Fisher did some things that were simply WOW.. footy IQ poise and ability to sidestep and wrong foot players as well as he’s lightning hands is brilliant also..
Autopsy Rd 14 Blues go home at half time
- Thread starter The Old Dark Navy's
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bugger
I believed at the start of this season we had a side capable of making the 8. Given our run with injuries I believe we should have made the 8. So I am very disappointed to not make the 8. Imo a good rebuild should have seen us (with luck re injuries) contesting for a finals spot in year 4 (2019) and contesting for top 4 by year 5 and following.
i have been very pleased with the progress of the rebuild. I think we have recruited plenty of talent and now have necessary reserves to make injuries of no significant consequence. I like Teague as coach. We play an enjoyable game to watch with a ball-controlling style of footy with the ability to take contested marks all over the field, against anyone.
The main reason we are not playing finals footy imo is that an experienced core of players do not seem to have the self-belief to know if they play their best against anyone, they will win. The blues teams of yore, at least those since 1968, had that knowledge.
It helped us win without kicking a goal in the last quarter of the 68 gf.
It helped us win the 1970 gf after being 42 points down at halftime.
It helped us win the 72 gf with a record score after we had been thrashed by Richmond in the replayed second semi-final (along with big nick playing as a forward pocket ruckman and letting the taller Percy quell the athletic Michael green).
And so on.
Successful teams are driven by winning attitudes.
This year I have been tortured by the blues worse than in any other season I can remember. I feel I know we are better than the players think they are. Thus my torture. It is the only way I can explain the capitulation to hawthorn, to name one of many disappointment. Sure are win against the dogs was great, but our win against the cats should have been a foregone conclusion at 3/4 time, not a heart-stopper at the end, etc, etc.
The Cats teams from 89-95 were fantastic high scoring, talented sides who won 0 flags. They weren’t unlucky. They didn’t have the belief.
This season is over. We won’t win all our last 4 games (though talent-wise I think we could). I want Us to play each of our last 4 games like it is our last. I want Martin to kick for goal like Newnes did 2 weeks ago, and yesterday, if the only other option is a Cripps crowded by 3 defenders. I want Docherty and Cripps to show they know we are going to win by increasing their intensity when the games get close, but by trusting their teammates, not by trying to win off their own boots. I want us to crush each team we play with a ruthlessness that’s knows no tomorrow.
I also want Cottrell back to play on Whitfield.
- Mar 19, 2014
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Agree with most of what you are saying, but until the AFL come out and state what the list numbers are for next year, we should not be signing up Simmo, Kreuze and Betts even if it is for "just in case"
That’s a fairy ridiculous comparison, laughable actually...
compare stats on the two at the same age/experience and i think you'd be shocked
theoneyed
Rookie
Still majorly disappointed with yesterdays result.
I agree we have improved since Teague has taken over, however after this loss we are more likely not to make the finals, which is why winning yesterday was so crucial to the development of our side.
I also agree this game was lost at selection. H
I think it's time the club faces the reality that as long as the likes of Murphy, Simpsonare getting games before some of the players running around in the 2nds then we will not be a team that will contest finals.
Totally agree. What does it say about our depth of talent when the likes of Murphy and Simpson are playing before LOB, Kennedy, Dow & Polson (until his game). Surely the younger players should have pushed them out of the team by now. I get Teague saying he's not gifting any players games, but at the same time, he has responsibility to the development of the youngsters. If Murphy and co can keep out LOB and co. then at least be honest about the level of talent some of these players running around in the seconds actually possess.
Additionally, the match committee have to have a good hard look at themselves.
Firstly, we all know the reserves matches are at best 3rd tier level intensity. I would expect that any AFL listed player worth his weight would be dominating these mickey mouse scratch matches. So before promoting players who are supposedly dominating at this level, make sure you get it right. This season I have heard Teague mention the likes of Moore, Dow, Polson, Honey all killing it, but when promoted to the firsts couldn't cope with the intensity. (Apologies to Honey).
