Rebuilding should be ongoing.

[nut]

like i suggested...you can pick them or you can get them if you have missed the boat...when you do miss the boat and you have a group of youngsters ready to make the push...then you improvise...if you dont, you miss the boat and are left waiting for something that you are hoping.

You must continually draft good players is a kind of simpletons view of the planet...why? because as the form guide suggests...you simply cant...

You are purely reacting to the shitness of the spud...i.e polarising your thoughts on a shit coach who went out and got shit players. All top sides do what is nessecary to get the the chocolates when they havent got the total mix. If you have a gun that emerges as you make your way to the top...then you are good...if you havent got one that emerges and you are making your way to the top, you look and see at who is available and if they fit the bill, you pounce and fill that hole. Because when that window opens, you have to be ready.

Can you name the players Mathews traded for to win three flags in a row?

Can you name which players Port traded for to win a flag?

Can you name a player Roos Traded for to win a flag?

Worsfold?

Ok Geelog took ottens... from us.

 

[CoggaRules]

Can you name the players Mathews traded for to win three flags in a row?

Can you name which players Port traded for to win a flag?

Can you name a player Roos Traded for to win a flag?

Worsfold?

Ok Geelog took ottens... from us.

geelong took ottens from us and took Mooney from the roos to add to their guns in Bartel, Corey, Ling and co.


Mathews didnt have to trade...he got Lynch, Johnson and co served to him on a platter...he added the guns, in Voss, Black, Power and co and kicked butt.

Worsfold and Port didnt do much...yeah...but....see if you can see the difference between cats/lions and port/eagles...

here is a hint...sustained dominance, why? because port and the eagles relied on treadmill and flynch....2 home grown talents as their power forwards...and didnt go outside and add to their weaknesses..

All the above had gun mids...that they had brought through the ranks from youngsters together...

All i am saying here dude is you dont polarise your teams development to the one side....you have to bend and move with what unfolds and get to the end result...while in the background you are still picking up youngsters and trying them out.....Hey we might get lucky and pick up 2 gun KPPs next year, but whats the difference to seeing an opportunity pop up with an uncontracted top gun that can provide you another 5 or 6 years of service when your team is in the position to make the push?

Spud had a dud side and thought he had a flag side, and then thought all he needed was top ups....our last finals side made it by default...he added shit to kind of shit that produced complete and utter shit...

 

[JSFish]

What example is that? The Travis Johnstone example?

Shit, they picked up one mature age players. Obviously a pathetic rebuild. We'll just completely disregard the fact that they dropped after their 3 flags and managed to climb back up to mid table after only a year or so.

 

[YellowandBlackBlood]

geelong took ottens from us and took Mooney from the roos to add to their guns in Bartel, Corey, Ling and co.


Mathews didnt have to trade...he got Lynch, Johnson and co served to him on a platter...he added the guns, in Voss, Black, Power and co and kicked butt.

Worsfold and Port didnt do much...yeah...but....see if you can see the difference between cats/lions and port/eagles...

here is a hint...sustained dominance.

Exactly!

This is what we're talking about Cogga! Matthews didn't trade anything away! That is the vital thing. Nobody said that getting extra players to choose from was bad. What we did say was that TRADING DRAFT PICKS and thus possible gun youngsters is HORRIBLE! The loss of generations of potential clubmen, raised from the ground up in your team is what sends you to oblivion.

It's not a simplistic view. It's the truth!

 

[CoggaRules]

Exactly!

This is what we're talking about Cogga! Matthews didn't trade anything away! That is the vital thing. Nobody said that getting extra players to choose from was bad. What we did say was that TRADING DRAFT PICKS and thus possible gun youngsters is HORRIBLE! The loss of generations of potential clubmen, raised from the ground up in your team is what sends you to oblivion.

It's not a simplistic view. It's the truth!

what i am saying is that if you have to trade draft picks for "that" player, that fits the plan, then you do it. We have a plethora of youngsters in and out of the 1s now...we dont have to be lopsided with picking up every youngster that we can...we have rememdied the shitness that Spud created...now its all about making hay while the sun shines..

