Richmond 2012

[lesrythmes]

Some weird opinions on here...

Why would Griff play CHB when his weapons are his marking and long/accurate kicking? CHF or not in the side, and probably only CHF this year if Maric fails and Ty becomes a class ruckman.

Why would Derricx play CHF when Jack and Ty are becoming the next powerhouse key forward pairing? Would put Jack, Ty, and if Ty isn't there Griffiths above him. There's no room for all of Maric, Jack, Ty, Derricx and Griffiths in one side.

Where do people get the idea that McDonald, a low draft pick who hasn't done a thing yet, will be starting in the side? It's like the Gourdis love fest a couple of years ago. People are putting far too much hope into nobodies!

 

[Groupie_]

When can we start the 'Richmond vs Carlton' rd 1 thread?

 

[Livonski]

I agree with you, but do you agree that for the first time in years it is impossible to pick our best 22????

Yes I do agree. A fully fit list will be the selectors nightmare...

 

[Morro]

Some weird opinions on here...

Why would Griff play CHB when his weapons are his marking and long/accurate kicking? CHF or not in the side, and probably only CHF this year if Maric fails and Ty becomes a class ruckman.

Why would Derricx play CHF when Jack and Ty are becoming the next powerhouse key forward pairing? Would put Jack, Ty, and if Ty isn't there Griffiths above him. There's no room for all of Maric, Jack, Ty, Derricx and Griffiths in one side.

Where do people get the idea that McDonald, a low draft pick who hasn't done a thing yet, will be starting in the side? It's like the Gourdis love fest a couple of years ago. People are putting far too much hope into nobodies!

I am guessing this was some what aimed at me???

If you care to read my post, you will note that I was not suggesting for one minute that the side I posted would actually be selected, I was merely demonstrating the plethora of variables to our best 22 for the first time in years.

 

[lesrythmes]

I am guessing this was some what aimed at me???

If you care to read my post, you will note that I was not suggesting for one minute that the side I posted would actually be selected, I was merely demonstrating the plethora of variables to our best 22 for the first time in years.

Nah mate, no one in particular, multiple people have mentioned Griff moving to CHB and want Derricx in the side. I just don't see why the Griff move would benefit us? Has the potential to be a league-topping CHF if he gets fit. If Maric doesn't work out it also frees up Ty going into the ruck, win-win!

 

[Livonski]

Some weird opinions on here...

Why would Griff play CHB when his weapons are his marking and long/accurate kicking? CHF or not in the side, and probably only CHF this year if Maric fails and Ty becomes a class ruckman.

Why would Derricx play CHF when Jack and Ty are becoming the next powerhouse key forward pairing? Would put Jack, Ty, and if Ty isn't there Griffiths above him. There's no room for all of Maric, Jack, Ty, Derricx and Griffiths in one side.

Where do people get the idea that McDonald, a low draft pick who hasn't done a thing yet, will be starting in the side? It's like the Gourdis love fest a couple of years ago. People are putting far too much hope into nobodies!

You're right on his weapons. His deficiency is he can't get the pill. Runs to the wrong spots...headless chook.
He can use his weapons at chb but can get to the pill via his opponent. Worst case scenario is he shuts down a key forward and builds confidence. imo it's getting to the point where we can't let him waste time learning chf when we need a strong contest there, hence the Miller idea.

He may end up at chf but I reckon his short term output could be much better than at chb. And as you rightly point out JR and Ty are the power forwards...Griff could be nuisance value (again) if played there also.

 

[Morro]

Nah mate, no one in particular, multiple people have mentioned Griff moving to CHB and want Derricx in the side. I just don't see why the Griff move would benefit us? Has the potential to be a league-topping CHF if he gets fit. If Maric doesn't work out it also frees up Ty going into the ruck, win-win!

Cheers mate.

For what its worth, I am against Griff to CHB but I can see the attraction.

DRex is an interesting one, I saw enough in the NAB last year to convince me he could make the grade with a bit of luck. I think the love for him is due to his agression, and we need more of this type.

 

[lesrythmes]

Fair enough, I just don't see him being quick enough with his feet and fists at his size to blanket power forwards. Even if he can't lead yet standing at 198cm he will tower over almost any key back in marking contests. Very content with Rance and Grimes to lead our backline with Astbury/Post/McGuane/Moore fighting to be third tall.