Secondly, why the hell would you rest two players SPS and Cottrell for a do or die clash?! This is ridiculous. If SPS has a shoulder injury which is restricting him then say so. If he's being dropped because his form has been poor, then say omitted! As for Cottrell, Why would you rest a 19 year old who has only played 2 games in a row and has qualities we desperately needed against the pies, speed and a bit of grunt/mongrel.
We have definitely improved since Teague has taken over the reigns but I feel we are still not taken seriously by any other club we play. We're the club that other teams know will crack under any pressure, because we do. All good saying we have to play our way and we'll win. What happens when other clubs don't allow us to play our way? We don't cope, both on the field but worryingly also the coaches box.
I never imagined the club I've supported my whole life (over 40 years) is still struggling to make decisions that are best for the club. I'm sorry but the loyalty of the past doesn't exist anymore. No players should be bigger than the club itself. I know a lot of people may disagree, but loyalty was gone as soon big money contracts and free agency began.
It's time that Carlton starts to make decisions that are in the best interest of the club winning another premiership and this should be the only focus. The club, administration and coaches need to start being ruthless. If players don't have the talent to play and be part of our next premiership then, i'm sorry, thanks for your service and all the best. This should include telling Simpson, Murphy and Kreuzer now there time is over and you won't be getting contracts next season. I would also be up for letting the likes of Polson, Moore, Goddard, Lang, know that they will need to look else where. I would put up for trade LOB, Kennedy and Dow while they still have any trade value. it may be harsh, but we need to bring in A grade midfielders and a small defender. Unfortunately I don't believe these players have shown enough in their 3 seasons especially considering they were such high draft picks. I know some of you will say oh, give them time, they have only played under 50 games, I'm sorry if truth be told, I have not seen them play one whole game that made me think, this kid will grow to be a good player. Kennedy is just too slow. Might get his hands but not enough to warrant keeping him as the opposition continually run off him. LOB has been playing in the seconds all season and was recruited as a quick winger with a great penetrating left leg and huge stamina. Sounds like exactly what we need, instead Murphy who is a slow midfielder playing on the wing with little to no contested pressure is holding him out of the game. The coaches say LOB is working on his running patterns. WTF is running patterns. Why don't they call it what it is. He runs one way and is absolutely terrible defensively. F*&@ing running patterns. He's been playing footy his whole life he knows which way to run. As for DOW, as much as I have willed for him to be the player I hope he could be, something is askew. There are players who want the ball and you see it in their attack and desperation, Walsh. Dow just seems way too timid and his confidence is shot. He was drafted cause of his breakaway speed, again exactly what we need. There was no breakaway speed against the pies. And yes he's coming back from injury, well if he's not right don't play him and if he's right to play, then he has to be held accountable. Not saying he is a fail, but I haven't seen anything so far that gives me confidence in him being anything I would expect from a number 3 draft pick.
Harsh but that what I feel is needed from this club.
Loyalty is fans paying for their memberships to a club year in year out when the club continues to be managed poorly from Boardroom to administration and each year the club feeds us the same old line, and we pay our memberships and they give us the same old performances.
Its time the club starts thinking about the loyal fans and putting their hard earned money to proper use and at least making the top 8 in the 6 year rebuild they promoted.
It's time that the board, coaches and players who don't perform to the level that gives the club the best chance of making finals are held accountable and moved on if they don't get on board.
It's time this club starts to repay the loyal fans who have put up with supporting arguably the worst performing club of the past 20 years with bare minimum no more excuses and a team that will at least give us 100% effort a brand of football we can be proud of. Otherwise thanks for your service and good luck with your future endeavours!
I agree we have improved since Teague has taken over, however after this loss we are more likely not to make the finals, which is why winning yesterday was so crucial to the development of our side.
I also agree this game was lost at selection. H
I think it's time the club faces the reality that as long as the likes of Murphy, Simpsonare getting games before some of the players running around in the 2nds then we will not be a team that will contest finals.
