Richmond 2012

[WWSD]

Team:

B K.Moore A.Rance S.Morris
HB C.Newman L.McGuane B.Houli
C D.Jackson T.Cotchin D.Martin
HF S.Grigg B.Miller B.Deledio
F J.King J.Riewoldt R.Nahas
R I.Maric S.Tuck F.Foley

INT J.Batchelor D.Grimes T.Vickory M.White (Sub)

EMG R.Conca D.Gourdis T.Derrickx

2012 Finish: 10th-12th
Most Improved: Dylan Grimes/David Gourdis
B & F: Brett Deledio

 

[MR]

Team:

B K.Moore A.Rance S.Morris
HB C.Newman L.McGuane B.Houli
C D.Jackson T.Cotchin D.Martin
HF S.Grigg B.Miller B.Deledio
F J.King J.Riewoldt R.Nahas
R I.Maric S.Tuck N.Foley

INT J.Batchelor D.Grimes T.Vickory M.White (Sub)

EMG R.Conca D.Gourdis T.Derrickx

2012 Finish: 10th-12th
Most Improved: Dylan Grimes/David Gourdis
B & F: Brett Deledio

Coming from an opposition supporter who probably knows our list only from the tip of the iceberg, it's not a bad effort.

Starting from the backline, McGuane will never get a senior game. Yes, it is possible if all of our back men are injured but highly unlikely. He would be replaced with Astbury/Post. Moore is most likely not to get a game either, not due to skill but due to his body concerns. He is to be replaced by Grimes.

I think that Houli will be pushed up to HFF, his replacement being Batchelor.

Deledio to swap with Tuck and Tuck's spot to be taken by Houli, resulting Tuck to the bench.
There is no way that Conca will be a EMG either. Put him on the wing, take out Jackson.

Miller is not likely to get a game either, he was kind of a stop-gap player for 2011. CHF to be taken by Vickery. We are going to swap Grigg with Nahas and then replace Grigg with Griffiths. Grigg on the bench now.

On the bench, we have Grigg and Tuck. We are going to cut Grigg or Tuck with Jackson, add Matt Dea and make Helbig or Edwards the sub.

That would be my feedback.

 

[FootyIcon4]

Also Conca is starting every game he is healthy and available for

 

[peterbuch74]

Also Conca is starting every game he is healthy and available for

Couldn't agree more... Watched back the 3rd quarter against the Pies where we came back from 50 points down to get within 4 goals recently, and watching the backline run from Conca and the spoiling from Grimes was making me really looking forward to them slotting back in next season.

We really missed those 2 in the back half of this season IMO.

If you get a chance look up that quarter on the AFL website and see what we're capable of... gives a little glimpse of what we're trying to achieve. Deledio was playing a little further up the field, Rance and Grimes were patrolling down back, Jack and TV were controlling up forward... and the run through the middle was awesome.

Looking forward to more of this!

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

I see the HFF as a more pressing issue than our HBF... we have about 6 or 7 rebounding defender type players and can easily invent another if need be. One of the hardest positions to play on the field is as a small-mid fwd and we are not blessed with many. King will be 28 next season and Nahas is building a tank to see more midfield minutes. Whilst it is true that we need good users/decision makers down back I think Newman and Houli can help the kids out. Deledio will play his best footy when he has a license to thrill. Will quickly assert himself as Richmonds best player again if given more time up forward and on the ball.

Time to try to win games... not just try to not lose them! I cant forget that game that Lids kicked 5 against the pies all those years ago. GUN

While I certainly agree that the HFF is our a big hole I don't think Deledio is the man to fill it. You need your best kickers either setting up the attack from half back or getting the clearances through the middle IMO. I think Connors could be the sort of player who could put his hand up for that role. It's time we stopped persisting with hacks like Edwards who have poor skills and hardly get near it. Maybe Jackson could play more half forward in 2012 as I don't see him in our midfield and this would be his only hope to stay in the team.