 

[FootyIcon4]

Some weird opinions on here...

Why would Griff play CHB when his weapons are his marking and long/accurate kicking? CHF or not in the side, and probably only CHF this year if Maric fails and Ty becomes a class ruckman.

Why would Derricx play CHF when Jack and Ty are becoming the next powerhouse key forward pairing? Would put Jack, Ty, and if Ty isn't there Griffiths above him. There's no room for all of Maric, Jack, Ty, Derricx and Griffiths in one side.

They sound like the same weapons Reid had when Collingwood shifted him. Personally I see him making an impact whichever end he plays at

There is room for all of those 5 big men as well as Rance and Grimes:
Jack at FF, Ty at CHF, Derrickx as resting ruchman, Maric in ruck and Griffiths as CHB

You're right on his weapons. His deficiency is he can't get the pill. Runs to the wrong spots...headless chook.
He can use his weapons at chb but can get to the pill via his opponent. Worst case scenario is he shuts down a key forward and builds confidence. imo it's getting to the point where we can't let him waste time learning chf when we need a strong contest there, hence the Miller idea.

He may end up at chf but I reckon his short term output could be much better than at chb. And as you rightly point out JR and Ty are the power forwards...Griff could be nuisance value (again) if played there also.

When the ball hits the ground I agree, but when on a lead he is nearly unstoppable. I saw him play for a few years before he was drafted and can say this with confidence.

 

[FootyIcon4]

Fair enough, I just don't see him being quick enough with his feet and fists at his size to blanket power forwards. Even if he can't lead yet standing at 198cm he will tower over almost any key back in marking contests. Very content with Rance and Grimes to lead our backline with Astbury/Post/McGuane/Moore fighting to be third tall.

Griff would challenge Stanley from St. Kilda for the fastest KPP award. Speed definitely not a problem

 

[santa claws]

Nah mate, no one in particular, multiple people have mentioned Griff moving to CHB and want Derricx in the side. I just don't see why the Griff move would benefit us? Has the potential to be a league-topping CHF if he gets fit. If Maric doesn't work out it also frees up Ty going into the ruck, win-win!

i dont get the hes a chf. to me hes always been a ff.
his strengths are his pace and his leading.
long term the set up should be if griffiths does make it

F/ ***** - griffiths - vickery
HF/ ***** - riewoldt - *****

vickery is the most promising RUCKMAN we have on our list. it is imperative that he starts to spend reasonable time in the ruck as a forward ruckman.40% ruck 60% forward please.
i know jack has performed well as a ff but his real value to the TEAM is at chf.

 

[_RT_]

i dont get the hes a chf. to me hes always been a ff.
his strengths are his pace and his leading.
long term the set up should be if griffiths does make it

F/ ***** - griffiths - vickery
HF/ ***** - riewoldt - *****

vickery is the most promising RUCKMAN we have on our list. it is imperative that he starts to spend reasonable time in the ruck as a forward ruckman.40% ruck 60% forward please.
i know jack has performed well as a ff but his real value to the TEAM is at chf.

This is the exact reason why we should steer clear of Fevola.

 

[fargothegreat]

i dont get the hes a chf. to me hes always been a ff.
his strengths are his pace and his leading.
long term the set up should be if griffiths does make it

F/ ***** - griffiths - vickery
HF/ ***** - riewoldt - *****

vickery is the most promising RUCKMAN we have on our list. it is imperative that he starts to spend reasonable time in the ruck as a forward ruckman.40% ruck 60% forward please.
i know jack has performed well as a ff but his real value to the TEAM is at chf.

My concern is that our forward line won't have room for 3 big key forwards like that. They would get in each other's way. We need to find a third tall like Jack Gunston etc or have someone like Astbury rotating between forward and back, but not being in there all the time.

 

[ize_]

It works for Collingwood and Geelong. Riewoldt's the Hawkins/Cloke, Griff is the Pos/Dawes, Vickery is the Brown/West who goes into the ruck from time to time.

 

[Rustof]

Well we have Jack/Miller/Vicks in our forward line ATM and it seems to work pretty well.

 

[Spluff]

Griff would challenge Stanley from St. Kilda for the fastest KPP award. Speed definitely not a problem

Categorically incorrect. On our list alone, Vickery is a faster forward. In the backs, Gourdis, Grimes, McGuane are all faster. Rance probably around the same speed.