Totally agree. What does it say about our depth of talent when the likes of Murphy and Simpson are playing before LOB, Kennedy, Dow & Polson (until his game). Surely the younger players should have pushed them out of the team by now. I get Teague saying he's not gifting any players games, but at the same time, he has responsibility to the development of the youngsters. If Murphy and co can keep out LOB and co. then at least be honest about the level of talent some of these players running around in the seconds actually possess.
Additionally, the match committee have to have a good hard look at themselves.
Firstly, we all know the reserves matches are at best 3rd tier level intensity. I would expect that any AFL listed player worth his weight would be dominating these mickey mouse scratch matches. So before promoting players who are supposedly dominating at this level, make sure you get it right. This season I have heard Teague mention the likes of Moore, Dow, Polson, Honey all killing it, but when promoted to the firsts couldn't cope with the intensity. (Apologies to Honey).
Secondly, why the hell would you rest two players SPS and Cottrell for a do or die clash?! This is ridiculous. If SPS has a shoulder injury which is restricting him then say so. If he's being dropped because his form has been poor, then say omitted! As for Cottrell, Why would you rest a 19 year old who has only played 2 games in a row and has qualities we desperately needed against the pies, speed and a bit of grunt/mongrel.
We have definitely improved since Teague has taken over the reigns but I feel we are still not taken seriously by any other club we play. We're the club that other teams know will crack under any pressure, because we do. All good saying we have to play our way and we'll win. What happens when other clubs don't allow us to play our way? We don't cope, both on the field but worryingly also the coaches box.
I never imagined the club I've supported my whole life (over 40 years) is still struggling to make decisions that are best for the club. I'm sorry but the loyalty of the past doesn't exist anymore. No players should be bigger than the club itself. I know a lot of people may disagree, but loyalty was gone as soon big money contracts and free agency began.
It's time that Carlton starts to make decisions that are in the best interest of the club winning another premiership and this should be the only focus. The club, administration and coaches need to start being ruthless. If players don't have the talent to play and be part of our next premiership then, i'm sorry, thanks for your service and all the best. This should include telling Simpson, Murphy and Kreuzer now there time is over and you won't be getting contracts next season. I would also be up for letting the likes of Polson, Moore, Goddard, Lang, know that they will need to look else where. I would put up for trade LOB, Kennedy and Dow while they still have any trade value. it may be harsh, but we need to bring in A grade midfielders and a small defender. Unfortunately I don't believe these players have shown enough in their 3 seasons especially considering they were such high draft picks. I know some of you will say oh, give them time, they have only played under 50 games, I'm sorry if truth be told, I have not seen them play one whole game that made me think, this kid will grow to be a good player. Kennedy is just too slow. Might get his hands but not enough to warrant keeping him as the opposition continually run off him. LOB has been playing in the seconds all season and was recruited as a quick winger with a great penetrating left leg and huge stamina. Sounds like exactly what we need, instead Murphy who is a slow midfielder playing on the wing with little to no contested pressure is holding him out of the game. The coaches say LOB is working on his running patterns. WTF is running patterns. Why don't they call it what it is. He runs one way and is absolutely terrible defensively. F*&@ing running patterns. He's been playing footy his whole life he knows which way to run. As for DOW, as much as I have willed for him to be the player I hope he could be, something is askew. There are players who want the ball and you see it in their attack and desperation, Walsh. Dow just seems way too timid and his confidence is shot. He was drafted cause of his breakaway speed, again exactly what we need. There was no breakaway speed against the pies. And yes he's coming back from injury, well if he's not right don't play him and if he's right to play, then he has to be held accountable. Not saying he is a fail, but I haven't seen anything so far that gives me confidence in him being anything I would expect from a number 3 draft pick.
Harsh but that what I feel is needed from this club.
Loyalty is fans paying for their memberships to a club year in year out when the club continues to be managed poorly from Boardroom to administration and each year the club feeds us the same old line, and we pay our memberships and they give us the same old performances.
