Summer RIO 2016 - Athletics (Track & Road events) 12th to 20th Aug

[Arbuckle]

I don't think you can use the word unprofessional in the same sentence with Bruce MaCavany. No way he can be described as that.

Sorry?

He is commentating athletics at the Olympics (which he has done since at least the 1980s iirc), and yet he needs to go looking for a rule book to acquaint himself with how they decide the winner of a race in a close finish ... how does that not fit the definition of the word "unprofessional"?

 

[Whiskers]

What a jump.
Pole vault going insane

 

[JackNah_8]

Sorry?

He is commentating athletics at the Olympics (which he has done since at least the 1980s iirc), and yet he needs to go looking for a rule book to acquaint himself with how they decide the winner of a race in a close finish ... how does that not fit the definition of the word "unprofessional"?

Someone like Bruce should know the rules and should've done his homework by reading the rules

 

[Arbuckle]

Someone like Bruce should know the rules and should've done his homework by reading the rules

Absolutely.

It's really just about the most basic rule there is in track events as well. It's even something most kids are taught about in sprinting at school ... and certainly anything beyond that. It's exactly why everybody gets told to dip their head when going over the line.

It's roughly akin to someone like Richie Benaud not knowing the rules around a run out in cricket.

 

[Pinnell]

Sorry?

He is commentating athletics at the Olympics (which he has done since at least the 1980s iirc), and yet he needs to go looking for a rule book to acquaint himself with how they decide the winner of a race in a close finish ... how does that not fit the definition of the word "unprofessional"?

How much sport have you watched in say, the last four decades that Bruce has been calling track and field, football, Melbourne cups etc?

 

[Hawthorn United]

Bruce is the most professional commentator this country has.

I guarantee he knows more about the rules than anyone else. What it shows is how rarely that kind of finish occurs that even he didn't know if that was legal. He did the right thing to check it, rather than what AFL commentators do, which is to criticise the umpires or decision makers without even knowing the rules.

 

[Arbuckle]

How much sport have you watched in say, the last four decades that Bruce has been calling track and field, football, Melbourne cups etc?

Plenty, as it happens.

Now maybe you can do me the courtesy of answering the question I asked you in my last post to you, please?

 

[Hawthorn United]

Oh here we go, always claiming a winner as "Aussie".

 

[Pinnell]

Plenty, as it happens.

Now maybe you can do me the courtesy of answering the question I asked you in my last post to you, please?

If you have seen and heard Bruce commentate over the journey you'd know he is the hardest working, most informed, versatile and professional commentator this country has ever had.

 

[Arbuckle]

Bruce is the most professional commentator this country has.

I guarantee he knows more about the rules than anyone else. What it shows is how rarely that kind of finish occurs that even he didn't know if that was legal. He did the right thing to check it, rather than what AFL commentators do, which is to criticise the umpires or decision makers without even knowing the rules.

You guarantee it? Really? I think there would be many commentators across sport (especially those who have played it at the top level) who would know "more about the rules" than him. Heck, even about 20 minutes after that race, I heard Hooker making a series of specific, expert comments about the finer points of the rules of pole vault.

(If AFL commentators don't know the rules of their sport, then of course that's unprofessional of them as well. It wouldn't mean the same criticism could not be levelled at anyone else in the same circumstances.)

And all of this is not even relevant to the point I made, anyway ... throw up some side argument if you like, that's fine. But, if you were listening at the time (were you?), the result of the 400m had already been declared long before Bruce's comments about the rule. There was really no need to go search for a rule book. It was already totally clear what had happened. As he was reading the words out of the rules, it also sounded to me like what he was saying was coming as almost some sort of surprise to him.

As others have said, this was also in the context of him clearly coming across as upset about the result and sounding like he was a bit of a sore loser about who had won.

 

[Arbuckle]

If you have seen and heard Bruce commentate over the journey you'd know he is the hardest working, most informed, versatile and professional commentator this country has ever had.

So is it that you (a) can't or (b) don't want to answer my question?

