Player Watch Rising Star 2022 Discussion

Who wins the 2022 Rising Star?

  • Total voters
    436

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Dominic03 said:
No i mentioned that more so because others have said the same thing.

And yes it probably leads to it, but AFLCA is much less midfield based than say the brownlow.

I would much rather listen to coaches around the league, or even umpires in the brownlow than media persons who do the rising star.

It just makes more sense, people who are involved with footy and understand the game because they run a full team and most have played aswell.

Media just talk, most wouldn't watch every game either.
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No it doesn't. The amount of people watching/viewing each game will have a better insight (including watching replays), than 2 coaches who have a lot to be occupied with during gameday. The least of which is probably nominating player votes from both teams.

The simply fact that every person who was on the panel, as well as every person in the general media (and we have plenty of past players), who have been able to view the games on multiple occasions have determined Nick Daicos as teh overwhelming choice with DeKonig second is far more credible.

But hey, Newcombe is a very good player and had a great season. You can't say the coaches votes are more credible because they simply aren't.
 
VinnieB said:
No it doesn't. The amount of people watching/viewing each game will have a better insight (including watching replays), than 2 coaches who have a lot to be occupied with during gameday. The least of which is probably nominating player votes from both teams.

The simply fact that every person who was on the panel, as well as every person in the general media (and we have plenty of past players), who have been able to view the games on multiple occasions have determined Nick Daicos as teh overwhelming choice with DeKonig second is far more credible.

But hey, Newcombe is a very good player and had a great season. You can't say the coaches votes are more credible because they simply aren't.
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Vinnie.

Two coaches watch the entire game, this is all 18 coaches, through out all 23 rounds of football. There is no game not seen by a coach and not voted on.

The chance a media person doesn't watch every game every week is higher, much higher.
 
VinnieB said:
No it doesn't. The amount of people watching/viewing each game will have a better insight (including watching replays), than 2 coaches who have a lot to be occupied with during gameday. The least of which is probably nominating player votes from both teams.

The simply fact that every person who was on the panel, as well as every person in the general media (and we have plenty of past players), who have been able to view the games on multiple occasions have determined Nick Daicos as teh overwhelming choice with DeKonig second is far more credible.

But hey, Newcombe is a very good player and had a great season. You can't say the coaches votes are more credible because they simply aren't.
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Luke Darcy knows more than Craig McRae ? That cant be your argument.
 

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HairyO said:
Luke Darcy knows more than Craig McRae ? That cant be your argument.
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you are only looking at 1 person.

You have each of the panel (who I'm sure are watching the games) on top of every other person in the media.
They are overwhelming in their view on who are 1 and 2. No-one had any different. Not even your beloved Luke Hodge.

As has been pointed out, Nick Daicos influences games. He stepped up during games that were decided by 1 or 2 goals.
Collingwood are ranked very highly from scores from defense. Daicos is a main contributor of this.

And let's look at a key defenders. Rarely recognised as much as midfielders who play without the same responsibility.
On top of that, play in a top team, and chances are you are battling against very strong players from your team for top 5 players on the day.

Look at Sicily. Accumulates alot of the ball as a defender, yet other key position players are considered ahead of him. How many votes did May get? Petracca, Oliver, Gawn etc, are top shelf players that capture plenty of coaches votes as we have seen. Yet May, is considered one of their most importnat players, and rightfully All-Australian.

Coaches votes are flawed. Very limited. Even the disparity in a game where 1 coach may award a player 3 votes while the other may not award that player even 1 vote.

This at least acknowledges the best players each week over the season, not simply based on how they played in a few games v teammates who may not be that great. Hawthorn won 8 games for the season. As a midfielder, Newcombe was being compared against some ordinary midfielders as teammates. So, of course he would stand out. Throw Newcombe in Melbourne's team (or even any of the top 8 teams) and he would probably be fortunate to get more than a handful of votes.
 
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VinnieB said:
you are only looking at 1 person.

You have each of the panel (who I'm sure are watching the games) on top of every other person in the media.
They are overwhelming in their view on who are 1 and 2. No-one had any different. Not even your beloved Luke Hodge.

As has been pointed out, Nick Daicos influences games. He stepped up during games that were decided by 1 or 2 goals.
Collingwood are ranked very highly from scores from defense. Daicos is a main contributor of this.

And let's look at a key defenders. Rarely recognised as much as midfielders who play without the same responsibility.
On top of that, play in a top team, and chances are you are battling against very strong players from your team for top 5 players on the day.

Look at Sicily. Accumulates alot of the ball as a defender, yet other key position players are considered ahead of him. How many votes did May get? Petracca, Oliver, Gawn etc, are top shelf players that capture plenty of coaches votes as we have seen. Yet May, is considered one of their most importnat players, and rightfully All-Australian.

Coaches votes are flawed. Very limited. Even the disparity in a game where 1 coach may award a player 3 votes while the other may not award that player even 1 vote.