Its time the club starts thinking about the loyal fans and putting their hard earned money to proper use and at least making the top 8 in the 6 year rebuild they promoted.
It's time that the board, coaches and players who don't perform to the level that gives the club the best chance of making finals are held accountable and moved on if they don't get on board.
It's time this club starts to repay the loyal fans who have put up with supporting arguably the worst performing club of the past 20 years with bare minimum no more excuses and a team that will at least give us 100% effort a brand of football we can be proud of. Otherwise thanks for your service and good luck with your future endeavours!
- Feb 5, 2016
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Getting rid of daisy before Simpson was mind boggling. He may have been a bit of a larrikin, but **** me he worked his ass off for our club. Tried harder than anyone on our list and we reward him by chopping him.
If you are performing well and tried as hard as him, you should have your own say when to hang up the boots. This club does my head in sometimes.
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- Feb 11, 2011
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Yeah you’re so right! I’d hate it if our young players were learning from a bloke who won an AFLPA MVP. Fronted up every week and captained us through one of the worst periods in the history of the club. Never asked to leave, never chased glory somewhere else.It was worse when they made him captainwho is expected to follow his lead and model their game off his!?
The reason his body isn’t what it used to be is because he put it in the firing line for years.
Revisionist history at its finest to paint him as someone who never earned our respect.
Very disappointing loss, Collingwood undermanned and they beat us easily.
Big differences were our ball handling and disposal. We just turn it over too easily under pressure and credit to them they brought pressure. Our disposal isn't good enough.
The other things that stand out in all our losses are that we turn the ball over too easily and can't score. I don't think there are too many teams in the competition who are marked against inside 50 as much as we are.
Our forwards are stagnant, we just bomb it into big talls and they get out marked. We're desperate for a forward who leads up hard at the ball and will go out of his way to bring it to ground. We are desperate for Charlie Curnow.
Beaten in clearances, beaten in contested possession, not enough pressure inside 50. We set Collingwood up beautifully to rebound. Turning it inside 50 and not appling much pressure at ground level.
Same players go missing in the games where the going is tough. Casboult, McKay, Gibbons, Plowman. Boy do they not rate Plowman, exploit him and go through him every time and force him to play full back.
Dow wasn't terrible but he wasn't good. Not sure he was a great inclusion, perhaps Cottrell with his ability to run was a better option. Polson was alright without setting the world on fire.
Our game plan needs to be looked at. How we can open the forward line up. Teams do it against us. Perhaps we don't move the ball quick enough or perhaps we aren't pushing numbers back and playing hard defensive footy enough. Forward line wasn't functional
Big differences were our ball handling and disposal. We just turn it over too easily under pressure and credit to them they brought pressure. Our disposal isn't good enough.
The other things that stand out in all our losses are that we turn the ball over too easily and can't score. I don't think there are too many teams in the competition who are marked against inside 50 as much as we are.
Our forwards are stagnant, we just bomb it into big talls and they get out marked. We're desperate for a forward who leads up hard at the ball and will go out of his way to bring it to ground. We are desperate for Charlie Curnow.
Beaten in clearances, beaten in contested possession, not enough pressure inside 50. We set Collingwood up beautifully to rebound. Turning it inside 50 and not appling much pressure at ground level.
Same players go missing in the games where the going is tough. Casboult, McKay, Gibbons, Plowman. Boy do they not rate Plowman, exploit him and go through him every time and force him to play full back.
Dow wasn't terrible but he wasn't good. Not sure he was a great inclusion, perhaps Cottrell with his ability to run was a better option. Polson was alright without setting the world on fire.
Our game plan needs to be looked at. How we can open the forward line up. Teams do it against us. Perhaps we don't move the ball quick enough or perhaps we aren't pushing numbers back and playing hard defensive footy enough. Forward line wasn't functional
All fair points
I guess it was possible to buck the trend of a rebuilding side and make finals this year, but I just didn't see that as a given. On the other hand I would be somewhat disappointed if we don't make the 8 next year.