Spud went out and got 10 recycleds and then picks 600 and 670...FFS. You get maybe one that suits and you still have a stream of youngsters into the club at reasonable levels...the end...

____...in the space of one year, we had Blumfield, Hudson, Hoolahoop, Billy Nicholls, Fleming, Weller, KIng, Morrison, Marsh and the list goes on....
And they call that fuc-king idiot an expert? FFS....i give up...He wanted to ruin the club that ____ing arse wipe.

 

[nut]

Grant Thomas misjudged window of opportunity

Michael Gleeson | May 29, 2008



WHEN candidates were being interviewed for the St Kilda coaching job it was made clear to them by the club that the position they were to fill was leading a side that could win a flag within three years.


Upon his appointment, Ross Lyon said his immediate aim in taking over a side that had made the preliminary final the two previous years was to reach a "strong finals position to challenge for a premiership" in the first year.


It was perhaps an inflated view of the list, but it was a view shared by many inside — and outside — the club. At the start of this season, the Saints were second favourite behind Geelong for the flag.


Having been without a flag for so long, they found themselves within touching distance and their recruitment policy reflected this. Since Lyon's appointment, the Saints have topped up with Michael Gardiner and Steven King as they chased a leading ruckman, while Shane Birss was added for depth. Sean Dempster and Adam Schneider, who joined the Saints this year, remain young enough that they could yet prove meritorious trades.
The significant issue afflicting the under-performing Saints this year, however, relates more to the recruiting in the earlier years. The Saints' lost years.


St Kilda has had more misses than hits with its best draft picks, basically since Luke Ball arrived at the club.


From the 2002 draft, Brendon Goddard and Leigh Fischer have proven their worth, but more crucially, St Kilda traded pick six to Port Adelaide for Barry Brooks. Port used the pick on Stephen Salopek, who has already played 72 games and appears likely to play at least that number again. Brooks was cut by St Kilda last year after an underwhelming 10 career games.


The same year, the club also traded pick 17 to the Bulldogs for Luke Penny. Penny too is spent, gone from the list.


Raphael Clarke was taken pick eight in 2003 and he has teased as a player but ultimately been a disappointment. However, that was a weak draft and few better players were taken later. Sam Fischer, fortunately, was one of them at pick 55.


The next year Andrew McQualter was the Saints first pick at 17. He was later dropped from the list and rookie-listed by the club. He was recently re-elevated to the senior list but has been a disappointment. Mark McGough, Cain Ackland and James Gwilt made up the remainder of their picks. Only Gwilt remains.


In 2005, the club again traded their first-round pick (17), this time to Adelaide for Fergus Watts. The son of the then club chief executive, he was delisted at the end of last season after playing just six games.

Former premiership player and coach and The Age columnist Robert Walls agreed the list was broadly misjudged and that those years of wasted quality picks had hurt St Kilda.


"I think on the way they play they have fooled us a bit, because I certainly thought they were top-four material," he said.


"David Armitage is one I would look to play every week, because they just haven't introduced enough young players in the last 3½ years. Eight in three years compared to Brisbane's 26."


Former St Kilda captain and Richmond coach Danny Frawley said the Saints had fallen for a similar mistake to the Tigers when he was coach, of misreading the list and believing the group was close to a flag and basing their recruiting accordingly.


"There are a few clubs who have tried to top up and get themselves close … the Tigers being one," he said.


"Essendon have tried to top up and top up, and Fremantle thought they had the window of opportunity there to win one. And I reckon it is worth the punt, but it hurts you long term, not short term, if it doesn't work.
"The reason St Kilda got there (close) was because of all the good drafting with the early picks they had, and then they traded draft picks away to get players, and that hasn't helped their wants and needs.


"It has hurt the club and more importantly is hurting Ross Lyon."
Interestingly, in the bumper draft of 2006, St Kilda took Queenslander David Armitage with its first pick (nine). Armitage is an outstanding player, however he satisfied few of the Saints' needs other than succession planning.