This at least acknowledges the best over players each week over the season, not simply based on how they played in a few games v teammates who may not be that great. Hawthorn won 8 games for the season. As a midfielder, Newcombe was being compared against some ordinary midfielders as teammates. So, of course he would stand out. Throw Newcombe in Melbourne's team (or even any of the top 8 teams) and he probably be fortunate to get more than a handful of votes.
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You can't say anyone is ahead of Sicily without breaking a grin or smile, or full blown laughing.

All 3 rising stars Newcombe, SDK & Daicos were worthy winners, not much seperating them, 1 played in a poor team, 2 played in top 4 teams which means more people watch their games I.e Media.

Coaches votes, every coach votes and watches the game, their opinions are ahead of media persons.

& i won't even bother arguing Sicily, not the place and you've clearly got no idea.
 
Dominic03 said:
You can't say anyone is ahead of Sicily without breaking a grin or smile, or full blown laughing.

All 3 rising stars Newcombe, SDK & Daicos were worthy winners, not much seperating them, 1 played in a poor team, 2 played in top 4 teams which means more people watch their games I.e Media.

Coaches votes, every coach votes and watches the game, their opinions are ahead of media persons.

& i won't even bother arguing Sicily, not the place and you've clearly got no idea.
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No. Daicos was streets ahead of Newcombe.
May is better than Sicily, even though he didn't receive as many coaches votes.

You probably think the coaches should judge the Brownlow. Laughable.
Personally, I would have had no issue with Hardwick winning out against Maynard for All-Australian. I thought he has been excellent. But probably didn't feature in as many coaches votes as other players from Hawthorn. Only received coaches votes in 3 games for the season. Rarely beaten.
 
VinnieB said:
No. Daicos was streets ahead of Newcombe.
May is better than Sicily, even though he didn't receive as many coaches votes.

You probably think the coaches should judge the Brownlow. Laughable.
Personally, I would have had no issue with Hardwick winning out against Maynard for All-Australian. I thought he has been excellent. But probably didn't feature in as many coaches votes as other players from Hawthorn. Only received coaches votes in 3 games for the season. Rarely beaten.
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I'm gonna ignore the AA comments, because it's not the place.

But Daicos isn't streets ahead.

Coaches votes have Newcombe ahead by a fair way, he won the AFLCA Young Player because of this, Daicos eligible and didn't make the top 3.

Newcombe had a fair bit higher of a champion data player rating.

The stats say it also.
Newcombe has less possessions per game than Daicos, less rebounds.

Daicos also takes more kickouts, and plays in defense (bit of wing and hf during the odd game).

Newcombe shouldered a midfield all year, he won more footy himself at the coal face, more clearances, contested possessions.

He got the ball forward more, more metres gained despite less disposals, more inside 50s, more goal assists (double), more score involvements.

Now Daicos is very good and it's why they're close, because Daicos is a beautiful kick, with a license to run off HB and he looks phenomenal when doing it, but to disrespect Newcombe like that, is stupid.

SDK is also very good, he intercepts and spoils and is rarely beaten as a key defender in his 2nd season, he's really unbelievably good as a key defender already with the perfect footy iq to know when to spoil or intercept, the body contact and all. He's athletically freakish and is a big tall key defender, they're hard to find.

All 3 players are very good, all 3 players deserved it.
 
Dominic03 said:
I'm gonna ignore the AA comments, because it's not the place.

But Daicos isn't streets ahead.

Coaches votes have Newcombe ahead by a fair way, he won the AFLCA Young Player because of this, Daicos eligible and didn't make the top 3.

Newcombe had a fair bit higher of a champion data player rating.

The stats say it also.
Newcombe has less possessions per game than Daicos, less rebounds.

Daicos also takes more kickouts, and plays in defense (bit of wing and hf during the odd game).

Newcombe shouldered a midfield all year, he won more footy himself at the coal face, more clearances, contested possessions.

He got the ball forward more, more metres gained despite less disposals, more inside 50s, more goal assists (double), more score involvements.

Now Daicos is very good and it's why they're close, because Daicos is a beautiful kick, with a license to run off HB and he looks phenomenal when doing it, but to disrespect Newcombe like that, is stupid.

SDK is also very good, he intercepts and spoils and is rarely beaten as a key defender in his 2nd season, he's really unbelievably good as a key defender already with the perfect footy iq to know when to spoil or intercept, the body contact and all. He's athletically freakish and is a big tall key defender, they're hard to find.

All 3 players are very good, all 3 players deserved it.
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Do I seriously need to go through how ridiculous that data rating is again????
When you compare Newcombe to Daicos it's hilarious. Inside 50s when one plays midfield, the other half back. The fact Daicos has similar score involvements when he plays in the back half shows how ridiculously good he is. Take a look at the heat maps and you'll see Newcombe hovers in the centre. Daicos from the backline. Daicos had the most intercepts between forward and defensive arcs at one stage, and as your favourite Champion Data pointed out recently, he is ranked in the top 3 for 'clutch' performance.

Pies are one of the top teams from scoring from defence. Who do you think leads this? On the weekend we scored over 30 points from the backline while Carlton scored 1 point. Daicos again was instrumental in that. Did you see what he made happen in that last quarter? Go watch it again and you'll see him starting the chain for a couple of goals, including the last by Elliot. Newcombe is a bulldog no doubt and uses his strength (his size for his age is well developed), but he lacks the same class. He doesn't go for those dangerous kicks from the back half turning defence to attack. And his kicks into forward 50 are either very good, or extremely ordinary (that's being generous).