I enjoy Teague's attacking gameplan, what I haven't enjoyed is the lack of gears
I agree, Cottrell should be in the side at this stage
I would answer it this way
Hardwick took over a better list at Richmond in 2010. They made finals in 2013-season 4
The Carlton task is much greater but I would be concerned if we don't make finals in 2021-season 6.
Given a midtable finish in 2021 Carlton would face trading drafted players to improve the list which hardly verifies the success of the rebuild
I was referring to the footy IQ you mentioned, Harry has him covered by a mile and also in ability for that matter, as far as stats only 44 games 61 goals in due mainly to injuries from 101 games so far... Vickery 75 games 78 goals by the end of his 5th season, he was not blessed in the footy IQ department similar height as far as skill speed and athleticism not even close...
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Arrow I had us at 10 wins as a bare pass but I said it is more than that, we need to win 3 games in a row. You are in complete denial and can not acknowledge we played in a huge game against an arch enemy and failed on multiple fronts as we did against Hawthorn and the Saints. Please spare the forum your sugar coating of wins against the likes of Essendon and the Dockers. They are hardly the litmus test of the competition. Defeating the Cats as underdogs was nice but where is the win when we are under pressure to propel ourselves into the 8? Toddle along now and keep living your delusion and convincing everyone-how we are fine and the worm will just turn. It does not work that way unless there is complete honesty and rectification of our fault lines around: leadership, hardness, winning culture, midfield, player development and coaches with premiership experience
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Leave Cripps alone FFS!
Elmer_Judd
Everyone's favourite grouch
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Never been a fan of the game was lost at the selection table, and certainly don't think it applies especially in last night's game.
As we have seen so many times over the years, I think the playing group (collectively) through they had the game won at half time, and accordingly slacked off after half time.
.
I am still annoyed with the millionaires mindset from some of the players creeping in.
We just beat a lowly Freo 2 weeks ago and young and fatigued Suns outfit the week later, and it's fair to say the players once again have drank their bathwater.
And yes, I am bitterly disappointed with the on field leaders (Not just with Doc and Simmo either)
I want the players to come out firing and really angry against GWS, play as physically hard as the Giants as possible and if one of the lads cops a week or two for smacking a Kelly or Toby Greene (in play off course), not only would I condone it, I would be pleased to see a bit of mongrel back in the team.
Sick of us being physically outmuscled in games, we need a line the sand game where the players go a bit troppo, rustle some feathers and yeah maybe court some controversy.
If we are going down this season, I want to take others with us.
As we have seen so many times over the years, I think the playing group (collectively) through they had the game won at half time, and accordingly slacked off after half time.
.
I am still annoyed with the millionaires mindset from some of the players creeping in.
We just beat a lowly Freo 2 weeks ago and young and fatigued Suns outfit the week later, and it's fair to say the players once again have drank their bathwater.
And yes, I am bitterly disappointed with the on field leaders (Not just with Doc and Simmo either)
I want the players to come out firing and really angry against GWS, play as physically hard as the Giants as possible and if one of the lads cops a week or two for smacking a Kelly or Toby Greene (in play off course), not only would I condone it, I would be pleased to see a bit of mongrel back in the team.
Sick of us being physically outmuscled in games, we need a line the sand game where the players go a bit troppo, rustle some feathers and yeah maybe court some controversy.
If we are going down this season, I want to take others with us.
cleomenes
Cancelled
- Nov 18, 2010
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I found this post very interesting. It matches so many on our board, talking about our team at different times this year. (and others).
It all looks so different from the other side of the fence. I saw a game that I was in fear of losing until the last 7 or 8 minutes. I saw a game where some Carlton players got away with distressing ease, and passed with accuracy our players couldn't match. I saw a young ruckman who is going to be outstanding.
I was curious to read how Carlton supporters compared to ours, which is why I read 7 or 8 pages here. You are the same as us. Intolerant of failure, and so quick to target your own for blame. If you want some comfort, read some of our match analysis in the weeks that we were beaten.
