Richmond 2012

[santa claws]

List breakdown as at 1/11/11.

Rucks:
Andrew Browne 21 203cm 105kg 12 games - quality zilch proven zilch.
Angus Graham 24 201cm 102kg 47 games we went and got maric to replace
Tom Derickx 23 201cm 99kg 0 games graham what have they done
Ivan Maric 25 200cm 102kg 77 games again.

Tall Forwards:
Tyrone Vickery 21 200cm 95kg 45 games - will spend 30-40% of time in ruck
Ben Griffiths 20 198cm 99kg 9 games - lol most overhyped player in the afl
Jack Riewoldt 23 195cm 93kg 90 games - oh at last some quality.
Brad Miller 28 194cm 96kg 147 games - isnt he an ordinary mature rookie.

Tall Defenders:
Alex Rance 22 194cm 93kg 44 games - the favorite on here c grade at best
David Gourdis 22 193cm 91kg 4 games - on his last chance. likely fail.
Dylan Grimes 20 193cm 87kg 8 games - 2nd yr skinny kid coming off injury
Luke McGuane 24 192cm 91kg 84 games - put simply dud.

Tall Utilities: forward/back
Jayden Post 21 195cm 93kg 22 games - make or break yr.
David Astbury 20 195cm 92kg 22 games - done more than griffiths 2nd yr
player are we expecting 2nd yr players to dominate.

Medium/Small Forwards:
Dean MacDonald 19 184cm 87kg 0 games - will do well to play all yr at coburg seniors
Robin Nahas 23 176cm 70kg 55 games - shit forward c grade mid.
Jake King 27 178cm 80kg 75 games - average at best.
Brad Helbig 19 185cm 77kg 10 games - 2nd yr player and likely in best 22
Matt White 24 180cm 82kg 82 games - sheesh dud.

Medium/Small Defenders:
Kelvin Moore 27 190cm 90kg 84 games - 8 ops likely gone.
Jake Batchelor 19 188cm 78kg 16 games - 2nd yr player
Chris Newman 29 183cm 82kg 192 games - c grader and slowing down.
Steven Morris 22 185cm 84kg 0 games - 22 yr old first yr player
Matt Dea 20 186cm 84kg 7 games - development player
Jeromey Webberley 23 182cm 78kg 15 games - dud

Midfielders:
Daniel Connors 23 186cm 84kg 27 games - dud
Brett Deledio 24 188cm 88 kg 150 games - a grader
Shane Edwards 23 182cm 78kg 89 games - dud
Nathan Foley 26 178cm 80kg 110 games - c grader.
Reece Conca 19 185cm 78kg 17 games - development
Daniel Jackson 25 188cm 91kg 104 games - dud
Shane Tuck 29 189cm 92kg 140 games - c grader with role to play
Bachar Houli 23 180cm 82kg 48 games - c grader maybe.
Trent Cotchin 21 185cm 83kg 61 games - future a grader.
Dustin Martin 20 187cm 86kg 43 games - future a grader.
Shaun Grigg 23 190cm 84kg 64 games - c grader at best


Looking at the list like that its not that bad for depth. There is plenty of cover in each position albeit not that highly skilled in some cases, but its still there. That is why we need to ensure that come draft night we pretty much nail it.

yep cop a few injuries and all hell will break loose. depth what depth we struggle to field a competetive side to start with.

 

[Dr Awkward]

Surely Moore qualifies as a tall defender.

 

[_RT_]

yep cop a few injuries and all hell will break loose. depth what depth we struggle to field a competetive side to start with.

And you wonder why posters refer to you as being the most overly negative poster on this board. No team has a list filled with 22 AA and another 10 that could be if given the chance. Like every other team we need to find the right supporting cast that allows our stars to shine, rather than what we have had in recent years where our stars have had to also do the bulk of the grunt work as well.

Surely Moore qualifies as a tall defender.

In the past he did because there wasn't much else. Now that we do have options he can revert back to the role he should have been playing all along.

 

[El Tigre]

We're very thin on depth, especially on the midfield. Cotchin or Martin go down, and we're in big trouble. Even with them in, we are lacking with the quality of support cast.
Hoping Conca can make significant improvements this year, but really he needs an additional year in the system to settle a bit.
I put Helbig in with this as well. I rate him, and hope he can develop into a strong aggressive midfielder. He has very good goal sense, which is good if resting forward, but hes going to need another couple of years.

