year old to try cocaine. That was my main gripe. But to answer your original question about raves. No. I don't go. They are probably fine for 18 - 21 year olds, but I am 29 and I they don't turn me on at all. The music IMHO is total rubbish, but a lot of people like it. Fair enough. I would rather have a live band at a pub any day though. Okay?

Thats cool.. All I wanted by putting this thread up was to find out who did and didn't go. There was plenty of response. Personally i have been going to raves for 2 1/2 years now. And had a pill at my first one (kryal castle, ballarat). It still remains in my memory as the best night of my life. However I am getting a bit over raves.. and more into festivals - i.e Big day out (crystal method, prodigy, basement jaxx etc) and vibes on a summerday. I don't mind going to the occasional party but I am sick of those days sitting around trying to sleep, or just feeling scattered and dirty. I prefer going to pubs, drinking and socialising and find it more enjoyable for me at the moment.

I don't know how people can rave for so long (5 years or more..) its not just the drugs.. but all those long weekends.. sleepless nights.. they become a drain if you don't enjoy it 100%. I am losing the urge to go partying which is good for my brain and my hip pocket.. But it has been an experience, which i will never forget, for good and bad reasons (more good than bad). And i don't intend it to stop altogether, not yet anyway.

 

[FIGJAM]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Sorry Dave, but that is totally wrong. One cigarette CAN kill you, and one drink CAN kill you.

Correct. Pretzels CAN kill you...just ask George Dubya!

I do not want ANY drugs legalised. I think the system is correct the way it is and is going about the right way to minimise cigarette usage. Alcohol will never be illeagal, which is odd given its ferocity.

All I ask is that we realise that it is all dangerous and that it will be used by people anyway.

It is thus important to be advised of what can happen and, wether you agree with it or not, there are ways it can be done responsibly. To say otherwise is merely a demonstation of your ignorance, which is fine, but don't just preech off the back of pamphlets 'cause I've read 'em all!!!

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Sorry Dave, but that is totally wrong. One cigarette CAN kill you,

Instantly, stone dead? Not bloody likely.

one drink CAN kill you.

If's it's big enough maybe. Not too likely though is it?

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Dave


If's it's big enough maybe. Not too likely though is it?

Well its not bloody likely that you would die from one pill, or one line of speed.

Heroin is another issue..