 

[lesrythmes]

Even if he can build up some good speed, I can't see a 200cm bloke chasing down the quicker key forwards on the burst regularly. Would be more beneficial making a lead than chasing one.

 

[santa claws]

This is the exact reason why we should steer clear of Fevola.

with everyone re signed we are not likely to take any mature players.
we have just 15, 26, and one of 55/psd.
the only option we now have to find more space on the list proper is put newman to the vet list or delist a contracted player. i dont think either are likely.to me this is a disappointing scenario shallow draft or not.

as stated on the other thread id have no problem taking fev if i was pretty sure he was over his demons and he could get back to good form. that is the risk i suppose. if clubs were sure about these things i suppose he would have long been snaffled up by now.

me i look at it differently to most.
i think jack should play chf.
i think vickery should be spending significantly more time in the ruck with the long term goal he becomes the #1 ruckman at the club. this is not to say he cant spend significant time forward.
i think griffiths in the long term a ff.
to me fev would be cover for griffiths in fact most of 2012 id play griffiths at coburg if possible.just getting senior games into him and playing lots of footy. and if fev was at the club and in form at ff.if griffiths does enough to force fev out so be it.
it also means we have astbury as cover for jack at chf.

im into building depth in these areas and as such id like another two kpfs on the list. if we get lucky and they turn out decent we keep the better ones and trade out the others for decent picks. if there is always very good kids coming thru we create real competition for spots on the list. besides you can never have enough kpp.

 

[FootyIcon4]

Categorically incorrect. On our list alone, Vickery is a faster forward. In the backs, Gourdis, Grimes, McGuane are all faster. Rance probably around the same speed.

Based on what? Do you have their sprint times?

 

[Livonski]

with everyone re signed we are not likely to take any mature players.
we have just 15, 26, and one of 55/psd.
the only option we now have to find more space on the list proper is put newman to the vet list or delist a contracted player. i dont think either are likely.to me this is a disappointing scenario shallow draft or not.

as stated on the other thread id have no problem taking fev if i was pretty sure he was over his demons and he could get back to good form. that is the risk i suppose. if clubs were sure about these things i suppose he would have long been snaffled up by now.

me i look at it differently to most.
i think jack should play chf.
i think vickery should be spending significantly more time in the ruck with the long term goal he becomes the #1 ruckman at the club. this is not to say he cant spend significant time forward.
i think griffiths in the long term a ff.
to me fev would be cover for griffiths in fact most of 2012 id play griffiths at coburg if possible.just getting senior games into him and playing lots of footy. and if fev was at the club and in form at ff.if griffiths does enough to force fev out so be it.
it also means we have astbury as cover for jack at chf.

im into building depth in these areas and as such id like another two kpfs on the list. if we get lucky and they turn out decent we keep the better ones and trade out the others for decent picks. if there is always very good kids coming thru we create real competition for spots on the list. besides you can never have enough kpp.

Yes you do look at it differently and I quite like reading your stuff. But...and there always is a "but" when thinking about your opinions, your fev view is just so diammetrically opposed to the new Richmond culture. I thought the fev thread was really just a gag and a few knuckleheads fell for it. I expected more from you.
Having said that I agree with your JR to chf idea, he could be anything out there, sure hands, beautiful kick, good thinker...only issue would be motor and defensive side (easy enough fix). And Griff could be ff long term. But I also think Griff needs to be cranked up a bit and made to develop a bit quicker. He's a high draft pick and we still don't know if his body will hold together. I reckon it's got to be tested in the big league rather than another coburg year before he breaks down again. chb for a while might be the answer to give him a feel for the pace of the game.
And the best way to wreck Vickery would be to ruck him more. Rucks are battering rams and end up playing short careers.
He's emerging as a power forward, impossible to match up on for height, speed and agility. And can finish. I'd hate to see him do a knee in a ruck contest that means bugger all.
And depth? The holy grail. Love to have afl quality running around at Coburg but it's a pipe dream. In terms of kpf's we've got JR and TV with depth from Griff, Astbury, Miller, Derickx, Post...there's 5, not all top liners but no one else has real depth either.
Just my 2c response to your thought provoking post.