The area of least concern (but obviously not overflowing with proven performers) is the Forward line. But we've shown that we can cover Jack.

Santa, you should have put your comments after the players in bold.
i don't disagree on your assessments, tho theres a few players i wouldn't put so harsh. Post, if he shows improvement, will be a win for him. Rance, B grade, just.
But then, how what is the split in required A B and C players to be genuine contender for a Top 4 position?

 

[Madtiger2006]

Jackson is an average kick/decision maker, no two ways about it. Tuck isn't much better, but he is twice the footballer Jackson is.

Leadership? The guy gives away silly free kicks and has issues with the tribunal. That's not leadership, just because he's been around a while doesn't mean he's a leader.

Cotchin, Newman, Foley these guys are leaders.

I don't really rate Grigg either, but would prefer him to Jackson.

Jackson does provide grunt though I'l pay you that, he just is limited in most other areas of his game. Doesn't win it as much as Tuck, his clearance work is nowhere near Tuck's either, doesn't hit the scoreboard, not great overhead, not the best user of the footy, gives away free kicks and his tagging isn't too flash either.

He's an average footballer getting a game because he's "shielding" the young guys. I would hope he plays VFL in 2012.

I'd take Jacko comfortably over Grigg and Tuck. He didn't stuff up much this year at all. Watch the games again. Jacko goes in hard. Would like to see Helbig used as a tagger soon though. We should pick up a midfielder with pick 15. Hopefully a ready made player who can come straight in. With Helbig and Conca lifting a gear next year we might have some pretty good midfield depth

 

[deledio7]

I'd take Jacko comfortably over Grigg and Tuck. He didn't stuff up much this year at all. Watch the games again. Jacko goes in hard. Would like to see Helbig used as a tagger soon though. We should pick up a midfielder with pick 15. Hopefully a ready made player who can come straight in. With Helbig and Conca lifting a gear next year we might have some pretty good midfield depth

Where do you pull these opinions from? Jackson was diabolical this year. Tuck and Grigg had far better years and that is saying something.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

Jacko needs to improve alot to become best 22 in 2012.

He was terrible in 2011. got caught way too much, poor kicking and goal kicking. and wasnt great at his main job tagging either.
bad year for jacko

tuck was way better and the guy barely played

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Jackson was average this season, let us down numerous times. Goes in hard, sometimes illogically.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Where do you pull these opinions from? Jackson was diabolical this year. Tuck and Grigg had far better years and that is saying something.

Jacko wasn't that bad at all. Maybe you imagined alot of it in your sleep. At least he goes in too. When you see Grigg in the clear running to a loose ball, watch him just allow an opponent 5m behind just slide in and get the ball out to a team mate

 

[deledio7]

Jacko wasn't that bad at all. Maybe you imagined alot of it in your sleep. At least he goes in too. When you see Grigg in the clear running to a loose ball, watch him just allow an opponent 5m behind just slide in and get the ball out to a team mate

Yeah, I guess 99% of Richmond supporters imagined it as well. He was shithouse all year. Wake up.

 

[In the Jungle]

Jacko wasn't that bad at all. Maybe you imagined alot of it in your sleep. At least he goes in too. When you see Grigg in the clear running to a loose ball, watch him just allow an opponent 5m behind just slide in and get the ball out to a team mate

On this site, you get on & have your say. Everyone has an opinion, everyone rates players differently;

Just find it hard to except that Jackson is of any value to us; Has a great motor to run however, at his age, his experience& his leadership skills are non - existing, kicked what 5 -20 odd for the year (there about's, to make a point the exact amount he kicked is not important). All of them from what l recall virtually all the times were crucial & required "someone to stand up".
Jackson failed miserably in this area. He's on field indiscretions have cost the RFC some 4 -5 games in the past 2 years. This l believe *was even mentioned by Hardwick. I dearly hope he gets a real good talking to one on one ,(from the coaching panel) because , l personally was PRAYING he would be traded. It would be great to think all this enourmous "negative" posting gets back to him , to fire him up & PROVE US WRONG.... Let us see....