 

[FootyIcon4]

I watched the 1st quarter of the Rd1 game against Carlton and we had so many opportunities to score but Jackson, Grigg or Edwards would always just bomb it high to a contest instead of honouring a lead which lead to turnovers (kept on putting it on Jack's head instead of in front of him)

These three undo all the hard work of the backmen like Deledio and Newman as they send the ball straight back to them.

I say treat them like ruckman and have a player ready to recieve the handpass if we can't get them out of the 22

 

[_RT_]

B: Dylan Grimes 20 193cm 87kg 8 games Alex Rance 22 194cm 93kg 44 games Steven Morris 22 185cm 84kg 0 games/Matt Dea 20 186cm 84kg 7 games

HB: Jake Batchelor 19 188cm 78kg 16 games Jayden Post 21 195cm 93kg 22 games/David Astbury 20 195cm 92kg 22 games Chris Newman 29 183cm 82kg 192 games

C: Brett Deledio 24 188cm 88 kg 150 games Trent Cotchin 21 185cm 83kg 61 games Reece Conca 19 185cm 78kg 17 games

HF: Shaun Grigg 23 190cm 84kg 64 games Tyrone Vickery 21 200cm 95kg 45 games Bachar Houli 23 180cm 82kg 48 games

F: Ben Griffiths 20 198cm 99kg 9 games Jack Riewoldt 23 195cm 93kg 90 games Robin Nahas 23 176cm 70kg 55 games

R: Ivan Maric 25 200cm 102kg 77 games Dustin Martin 20 187cm 86kg 43 games Nathan Foley 26 178cm 80kg 110 games

INT: Brad Helbig 19 185cm 77kg 10 games Steven Morris 22 185cm 84kg 0 games/Matt Dea 20 186cm 84kg 7 games Shane Edwards 23 182cm 78kg 89 games

SUB: Daniel Jackson 25 188cm 91kg 104 games

EMG: Daniel Connors 23 186cm 84kg 27 games Jayden Post 21 195cm 93kg 22 games/David Astbury 20 195cm 92kg 22 games Draft Pick 15 or 26.

Running through the team here are my reasons for how I picked the team.

Backline:
Like the back 7 named here. Provide a good mix of accountability, rebound skill and decision making. Plenty of size as well. Unsure who to go with out of Dea/Morris starting on the ground which is why both are named. Same goes for Astbury/Post at CHB. The difference with those 2 is one would play and the other would miss out. At this stage I'm leaning towards Post as it would appear as this year is a make or break year for him. Batchelor and Newman pick themselves as far as I'm concerned.

Midfield:
Looking at the 5 starting midfielders it makes the mouth water. Plenty of talent going around that should have the forwards licking their licks in anticipation. Below that the quality drops away a little but when you're developing a list that is to be expected as the kids come through. Still there is enough to work with. The key for us is to get the rotations right so that you can end up with some of the truly classy players working alongside the kids. Maric, while not an AA contender should give us more that what we have had from Graham/Browne over the last couple of seasons, which should assist in the midfielders getting their hands on the ball first more often.

Forwards:
Riewoldt picks himself. I've opted for go with Vickery at CHF as I was impressed with his work as a forward in the second half of last season. Can take a decent grab, it pretty good when the ball hits the ground as well. I've gone with Griffiths in the pocket to ease him into his 3rd season. By seasons end I would like to see him push up and take over at CHF. Around these 3 I've opted for Houli Grigg and Nahas as the mid sized forwards as all of them have shown that they push up into the midfield as well.

Bench:
Gone with 3 midsized options. Obviously Dea/Morris are the rotation for the backline. Helbig and Edwards are the rotations for the midfield/forwards. I've opted for Jackson being the sub at this stage but that could change depending on how the draft goes. The emergencies could also change as well depenging on the draft but at this stage the 3 I have gone with are the best options.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

Whats with everyone putting houli at HFF. Thats where he started last year and looked lost and people wanted him dropped or next to be, then he moved to HBF and ended up finshing top 5 in the bnf.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Whats with everyone putting houli at HFF. Thats where he started last year and looked lost and people wanted him dropped or next to be, then he moved to HBF and ended up finshing top 5 in the bnf.