 

[Hawthorn United]

You guarantee it? Really? I think there would be many commentators across sport (especially those who have played it at the top level) who would know "more about the rules" than him. Heck, even about 20 minutes after that race, I heard Hooker making a series of specific, expert comments about the finer points of the rules of pole vault.

(If AFL commentators don't know the rules of their sport, then of course that's unprofessional of them as well. It wouldn't mean the same criticism could not be levelled at anyone else in the same circumstances.)

And all of this is not even relevant to the point I made, anyway ... throw up some side argument if you like, that's fine. But, if you were listening at the time (were you?), the result of the 400m had already been declared long before Bruce's comments about the rule. There was really no need to go search for a rule book. It was already totally clear what had happened. As he was reading the words out of the rules, it also sounded to me like what he was saying was coming as almost some sort of surprise to him.

As others have said, this was also in the context of him clearly coming across as upset about the result and sounding like he was a bit of a sore loser about who had won.

I did forget to include, across various sports that he commentates.

I didn't catch it live as I went to lunch, but heard him asking questions whether diving across was legal or not, so it seemed more like a legit question from him than crying foul.

 

[U2tigers]

That pole vault finish was some great veiwing.
Really enjoyed that.

 

[Arbuckle]

I did forget to include, across various sports that he commentates.

I didn't catch it live as I went to lunch, but heard him asking questions whether diving across was legal or not, so it seemed more like a legit question from him than crying foul.

Again, I wasn't saying anything about his career as a whole. Not sure why we need to have a side discussion about that. I was talking about his commentary about a specific incident today.

Also, your comment about whether diving is legal is part of my whole point. Why does he have no idea about this while doing the biggest possible commentary job there is for an Australian on sprint races at the Olympics? And how does he not know something so basic about sprint racing when it has been something at the very core of his specialist profession for decades?

 

[Feerits Elf]

surprised it wasn't one he didnt know.

Don't be, because it was one he didn't know.

 

[Hawthorn United]

Again, I wasn't saying anything about his career as a whole. Not sure why we need to have a side discussion about that. I was talking about his commentary about a specific incident today.

Also, your comment about whether diving is legal is part of my whole point. Why does he have no idea about this while doing the biggest possible commentary job there is for an Australian on sprint races at the Olympics? And how does he not know something so basic about sprint racing when it has been something at the very core of his specialist profession for decades?

We can both only guess and assume why he didn't.

Tamsyn was in the box too wasn't she, and she was an athlete. Did she tell him what the rule was before he went to check it? That's one of her purposes of being there. To give insight into the events and naunces which lay people won't know.

 

[Arbuckle]

We can both only guess and assume why he didn't..

I think, in a roundabout way, we're now somewhere near agreeing with one another. It's unthinkable (and, ahem, unprofessional) that he doesn't know something that really shouldn't even need to be second-guessed.

Tamsyn was in the box too wasn't she, and she was an athlete. Did she tell him what the rule was before he went to check it? That's one of her purposes of being there. To give insight into the events and naunces which lay people won't know.

Yes, she was. That also troubled me too. I obviously don't know how much licence she has to interrupt or talk over the top of Bruce or look like she is making a fool of him ... but yes, I found it surprising she didn't say more as well.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Why does he have no idea about this while doing the biggest possible commentary job there is for an Australian on sprint races at the Olympics? And how does he not know something so basic about sprint racing when it has been something at the very core of his specialist profession for decades?

I’ll have a crack.

Bruce is arguably not as knowledgeable as he likes to make out. He seems to specialise in useless “colour” facts that have no bearing upon the outcome of a given athletic competition (Serena’s mother enjoys painting her fingernails yellow, that kick by Cyril was the 157th on his left foot this year, Jeremy Warriner has a dog named Toby etc.) but his knowledge beyond this in a given sport doesn’t extend too far beyond that of the mug punter. So when it comes to athletics he’s got plenty of facts and figures to give some context to the casual viewer who only ever looks at track and field once every four years, but for those intimately involved with the sport they’re largely irrelevant.