 

[El Tigre]

Jacko wasn't that bad at all. Maybe you imagined alot of it in your sleep. At least he goes in too. When you see Grigg in the clear running to a loose ball, watch him just allow an opponent 5m behind just slide in and get the ball out to a team mate

Thats not the worst part of his game. Look at him instinctly look for a handball backwards, then look for a kick backwards, then look to do an up-and-under 40m kick to a contest. I think he basically lacks confidence. Which affects his ability to go hard at the ball as well. I believe there is a chance if he can gain some confidence, a number of areas of game will improve significantly. Whether that is enough to cement a spot in the best 22, well, thats debatable. At least he's better than Collins. (Had to raise that up )

 

[Madtiger2006]

Yeah, I guess 99% of Richmond supporters imagined it as well. He was shithouse all year. Wake up.

Nah you just think he's played shit cos u don't like him
Jacko was bordeline on making my 22 after 2010, he probably missed out, but I was happy with his 2011 season and he's back in. The guy had no preseason. Done well. I'm tired of Tuck doing his usual crappy mistakes. Hope he struggles to get a game

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Nah you just think he's played shit cos u don't like him
Jacko was bordeline on making my 22 after 2010, he probably missed out, but I was happy with his 2011 season and he's back in. The guy had no preseason. Done well

Did you watch round 24 against North Melbourne? Single handedly cost us the match in the last quarter.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Did you watch round 24 against North Melbourne? Single handedly cost us the match in the last quarter.

Really
What about Rance running off his man and leaving him 50m in the clear?

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Really
What about Rance running off his man and leaving him 50m in the clear?

You really think that cost us the game? Hardly Rance's fault, North kicked those kind of goals the whole match, a tactic Scott used to defeat Hardwick, it was a structural issue, not a players decision making mistake. Rance didn't run off his man, he ran to another vacant opponent. Jackson is a terrible set shot, yet got in Martin's way and ****ed up the set shot *yet again*, after unnecessarily tackling Swallow with such lack of discipline he should have been suspended for stupidity.

1. Jackson misses sitter.

2. Minutes earlier, clotheslines Swallow WWE style, goal to NM.

3. Game over.

 

[deledio7]

Nah you just think he's played shit cos u don't like him
Jacko was bordeline on making my 22 after 2010, he probably missed out, but I was happy with his 2011 season and he's back in. The guy had no preseason. Done well. I'm tired of Tuck doing his usual crappy mistakes. Hope he struggles to get a game

And I don't like him because he's shit. Start a thread or a poll and see what others think. He is shit and your complete lack of football knowledge is again clouding your judgement. Tuck had a good year. He had less mstakes than Jackson and yet had more disposals, tackles, clearances etc etc. You need to stop making up stories in your head.

 

[Madtiger2006]

And I don't like him because he's shit. Start a thread or a poll and see what others think. He is shit and your complete lack of football knowledge is again clouding your judgement. Tuck had a good year. He had less mstakes than Jackson and yet had more disposals, tackles, clearances etc etc. You need to stop making up stories in your head.

Don't agree
Have watched some replays recently and some of Tucks mistakes were pretty bad. He probably made more obvious mistakes than Jacko in 2011 and he only played about 10 games. Grigg almost made as many bad mistakes in the dreamtime game as jacko done in the whole season.

 

[Tiger Titus]

Don't agree
Have watched some replays recently and some of Tucks mistakes were pretty bad. He probably made more obvious mistakes than Jacko in 2011 and he only played about 10 games. Grigg almost made as many bad mistakes in the dreamtime game as jacko done in the whole season.

I don't really want to see Tuck in the best 22 any more either, but I can't figure out why you rate Jacko at all.

Jackson is an absolute butcher of the ball, he has no awareness or precision in him at all. His specialty is the 40-50m bomb towards our goals. Sometimes it's not even to a contest, it just lands in the oppositions lap. I wish he was soft like Grigg, because then I wouldn't have to cringe at his diabolical disposal as often each game.

I'm just praying that Helbig comes on quickly.

 

[johnno77]

yep cop a few injuries and all hell will break loose. depth what depth we struggle to field a competetive side to start with.

One of the most negative posts ever written. Newman a C grader?!? Do you even barrack for Richmond or go to the footy. Foley c grader? I remember very clearly how everyone wrote Shane Watson off and ridiculed his selection for the Ashes a few years back. He destroyed it and is now Australia's most important player.