He was just finding his feet at his new club in the early rounds

 

[Tiger Titus]

Whats with everyone putting houli at HFF. Thats where he started last year and looked lost and people wanted him dropped or next to be, then he moved to HBF and ended up finshing top 5 in the bnf.

I actually want to see Houli on the wing, he's a beautiful kick into the f50 but can get caught out defensively and sometimes folds under the pressure in the defensive 50.

The way the game is played these days the flankers often push up and act as extra mids in the middle of the ground anyway, so it's probably much of a muchness.

 

[_RT_]

Whats with everyone putting houli at HFF. Thats where he started last year and looked lost and people wanted him dropped or next to be, then he moved to HBF and ended up finshing top 5 in the bnf.

I put him there as I see him as being part of the midfield rotation.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

IMO Houli isn't good enough in traffic to play any further up the ground than Half Back , hope I get proven wrong !
There needs to be a huge emphasis on giving our on ballers Cotchin, Martin and Foley room to move and break clear , I'm not sold on Conca and Lids been used on a wing , IMO they'll get drawn to contests and limit the space our gun clearance players have to room , I also can't see Conca or Lids chipping off taggers , scragging Cotchin or Martin .
I'd been keen to see Lids play as a lead up forward who rotates through the midfield , I still think Conca should be used down back till he finds his feet , very very few kids can come in and go straight into the midfield , and I don't think he is one of them , we've been spoilt with Martin and Cotchin .
Pending on where JR8 plays but I wouldn't be against Newman on 1 wing and someone like White playing a tagging role on the other !

 

[_RT_]

IMO Houli isn't good enough in traffic to play any further up the ground than Half Back , hope I get proven wrong !
There needs to be a huge emphasis on giving our on ballers Cotchin, Martin and Foley room to move and break clear , I'm not sold on Conca and Lids been used on a wing , IMO they'll get drawn to contests and limit the space our gun clearance players have to room , I also can't see Conca or Lids chipping off taggers , scragging Cotchin or Martin .
I'd been keen to see Lids play as a lead up forward who rotates through the midfield , I still think Conca should be used down back till he finds his feet , very very few kids can come in and go straight into the midfield , and I don't think he is one of them , we've been spoilt with Martin and Cotchin .
Pending on where JR8 plays but I wouldn't be against Newman on 1 wing and someone like White playing a tagging role on the other !

In my lineup Houli wouldn't necessarily be playing as a centre square midfielder. I see no problem with him playing as a linking winger who pushes into the backline to give them a chop out and then get on his bike and provide an option on the way out. Not much difference between that sort of role and playing across half back like he ended the 2011 season.

IMO Cotchin Martin & Foley need players with good skills on the outside who can finish off their hard work in winning clearances/hardballs. I also think that with these quality ball users on the outside it will stop opposition sides from simply focusing on shutting down the likes of Cotchin & Martin like they do now.

Finally there is nothing stopping Lids pushing to a HFF when he needs a break, with Grigg Houli Edwards and even Helbig in the lineup there are options available. In fact with the lineup I put up there is plenty of flexibility. For example Deledio Conca Grigg and Houli could just as easily slide to the backline to cover an injury or change things up if someone is having a bad day.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

In my lineup Houli wouldn't necessarily be playing as a centre square midfielder. I see no problem with him playing as a linking winger who pushes into the backline to give them a chop out and then get on his bike and provide an option on the way out. Not much difference between that sort of role and playing across half back like he ended the 2011 season.

IMO Cotchin Martin & Foley need players with good skills on the outside who can finish off their hard work in winning clearances/hardballs. I also think that with these quality ball users on the outside it will stop opposition sides from simply focusing on shutting down the likes of Cotchin & Martin like they do now.

Finally there is nothing stopping Lids pushing to a HFF when he needs a break, with Grigg Houli Edwards and even Helbig in the lineup there are options available. In fact with the lineup I put up there is plenty of flexibility. For example Deledio Conca Grigg and Houli could just as easily slide to the backline to cover an injury or change things up if someone is having a bad day.

