Richmond's struggle with interstate games

[Cincinnatus]

You didn’t answer anything with that dribble

So Richmond played 2 games at home despite being the lower ranked teams and neither were to MCG tenants.

An allowance that is available to precisely 4 sides out of 18.

So...yknow..there is that.

 

[HTT]

Weve won 3 of those grand finals - played 6

Won 2 against a vic non tenant 1 against another interstater - lost one against an interstater and lost both against tenants.

Counting games where the mcg has actually been neutral is dissimulation

So, once we remove teams who don't call the MCGH (note, things get very loose once we do this)

That means
2016
2007
1997
1994
1992
Don't count

NEW count: 6-5 in favour of victorian teams
Geez, that home ground advantage is really shining through.

 

[blue harvest]

Weve won 3 of those grand finals - played 6

Won 2 against a vic non tenant 1 against another interstater - lost one against an interstater and lost both against tenants.

Counting games where the mcg has actually been neutral is dissimulation

But in the 2 GFs you lost against tenants they had also beaten you in Perth. Maybe they won because they were better.

 

[Crows4Eva]

It's all well and good to moan and complain about how Vic clubs only have to travel 4-5 times while interstate clubs have to travel 10-11 times and how some clubs get to play at the MCG 10 times and others only 2-3 but the fact is there isn't a realistic alternative when you have 10 clubs based in Victoria.

I don't like it, it feels unfair when you see your club make a GF and they have to play against a side who plays there all the time and rarely travel but there's just no solution that isn't a logistical nightmare.

 

[tigertigertiger]

So Richmond played 2 games at home despite being the lower ranked teams and neither were to MCG tenants.

An allowance that is available to precisely 4 sides out of 18.

So...yknow..there is that.

You still haven’t answered, your current responses are not valid

 

[blue harvest]

No interstate team without allowancea and concessions have ever won, INCLUDING those teams who were higher ranked.

You should start a thread about it.

 

[Cincinnatus]

You still haven’t answered, your current responses are not valid

You havent got a question to answer

 

[Cincinnatus]

You should start a thread about it.

Why? This is the thread. I do have another idea though.

 

[RUNVS]

Seriously, what % increase in performance do opposition fans think the ‘G is worth to Richmond on GF day?

Easy to work out

Lets go with the 2017 season

Adelaide
At home - won 9, lost 3
Away - won 6, lost 3, 1 draw

So at home they had a winning percentage of 75% but away they had a winning percentage of 60%

Compare that to Richmond
At home - won 9, lost 2
Away - won 6, lost 5

So Richmond had a winning percentage of 82% at home and 55% away.

So by just playing the Grand Final at the MCG that is a 43% swing in favour of Richmond as it lowers Adelaide's winning to 60% (from 75%) and raises Richmond's winning percentage chance from 55% (what it should have been) to 82%.

A 43% swing in a Grand Final is huge.

 

[HTT]

How the hell do you think HGA is a thing in every game EXCEPT for the GF?

You think a concert pre-game and 40k corporates changes the fact one team has still travelled to play on a foreign ground compared to the other who has played 15 times on the ground?

I have told you that the 8 winning sides have had concessions and allowances. The fact you think another Vic team being just as good detracts from that is odd. The fact they didnt finish minor premiers is not relevant. Just because another Vic side was strong doesnt detract from their advantage. The fact they didnt take advantage of that advantage doesnt change the fact they held an advantage. An advantage overcome ONLY by sides with extra help. Never by teams without it.

No interstate team without allowancea and concessions have ever won, INCLUDING those teams who were higher ranked.

You reckon if the GF was played at AO last year the Tigers would get up? Seriously? Youve been pantsed both years at AO.

Go on, name the criteria. I bet you cant make a reasonable case.

Answer my question mate, how do concessions help you on GF day? They don't. They help you get a better team on the park, sure, but if they come in lower ranked that point's kinda moot isn't it? Suggestions like 'you have to be a 5 goal better team' are wrong.
Brisbane in 2001 were, across the season, marginally worse than Essendon (tenant). Won the GF by 5 goals.
In 2002 they were a considerably better team than Collingwood (tenant), but only won by 9 points on GF day.
It's almost like it's just whoever performs better
BUT GET THIS
In 2003 they were half a game worse than Collingwood (tenant) across the season, but won the GF by 8 goals
In 2017 Richmond (tenant) were half a game worse than Adelaide across the season, but won the GF by 8 goals

It's fine to say they had extra help, but you are trying to say the help made them simply far better than anyone - that HGA made the margin closer than what it should have been. But their H&A record suggests otherwise. It suggested they were about equal to their opposition - so they should theoretically lose the Grand Final if HGA was as important as it is made out to be. But they didn't.

 

[p5ych00n5]

Only someone benefitting from imbalance would find the need to say this.