Cotchin a future a grader?? WTF? Were you watching different games than me? Cotchin IS A grade already and i'll be putting money on him for the brownlow every year from now on to win it until he does.

Our list has holes in it no doubt but according to you, we're stuffed!

Fair dinkum.........

 

[deledio7]

Don't agree
Have watched some replays recently and some of Tucks mistakes were pretty bad. He probably made more obvious mistakes than Jacko in 2011 and he only played about 10 games. Grigg almost made as many bad mistakes in the dreamtime game as jacko done in the whole season.

Don't agree with what? The stats don't lie nor does that fact that Jackson wasn't even effective negating opposition mids this year. He was far worse than Tuck and should not be on our list. It is a blight on the currect administration that he has another contract. We have the worst midfield depth in the competition. Seriously concerning.

 

[coke_zero]

We can throw Tuck down deep forward. Big strong body will out muscle small/medium defenders and beat the tall defenders on a lead. Very good pair of hands and will add some more presure down there with his tackling.

 

[santa claws]

And you wonder why posters refer to you as being the most overly negative poster on this board. No team has a list filled with 22 AA and another 10 that could be if given the chance. Like every other team we need to find the right supporting cast that allows our stars to shine, rather than what we have had in recent years where our stars have had to also do the bulk of the grunt work as well.


In the past he did because there wasn't much else. Now that we do have options he can revert back to the role he should have been playing all along.

lol that old bug bear when theres no other choice throw up the old you cant have 22 aa's. simple fact is no one has mentioned aa's or assumes we can get 22.

we either have depth or we dont pretty simple. imo we dont.if people dont like that assesment well tough i think its accurate. what do you want me to say. wow our depth is okay its not true so why pussy foot around.
when injury hits next yr its one reason why we will struggle.

as one of few who actually advocates we value add players to try to improve the situation you know what i mean take what may be a sevicable player to replace the clear below standard player.

nope we dont have depth we have below standard players who come into the side as soon as injury hits. most of the time they replace underperforming players or unproven players.

listen to yourselves pretend its alright. connors jackson white edwards mcguane webberley derickx gourdis graham miller thats most of our depth right there and it is laughable.and here on this thread we have posters arguing about the merit of those in the 22.

good for you we have depth iyo. every time i hear some one say this i will beg to differ.
we dont have depth we have numbers.

 

[OnTheFool]

lol that old bug bear when theres no other choice throw up the old you cant have 22 aa's. simple fact is no one has mentioned aa's or assumes we can get 22.

we either have depth or we dont pretty simple. imo we dont.if people dont like that assesment well tough i think its accurate. what do you want me to say. wow our depth is okay its not true so why pussy foot around.
when injury hits next yr its one reason why we will struggle.

as one of few who actually advocates we value add players to try to improve the situation you know what i mean take what may be a sevicable player to replace the clear below standard player.

nope we dont have depth we have below standard players who come into the side as soon as injury hits. most of the time they replace underperforming players or unproven players.

listen to yourselves pretend its alright. connors jackson white edwards mcguane webberley derickx gourdis graham miller thats most of our depth right there and it is laughable.and here on this thread we have posters arguing about the merit of those in the 22.

good for you we have depth iyo. every time i hear some one say this i will beg to differ.
we dont have depth we have numbers.

Sure we are not deep when you compare us to Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn and Carlton, though we are in a better position than we were before Dimma started. Hence, we are heading in the right direction and there is reason to be optimistic.

You are a weird Richmond supporter because 99% of us are glass half full kind of guys... thats what makes us who we are!!! You're a realist who tries to tell it how it is, which I like, but sometimes you are too harsh. Its almost like you try to get us to take our heads out of the clouds... which granted, sometimes we need!

 

[Goldust]

Jacko wasn't that bad at all. Maybe you imagined alot of it in your sleep. At least he goes in too. When you see Grigg in the clear running to a loose ball, watch him just allow an opponent 5m behind just slide in and get the ball out to a team mate

IF Grigg lined up on Jackson he would have a field day!
Opposition clubs are not worried about Jackson getting the ball 20 plus tikes a game as it's turnover city!!