To my knowledge Bruce has not played sport at any professional or amateur level since juniors. It’s also unclear what sports he participated in as a junior – he’s from Adelaide and there’s a photo floating about of him in an under 8s footy jumper so I’m going to speculate that he played Australian Rules football and cricket. So all of his knowledge of a given sport has been learned in theory rather than in practice. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, as there are plenty of professional callers who have never taken part in an athletic competition, as well as plenty of former athletes who make terrible callers. But things that are inherent to a sport, and learned by participant immersion in that sport, aren’t readily apparent to Bruce – he needs to have learnt them by explanation (in many cases from a text). So the analogy of Richie Benaud not knowing the laws of cricket as they relate to a runout doesn’t quite fit.

It’s possible that Bruce skimmed over the relevant IAAF rule about the torso crossing the line and did not retain it, or convinced himself that he knew better. But something that is inherently known by any person who trained in athletics competitions from juniors is not inherently known by Bruce.

Bruce’s first love was horseracing, where a horse is deemed to have crossed the finishing line as soon as any part of its body (invariably the nose) reaches the vertical plane of the nearer edge of the line. Perhaps Bruce deluded himself over the course of his professional career that, by extension, a human racing on a track is deemed to have crossed the finishing line as soon as any part of their body (foot, hand etc.) reaches that plane.

That Bruce is the best this country has got is less a reflection of the virtues of Bruce and more a reflection of the way professional commentators are trained and recruited in what is (by comparison to other markets throughout the world) a relatively unsophisticated television sports broadcasting landscape. Bear in mind that Bruce chased the Olympics coverage: he started at Seven when they had Australian rights to Olympics television coverage, then crossed to Ten for 1984 and 1988 (where he made his name), before jumping ship to Seven again when they won the TV rights for 1992 and beyond. So the reason Bruce has the job is that Bruce has always had the job.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The Dive for Gold. It was a great 397m run by Shaunae Miller and a very lucky 3m dive. I have never seen a dive like that to win. Like like a combo of exhaustion, stumble, over leaning forward and shear luck.

Felix was going to be the first women to win 5 gold medals in athletics but she wasn't the first past the post in terms of torso but probably was the firt past the post in terms of both legs.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Oh here we go, always claiming a winner as "Aussie".

Oh what's that you've holidayed in Australia before? You must love Australia like it's your new home. Citizenship on its way!

 

[Feerits Elf]

I have never seen a dive like that to win.

Happens a fair bit at US Olympic trials. David Neville did it to win bronze at Beijing:

Felix probably was the first past the post in terms of both legs.

Irrelevant to the question of crossing the finishing line though.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

reminds me of Rudisha in London. clearly the run of the meet for me but overshadowed by the colossus that is Bolt.

same applies here. i've watched the 400 replay you posted about 6 times and i still cant believe it. he goes out hard with no idea where the rest of the field is and actually accelerates down the home straight. all this with a smooth, almost perfect form, making it look effortless like all the greats do (with the exception of MJ)

Bolt was very, very good. WVN was simply incredible

The World Record for 400m progression since Mexico City 1968 Olympics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_400_metres_world_record_progression
and
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_400ok.htm

33     43.86A     Lee Evans                      USA     25.02.47    1      Ciudad de México            18.10.1968
then 20 years later
3      43.29      Harry Reynolds                 USA     08.06.64    1rA    Zürich                      17.08.1988
then 11 years later
2      43.18      Michael Johnson                USA     13.09.67    1      Sevilla                     26.08.1999
then 17 years later
1      43.03      Wayde van Niekerk              RSA     15.07.92    1      Rio de Janeiro              14.08.2016

so on average, over 48 years its been lowered by 0.0173 seconds per year. This is why it should go down as one of the great athletics records. Its just a pity it happened on Bolt day so that it didnt get all the attention for the non athletics track and field sports fan.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Happens a fair bit at US Olympic trials. David Neville did it to win bronze at Beijing:

Irrelevant to the question of crossing the finishing line though.

But from 3 m out?

 

[outabounds]

Haven't heard Bruce's call but for what its worth, I reckon you shouldn't be able to win like that. As for all the Bruce haters- imagine how boring it would be having someone call things without a bit of passion. He has been the ultimate professional over the journey.

 

[Feerits Elf]

But from 3 m out?

Yep