I'm not saying imbalance doesn't exist, some clubs get the rub of the green more than others, but seriously if someone says eff the AFL, corrupt money driven blah blah who also actively still watches and throw money at the thing they despise reminds me of the saying along the lines the definition of insanity something something

 

[blue harvest]

The HGA for the GF is greatly diminished. It's a completely different ball game, crowd is more even and you have the 2 best sides, there's much more of a mental element involved too, some teams deal with it better, nothing to do with the ground.

The stats support this, it's 8 wins a piece for Vic vs NonVic GFs.

 

[JackOutback]

The HGA for the GF is greatly diminished. It's a completely different ball game, crowd is more even and you have the 2 best sides, there's much more of a mental element involved too, some teams deal with it better, nothing to do with the ground.

The stats support this, it's 8 wins a piece for Vic vs NonVic GFs.

It's diminished, not removed.

 

[blue harvest]

Why? This is the thread. I do have another idea though.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...thout-list-or-salary-cap-concessions.1183649/

 

[Cincinnatus]

Answer my question mate, how do concessions help you on GF day? They don't. They help you get a better team on the park, sure, but if they come in lower ranked that point's kinda moot isn't it? Suggestions like 'you have to be a 5 goal better team' are wrong.
Brisbane in 2001 were, across the season, marginally worse than Essendon (tenant). Won the GF by 5 goals.
In 2002 they were a considerably better team than Collingwood (tenant), but only won by 9 points on GF day.
It's almost like it's just whoever performs better
BUT GET THIS
In 2003 they were half a game worse than Collingwood (tenant) across the season, but won the GF by 8 goals
In 2017 Richmond (tenant) were half a game worse than Adelaide across the season, but won the GF by 8 goals

It's fine to say they had extra help, but you are trying to say the help made them simply far better than anyone - that HGA made the margin closer than what it should have been. But their H&A record suggests otherwise. It suggested they were about equal to their opposition - so they should theoretically lose the Grand Final if HGA was as important as it is made out to be. But they didn't.

Because the GF IS just like any other game - we just arbitrarily decide that the winner of this particular game is the winner of everything. The thing you keep either ignoring or failing to comprehend is that the fact interstate teams are playing away - THATS THE ADVANTAGE MCG tenants have.

Im not sure what you dont get about this - it isnt marginal and it doeant disappear because its suddenly a game with a differwnt name.

My point about teams with concessions is that they are better than they would have been otherwise. IT IS NOT RELATIVE TO HOW GOOD THE MCG TENANT TEAM IS. Im writing that in caps so you stop missing that point and then trying to put words in my mouth.

So no, it isnt a moot point.

Im looking at the data, and the data tells you that no side without concessions has beaten a Vicco team at their home state from hiw many attempts? Including the last 5 - 5! That goes from statistical anomaly to a pattern.

At the end of the day, there IS an inherent advantage to MCG tenant clubs. To deny it is to deny the idea of HGA which is preposterous.

It doesnt mean those advantages cant be overcome, BUT IT ISNT MARGINAL. Its huge.

Do you seriously think Richmond would win at AO? Id love to know your answer.

...so what about those criteria?

 

[Cincinnatus]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...thout-list-or-salary-cap-concessions.1183649/

And?

 

[tigertigertiger]

You havent got a question to answer

I asked you to enlighten me about how Richmond we’re gifted a flag, you have not done so

 

[Sir_Loin]

I'm not saying imbalance doesn't exist, some clubs get the rub of the green more than others, but seriously if someone says eff the AFL, corrupt money driven blah blah who also actively still watches and throw money at the thing they despise reminds me of the saying along the lines the definition of insanity something something

The perceived imbalance is mitigated through the handicapping of the draw. This is conveniently left out by the squealers and the bleaters.

 

[blue harvest]

And?

It was a joke, I thought everyone in this thread would know about that thread.

 

[Cincinnatus]

I asked you to enlighten me about how Richmond we’re gifted a flag, you have not done so

...you played your away finals at home. Thats a gift only 4 out of 18 teams can ever get. Well done.

 

[tigernsw]

Tiger fans, you're shit, Bradburying a flag doesn't make you great, Tic Toc, you get to play a real team at the G soon.

Really looking forward to playing Geelong in a few weeks Frank

 

[Cincinnatus]

It was a joke, I thought everyone in this thread would know about that thread.

When is your next show?

 

[tigertigertiger]

...you played your away finals at home. Thats a gift only 4 out of 18 teams can ever get. Well done.

That doesn’t gift a flag

 

[Heisenberg_]

...you played your away finals at home. Thats a gift only 4 out of 18 teams can ever get. Well done.

4 teams?
Try again, Sydney, GWS, Brisbane, Gold Coast and Etihad tenants can’t but some of them play home games at the MCG anyway nearly 50/50 split and Geelong who play home games at the MCG.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This is why Brisbane 2001-2004 is and for a very long time will be the greatest team ever