With Lenny Hayes, Luke Ball, Robert Harvey and Nick Dal Santo, the Saints did not need another one-paced player. Their needs were for quick, run and carry midfielders or a key-position type.


St Kilda could be advised to be bold in its recruiting and trading this year and perhaps offer up a player such as Armitage, who would be attractive to other clubs, and seek to claim a draft pick or a young key defender or fast midfielder in his stead.


Equally, it might be smart to hold Armitage for another year and seek to trade the former Queenslander home to the new Gold Coast team. Naturally it would not be so clever to lose him for nothing to the new team as an out-of-contract player.


"Armitage is a jet, but was he the player the club really needed?" Frawley said.


"You have an ageing Max Hudghton and devastating injuries to Matt Maguire, and (Collingwood's) Nathan Brown would shore that up.
"Then you think of Hawthorn with a Cyril Rioli to add some speed around your midfield, and he is going to be an A-grade onballer, and you throw in a rookie like a Sharrod Wellingham and you have a very different-looking list.


"I know it is all very easy in hindsight, but you get these sorts of guys with picks instead of the older guys and the list isn't looking too bad."

 

[mattdwyer]

id like to see as the older players such as Richo, Kane etc retire in the next 5 years that we pick up some older players (27-30) just to provide leadership and take the pressure off the young kids...only to replace those that have left
if it was just the kids then id be worried...as good as they are an older head amongst them will i reckon let them grow more

why would u want to pick up blokes 27-30 ???

you just went on about delisting JON before he is even 21 and now you want to pick up old players ... shows how little you know !!

 

[tucker777]

why would u want to pick up blokes 27-30 ???

you just went on about delisting JON before he is even 21 and now you want to pick up old players ... shows how little you know !!

at least the 27-30 year old would show something

 

[nut]

I totally agree with the opening thread.

If you continually pick the best youngsters in the land you will eventually have a team of champions. A good coach will turn that into a champion team.

Of course not all your picks will come to fruition, but then again, that allows culling of the bad picks after 3 to 4 years of observation. This culling then makes room (together with retirements) on the list for the next set of gun youngsters. Your recruiting team's ability to pick the best talent is paramount.

Teams now should only trade draft picks for under 22 year old types that are disgruntled at their former club or homesick. Otherwise the club would not let a potentially good player go and so most likely you would end up with a dud.

It seems so easy, but teams continually get ahead of themselves and think they are just one or two players off a premiership. History has shown that to be a lethal way of thinking with very few teams achieving success in that manner (Geelong with Mooney and Ottens is one of those anomalies).

We cannot afford to stray down this path again. Others have quoted Broderick and Gale and Chris Bond as successful examples but I would argue as good as these boys were, none of them brought back a premiership cup back to punt road. And there is the lesson. Even getting one good player isn't going to bring success. Usually this has meant trading multiple draft picks or very high draft picks. Those acquiring the picks are able to collect a group of youngsters and bring them through the system together. North in the 90's, Brisbane and Geelong more recently have shown the power of bringing a group of youngsters through at the same time.

NO MORE SHORT CUTS RICHMOND!!!!! Continue with the current youth policy forever and success WILL come.

I thought this psot needed a bump leading into to trade week.

 

[coke_zero]

I thought this psot needed a bump leading into to trade week.

yep, keep the youngsters comming through. send all the richmond recruting staff on a hoilday during trade week

 

[YellowandBlackBlood]

I will now add Hawthorn to that group of teams that have used the youth policy to create a dynasty of potential success. Dew added bulk and experience with exquisite kicking ability but they gave nothing away for him. Very clever indeed.

 

[Peter SasseGum]

I'd term it as a constant building up of the side with a focus on continious improvement.

No side will ever be 100% perfect, and should always be looking to improve.

It's reassuring now to know that the Tigers now have the processes in place that lend themselves towards constant improvement; complancy will never be a part of the Tigers thinking.

Well done to TW and his team for making the club drive itself towards higher standards, pushing the side to greater heights