Houli struggles when up the ground , off half back he can run forward when we have the Footy and he does it very well , as a mid or half forward he tends to get caught out by being forward of 50/50 contests and doesn't pocess eccessive speed nor endurance, to break from contests .
Lids on the other hand does , however to maintain some grunt and class depth around the Midfield and as a medium forward , I think he should be played rotating as a on-baller . He was tried as a outside type wingman in the early 2010 and looked lost .
We got exposed badly last year when Dusty an Cotch weren't on the ball and we where forced to play guys like , Edwards , Conca and Nahas as on ballers .
Helbig I think presents as another who could rotate throughout the mid/ forward set-up , I actually think he may be a better option already than Houli in a midfield , on ballet or wing option than Houli ?

 

[theflea]

IMO Houli isn't good enough in traffic to play any further up the ground than Half Back , hope I get proven wrong !
There needs to be a huge emphasis on giving our on ballers Cotchin, Martin and Foley room to move and break clear , I'm not sold on Conca and Lids been used on a wing , IMO they'll get drawn to contests and limit the space our gun clearance players have to room , I also can't see Conca or Lids chipping off taggers , scragging Cotchin or Martin .
I'd been keen to see Lids play as a lead up forward who rotates through the midfield , I still think Conca should be used down back till he finds his feet , very very few kids can come in and go straight into the midfield , and I don't think he is one of them , we've been spoilt with Martin and Cotchin .
Pending on where JR8 plays but I wouldn't be against Newman on 1 wing and someone like White playing a tagging role on the other !

in todays modern press footy there is has never been more traffic than at half back, so imo thats bollocks!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

in todays modern press footy there is has never been more traffic than at half back, so imo thats bollocks!

Do you consider Houli as a player who receives the Footy in space or the type who breaks from traffic ?

 

[_RT_]

Houli struggles when up the ground , off half back he can run forward when we have the Footy and he does it very well , as a mid or half forward he tends to get caught out by being forward of 50/50 contests and doesn't pocess eccessive speed nor endurance, to break from contests .
Lids on the other hand does , however to maintain some grunt and class depth around the Midfield and as a medium forward , I think he should be played rotating as a on-baller . He was tried as a outside type wingman in the early 2010 and looked lost .
We got exposed badly last year when Dusty an Cotch weren't on the ball and we where forced to play guys like , Edwards , Conca and Nahas as on ballers .
Helbig I think presents as another who could rotate throughout the mid/ forward set-up , I actually think he may be a better option already than Houli in a midfield , on ballet or wing option than Houli ?

If Houli struggles in traffic then half back is the worse place for him to play. Back there he has to be accountable for an opponent, then when he has the ball he has to be able to work his way through the press to then pick out an option. We all saw in the second half of the year that he can not only be accountable for an opponent but he was very good at getting the ball in the open and then picking his way through to more often than not hit up an option that was of benefit to the side.

He has also shown that he doesn't need to have elite speed to hurt the opposition, he can get out in space and uses his kicking ability to great effect. Even late in games he is often charging out of the backline providing an option. That shows me he has plenty of endurance and lets not forget that during last preseason he finished 1st or 2nd in our time trials around the Tan. You don't do that without having a very good motor.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

If Houli struggles in traffic then half back is the worse place for him to play. Back there he has to be accountable for an opponent, then when he has the ball he has to be able to work his way through the press to then pick out an option. We all saw in the second half of the year that he can not only be accountable for an opponent but he was very good at getting the ball in the open and then picking his way through to more often than not hit up an option that was of benefit to the side.

He has also shown that he doesn't need to have elite speed to hurt the opposition, he can get out in space and uses his kicking ability to great effect. Even late in games he is often charging out of the backline providing an option. That shows me he has plenty of endurance and lets not forget that during last preseason he finished 1st or 2nd in our time trials around the Tan. You don't do that without having a very good motor.