 

[_RT_]

with everyone re signed we are not likely to take any mature players.
we have just 15, 26, and one of 55/psd.
the only option we now have to find more space on the list proper is put newman to the vet list or delist a contracted player. i dont think either are likely.to me this is a disappointing scenario shallow draft or not.

as stated on the other thread id have no problem taking fev if i was pretty sure he was over his demons and he could get back to good form. that is the risk i suppose. if clubs were sure about these things i suppose he would have long been snaffled up by now.

me i look at it differently to most.
i think jack should play chf.
i think vickery should be spending significantly more time in the ruck with the long term goal he becomes the #1 ruckman at the club. this is not to say he cant spend significant time forward.
i think griffiths in the long term a ff.
to me fev would be cover for griffiths in fact most of 2012 id play griffiths at coburg if possible.just getting senior games into him and playing lots of footy. and if fev was at the club and in form at ff.if griffiths does enough to force fev out so be it.
it also means we have astbury as cover for jack at chf.

im into building depth in these areas and as such id like another two kpfs on the list. if we get lucky and they turn out decent we keep the better ones and trade out the others for decent picks. if there is always very good kids coming thru we create real competition for spots on the list. besides you can never have enough kpp.

Nowadays it doesn't really matter where players are named on the teamsheet. With the amount of rotation that goes on we're bound to see these guys spending time in those positions. In fact during last year I saw Griffiths Vickery Riewoldt Post Miller & even Graham rotate through FF, CHF & FP when spending time in the forward line.

As much as we all thought that Vickery was the answer to our quest for a ruckman, I reckon Hardwick has realised that he is of more value to us as a tall forward who can provide relief in the ruck, which allows a genuine ruckman to carry the load. For that reason I don't think we'll see Vickery spending anymore than 25% of gametime on the ball unless there is an early injury to Maric/Graham/Browne. FWIW I also believe that we're going to see Derickx being developed alongside Vickery as another ruck/forward option. To me that is more than enough for now in terms of KPF depth.

At the other end of the ground I don't think we're in as bad a shape as some think. We've got Rance Astbury Grimes Post McGuane and at a stretch Moore who can play as KPD. For that reason I wouldn't be going after a KPD in the ND unless one slides to 55 that we can't resist. For mine I would be looking to the rookie draft and loading up on 3-5 KPPs that we can take a year or 2 developing/evaluating to start finding the next group to come in and replace McGuane Miller and Moore over the next 12-24 months.

 

[The Chiefton]

B: Bachar Houli Kelvin Moore David Astbury
HB: Chris Newman Alex Rance Brett Deledio
C: Shaun Grigg Trent Cotchin Reece Conca
HF: Robin Nahas Jack Riewoldt Dustin Martin
F: Jake King Tyrone Vickery Brad Miller
R: Ivan Maric Shane Tuck Nathan Foley
I: Steve Morris Dylan Grimes Jake Batchelor Shane Edwards

E: Matt White Brad Helbig Andrew Browne

 

[tugga]

B: Bachar Houli Kelvin Moore David Astbury
HB: Chris Newman Alex Rance Brett Deledio
C: Shaun Grigg Trent Cotchin Reece Conca
HF: Robin Nahas Jack Riewoldt Dustin Martin
F: Jake King Tyrone Vickery Brad Miller
R: Ivan Maric Shane Tuck Nathan Foley
I: Steve Morris Dylan Grimes Jake Batchelor Shane Edwards

E: Matt White Brad Helbig Andrew Browne

Would be rapt if Moore could make it back Chiefton.

 

[Wrenny]

A fit connors is in the best 25 but overall good effort

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

I don't really see a team with Derrickx, Vickery and Maric (let alone Griffiths) all in the side. I'd want Griff at half forward because he does have a very long kick and from my (admittedly limited) time watching him he seems pretty agile when moving up the ground. I like Vickery as FF with his height and allows Jack to be Jack. Our forwards should look something like this

Riewoldt (permanent)
Vickery (70% at FF)
Griffiths (replaced by Miller until ready)
King or Nahas at HF
Cotchin/Martin resting HF or FP
would also like to see Connors have another crack at HF
Probably still need another quality crumber to balance the forward line as Edwards doesn't cut it for mine. At the end of the day it's probably our strongest area so I'm sure they'll work it out.