So 10 wins in a full season had us outside the 8. 8 wins in a revised fixture is akin to 10 in a full season
Never in denial Michael I am a realist. So again, please refrain from the personal remarks
The topic was have we improved, and you added it should be viewed under Teague
Go back to last year, from Teague, if I recall correctly only the Saints game has changed in the against, but their formline stacks up
We have had a 10 goal turnaround from the Dogs( who you said would spank us), same goes for the Cats
Dockers same margin, Demons similar, as was Tigers and WC. More convincing against an improving GC
So despite your opinion, facts suggest we have improved underTeague
Btw, your 3 in a row is one of the most ridiculous kpis I have ever seen, NO CLUB uses this as a measure of progress, NONE
- Jun 4, 2016
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I agree with this but for the sake of discussion maybe theres a little bit of something there, after last week Cripps stated 'the blues are back'. Some arrogance, little bit of swagger that's fine if you back it up on the field. Our next opportunity to do so looks a bit like the players were believing what Cripps had said and were just waiting for 'it' to happen. When the team that wanted the win more got going they ran over the top. Would obviously hope that the team doesn't consistently get ahead of themselves but years of struggling may see players like Cripps jump ahead and get over excited/ over confident that it's all coming together. Game was hopefully (another) reality check for a few players and coaches about how tough playing high level football for a full season is, and it's not even a full season.
JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
- May 31, 2012
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Yep
Midfield was trounced - so maximum pressure on defensive structure AND crappy delivery into a very disorganized forward structure = mess.
Some weeks the midfield ( as a group) plays with more attack on ball and man and other weeks ( like yesterday) for inexplicable reasons - they go into the layoff the tackle and coral the opposition mode - that never works to our advantage.
The most worrying thing (for me) is the penchant for going along the boundary becomes the default and only play in our playbook - doesn't take opposition teams long to match up for that and take the mark down the line out of play.
Second distressing fact was Collingwood being able to outnumber Carlton with overlap running creating numbers and being able to run around and through the fat side of the park - I just don't get that when it happens repeatedly - a massive red flag to players not running with their direct opponent in defence - Richmond do that to us and Saints beat us doing exactly the same thing....
One of those games where the opposition coach was able to nullify our game plan and exploit structural weakness over 4 quarters - Teague was schooled big time.
You have to win three in a row to win the premiership.
thylacine60
Premium Platinum
- Banned
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Couldn't agree more, we were absolutely patheric.....Taken the time to cool down and not post with emotion .....
fu** we were patheric!
leaderless, rudderless just a dear in headlights.
thought we were better than that 2nd half abomination.
unfortunately this club seems to know how to build up th3 supporters just to tear them down.
really disappointed in my club and players tonight.
go baggers sniff .....
- Nov 27, 2016
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Corralling the opposition is outdated. Good teams don't do it, the go at the man and test them out. Biggest problem is the midfield and forwards make it hard for the midfielders themselves. Play is meant to stop for the midfielders when it goes inside 50, it's not because we are turning it over too quickly and letting it out too quickly in there again. Midfield is getting tired because it's defending too much because too often play isn't stopping when it goes forward. Intercept marks against and quick rebounds killed us.
We lack a bit of dash in defence, so we're going wide. Went up the middle a bit but turned it over. To play corridore footy we must be able to run fast and kick well and we failed in that area.
Long story short we were once again worn down by our inability to lock the ball in our forward line either by gaining possession or causing a stoppage.
Defensive footy is something we are unable to overcome. Push numbers back and rebound quick is the key to beating Carlton as long as you can intercept the ball and they did.
Stagnant forwards who don't lead and run at the ball. Too many big tall blokes, not enough lead up types. Too much intercepting by the opposition. We need to start hitting targets and keeping the ball inside our forward line, that way our mids can stay fresh and have a chance of defending.
You don't need to win 3 in a row to make the top 4 nor a GF
We are a mid table side, that's the reality
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