The Rising Star winner is well deserved. Absolutely unanimous by not only the panel, but every single person who analyses the games each week. It's predominantly Hawthorn fans on here who have a problem with it.
 
VinnieB said:
Do I seriously need to go through how ridiculous that data rating is again????
When you compare Newcombe to Daicos it's hilarious. Inside 50s when one plays midfield, the other half back. The fact Daicos has similar score involvements when he plays in the back half shows how ridiculously good he is. Take a look at the heat maps and you'll see Newcombe hovers in the centre. Daicos from the backline. Daicos had the most intercepts between forward and defensive arcs at one stage, and as your favourite Champion Data pointed out recently, he is ranked in the top 3 for 'clutch' performance.

Pies are one of the top teams from scoring from defence. Who do you think leads this? On the weekend we scored over 30 points from the backline while Carlton scored 1 point. Daicos again was instrumental in that. Did you see what he made happen in that last quarter? Go watch it again and you'll see him starting the chain for a couple of goals, including the last by Elliot. Newcombe is a bulldog no doubt and uses his strength (his size for his age is well developed), but he lacks the same class. He doesn't go for those dangerous kicks from the back half turning defence to attack. And his kicks into forward 50 are either very good, or extremely ordinary (that's being generous).

The Rising Star winner is well deserved. Absolutely unanimous by not only the panel, but every single person who analyses the games each week. It's predominantly Hawthorn fans on here who have a problem with it.
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How many disposals per game would daicos trail newcombe by if we didn't include kick ins? He has total 3.5 disposals/ game more atm, would he take 3.5 + more kick outs per game? Possession show a much closer picture when excluding kick ins (possessions dont include kicks off the ground or kick ins where as disposals do):
ND 26 disposals 23.6 possessions/ game
JN 22.5 disposals 22.9 possessions / game

On disposal, newcombe has a good boot and hits up some very nice kicks both inside 50 and around the ground. If you think daicos doesnt shank kicks as well, then you have selective memory. Difference between daicos and newcombe's kicking is that one gets the majority of his possessions uncontested/kicking in and the other gets more contested.

On your point about midfielders should have more score involvements, well by the same account defenders should have better defensive stats.... but have you seen daicos' defensive stats? They don't indicate that he is a great defender.
 

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Dominic03 said:
Ikr, rising star means nothing.

AFLCA Young Player tho, coaches are smart.
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I tried to tell you that you'd be disappointed.

The obvious was staring you in the face.
 
* me I’ve heard it all now, the coaches who watch and scrutinize every second of their game, know the tactics and every little stat that accompanies it, then reviews the game in depth, know less than media personalities and blokes who probably don’t watch a qtr of the games every weekend, boy oh boy wowiee that’s a different take
 
That's it I've heard enough, I'm writing in to the board to sack Sam and to high the true genius if football, Mark Robinson, I mean he is chief sports writer of the herald sun a popular media outlet.
 
Dominic03 said:
AFLCA goes based off each game, which are added to a collective (body of work) end of the season.
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Generally, what happens with this flawed system in the AFLCA, is when a team finishes bottom 6, the list isn't even in terms of output, so the votes usually are accumulated by the "default" candidate which is Nuke in this case.

Not necessarily a way to judge output comparatively, as same player in another team might not necessarily gain the same number of votes due to teammates taking those votes.
 
Congratulations to ND. Worthy and deserving winner. Should have at least made an AA squad selection as well, and if the AA team is anything to go by (Saad LMAO) should have had a chance to make the team.

Happy that Duke took out the AFLCA award. Would be great for his confidence to know the coaches opinions of him.
 
Dominic03 said:
You can't say anyone is ahead of Sicily without breaking a grin or smile, or full blown laughing.

All 3 rising stars Newcombe, SDK & Daicos were worthy winners, not much seperating them, 1 played in a poor team, 2 played in top 4 teams which means more people watch their games I.e Media.

Coaches votes, every coach votes and watches the game, their opinions are ahead of media persons.

& i won't even bother arguing Sicily, not the place and you've clearly got no idea.
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It's also fair to say Daicos had extra mayo put on any game by the media due to his name and Club.
 
Chief Ten Beers said:
Generally, what happens with this flawed system in the AFLCA, is when a team finishes bottom 6, the list isn't even in terms of output, so the votes usually are accumulated by the "default" candidate which is Nuke in this case.

Not necessarily a way to judge output comparatively, as same player in another team might not necessarily gain the same number of votes due to teammates taking those votes.
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The more you lose the less likely you are for votes. Better teams who win usually have more coaches representation.
 
Dominic03 said:
It’s a joke Jack, I don’t really care but Jai won the AFLCA award and Nick won his. Twice. SDK 0? Hehe 🙃
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Mate you spent the best part of 4 months trying to convince yourself of something that was plainly obvious was never going to happen. I did try and tell you DeKoning would come 2nd.

And yes, you do care, you've shown that throughout the thread.
 
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