A pre season time trial means stuff all , other than the fact he was in good physical shape at that time of the year compared to the others he competed against, iirc alot of our midfielders didn't run that particular tan time trial whilst Dusty was well out of shape . He does not weave through traffic , he is very one sided , which makes him easy to counteract when in traffic , in open space running forward of the contest he is elite no doubt about that , and that's why he was damaging in the later half of the season !
I viewed him very closely in 2010 and seen him play quite alot and was amazed when we picked him up with the speculation he was to play midfield / forward , the start of last year confirmed my thoughts . In 2010 he was exposed often at VFL in congestion , not hacking heavily on the bloke but he does struggle more up the ground !

 

[theflea]

Do you consider Houli as a player who receives the Footy in space or the type who breaks from traffic ?

from what i saw he could do both, but we may be talking about different aspects here.

 

[FootyIcon4]

In most games in 2011 the HB lines were where most of the contested situations were, with the midfielders and HF finding space to hurt in transition.

Several times last season Richmond played a HF or two on the wing to free up the forward line and give more rebound out of defense (St. Kilda game for one)
If Houli played as one of these wingers he could be the first option for the players getting the ball out of the contested situation that occurs on HB and he could finally provide a decent forward entry

 

[Morro]

I am most excited about the "what if's" in 2012 regarding our best 22 and even their best position.

I believe we will have quite a few suprises next season.

Just some obscure ideas being bandied about,

DRex at CHF
Griff at CHB
Morris certain 22
Is Helbig our HFF mid rotation we need
Lids to the midfield
JMac fit enough to play 1's
is Moore back
Houli released to a wing
Will posty lock down CHB
Will Astbury move to CHF

The variables next season just seem so much more than in the past when we pretty much knew our best 22 and where they would play.

Am I alone here?

I mean noone would be suprised if our 22 looked this i rd 1,

Morris Rance Grimes
Moore Griff Newman
Houli Cotch Conca
Helbig DRex Jack
Nahas Ty JMac

Maric Lids Dusty

King Batch Post *Edwards
Now I know that woulnt happen but has our team ever been harder to pick???

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Not sure exactly how it will all pan out, but I just cannot see both Lids and Houli being moved out of the back line at the same time. That would surely set us back 18 months.

No matter what people expect from guys like Batchelor, Dea and Morris, to move both of those guys away from the HBF would leave us high and dry.

Maybe in twelve months or so, but I can't see it happening this year. Maybe one, but not both.

 

[deledio7]

I'm with you DD. Every year we have posters call for Deledio to be moved in the midfield, but our defense can't endure it.

 

[Livonski]

I am most excited about the "what if's" in 2012 regarding our best 22 and even their best position.

I believe we will have quite a few suprises next season.

Just some obscure ideas being bandied about,

DRex at CHF
Griff at CHB
Morris certain 22
Is Helbig our HFF mid rotation we need
Lids to the midfield
JMac fit enough to play 1's
is Moore back
Houli released to a wing
Will posty lock down CHB
Will Astbury move to CHF

The variables next season just seem so much more than in the past when we pretty much knew our best 22 and where they would play.

Am I alone here?

I mean noone would be suprised if our 22 looked this i rd 1,

Morris Rance Grimes
Moore Griff Newman
Houli Cotch Conca
Helbig DRex Jack
Nahas Ty JMac

Maric Lids Dusty

King Batch Post *Edwards
Now I know that woulnt happen but has our team ever been harder to pick???

Like the way you think but I'd fall off my chair if DRex was the starting CHF, JMac or even Kel were in the side. You might be right but it's far too speculative at this stage. Love Griff at CHB, Morris looks ready made.
Astbury should a KPP either forward or back. Jacko should be in if his head's back on and body ok (and he's in the m'ship drive video).
Actually notice McGuane in video too...wtf

 

[Morro]

Like the way you think but I'd fall off my chair if DRex was the starting CHF, JMac or even Kel were in the side. You might be right but it's far too speculative at this stage. Love Griff at CHB, Morris looks ready made.
Astbury should a KPP either forward or back. Jacko should be in if his head's back on and body ok (and he's in the m'ship drive video).
Actually notice McGuane in video too...wtf

I agree with you, but do you agree that for the first time in years it is impossible to pick our best 22????